TECH: Gottlieb Countdown Drop Targets won't reset

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi! I am working on a Gottlieb System 1 Countdown.

When the game turns on and after the 5 second reset, the Q solenoid fires
and it causes the top right bank of drop targets to reset but not the other
3 sets of drop targets.

There are 2 2AMP SB fuses that the 4 drop target reset soenoids go to. Three
of them (the ones that won't reset) have a blue power wire and go to the
fuse on the right. The solenoid that does reset goes to the fuse on the left
by itself. Is there supposed to be two fuses like this?

Both 2AMP SB fuses work.

There is continuity on the power wires between all solenoids to all other
solenoids and to the two fuses.

There is continuity between each of the other wires to each solenoid and the
bottom switch on the Q solenoid.

If a take a wire and connect it (not from the power wire but the control
wire) from the working solenoid to any of the non-working solenoids and move
the Q switches, the other solenoid fires.

Since all other solenoids fire when I do this, I know that all of the
solenoids are good.

I would just like to connect a wire between the four solenoids and let it
work, but I would not be fixing the problem.

When I test the voltage on the solenoid when the Q switch is triggered, the
working solenoid and the non-working ones show a drop in power from about 9
volts to 5 or 6 volts when the switch is made.

Hopefully it is simple, but I cannot see it.

Thanks
Michael

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sounds like you have a transistor out on the solenoid driver board,
either the metal 2N 3055 on one of the 2N 6043's.

zTim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Michael,

The wiring set up that you described is correct. Being that there is a
transistor that controls each of the 3 drop target banks, I would suspect
the power wire, fuse, and fuse holder to the 3 banks of drop targets. Do you
have power at the fuse, on both ends?

Tim

"Michael Belofsky" <mbelofsky@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1PqdnVxEkoQxDYLeRVn-1g@adelphia.com...
> Hi! I am working on a Gottlieb System 1 Countdown.
>
> When the game turns on and after the 5 second reset, the Q solenoid fires
> and it causes the top right bank of drop targets to reset but not the
> other 3 sets of drop targets.
>
> There are 2 2AMP SB fuses that the 4 drop target reset soenoids go to.
> Three of them (the ones that won't reset) have a blue power wire and go to
> the fuse on the right. The solenoid that does reset goes to the fuse on
> the left by itself. Is there supposed to be two fuses like this?
>
> Both 2AMP SB fuses work.
>
> There is continuity on the power wires between all solenoids to all other
> solenoids and to the two fuses.
>
> There is continuity between each of the other wires to each solenoid and
> the bottom switch on the Q solenoid.
>
> If a take a wire and connect it (not from the power wire but the control
> wire) from the working solenoid to any of the non-working solenoids and
> move the Q switches, the other solenoid fires.
>
> Since all other solenoids fire when I do this, I know that all of the
> solenoids are good.
>
> I would just like to connect a wire between the four solenoids and let it
> work, but I would not be fixing the problem.
>
> When I test the voltage on the solenoid when the Q switch is triggered,
> the working solenoid and the non-working ones show a drop in power from
> about 9 volts to 5 or 6 volts when the switch is made.
>
> Hopefully it is simple, but I cannot see it.
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Also I think there is at least one transistor under the PF that's pre
driven by a smaller transistor on the driver board - either might be
out (the driver board one or the under playfield one)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks!
There seems to be one transistor that controls all 4 solenoids? Is this a
correct assumption? If so, then the transistor is working.

When Q resets, is it causing power to go directly to the 4 solenoids or is
it going through the transistor?

I believe I have power to the fuse that controls the 3 drop targets at both
ends but will need to check. THe machine is not at my house.

Why did Gottlieb split up the wiring like this? 3 solenoids to one fuse and
1 to another fuse?

Thanks
Michael

"Pinball Parts Plus" <PinballPartsPlus@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:vOidnTDZBOBfXILeRVn-pA@comcast.com...
> Michael,
>
> The wiring set up that you described is correct. Being that there is a
> transistor that controls each of the 3 drop target banks, I would suspect
> the power wire, fuse, and fuse holder to the 3 banks of drop targets. Do
> you have power at the fuse, on both ends?
>
> Tim
>
> "Michael Belofsky" <mbelofsky@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:1PqdnVxEkoQxDYLeRVn-1g@adelphia.com...
>> Hi! I am working on a Gottlieb System 1 Countdown.
>>
>> When the game turns on and after the 5 second reset, the Q solenoid fires
>> and it causes the top right bank of drop targets to reset but not the
>> other 3 sets of drop targets.
>>
>> There are 2 2AMP SB fuses that the 4 drop target reset soenoids go to.
>> Three of them (the ones that won't reset) have a blue power wire and go
>> to the fuse on the right. The solenoid that does reset goes to the fuse
>> on the left by itself. Is there supposed to be two fuses like this?
>>
>> Both 2AMP SB fuses work.
>>
>> There is continuity on the power wires between all solenoids to all other
>> solenoids and to the two fuses.
>>
>> There is continuity between each of the other wires to each solenoid and
>> the bottom switch on the Q solenoid.
>>
>> If a take a wire and connect it (not from the power wire but the control
>> wire) from the working solenoid to any of the non-working solenoids and
>> move the Q switches, the other solenoid fires.
>>
>> Since all other solenoids fire when I do this, I know that all of the
>> solenoids are good.
>>
>> I would just like to connect a wire between the four solenoids and let it
>> work, but I would not be fixing the problem.
>>
>> When I test the voltage on the solenoid when the Q switch is triggered,
>> the working solenoid and the non-working ones show a drop in power from
>> about 9 volts to 5 or 6 volts when the switch is made.
>>
>> Hopefully it is simple, but I cannot see it.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> There seems to be one transistor that controls all 4 solenoids? Is this a
> correct assumption? If so, then the transistor is working.

NO! There are transistors that control each of the drop target banks. In
fact 2 of the 4 drop target banks are controlled by 2 transistors, a small
lamp transistor (pre-driver) and an under playfield transistor. I believe
the problem is with the power to the drop targets being that you having a
problem with the 3 drop target banks that get power from a single fuse. It
is not likely that the transistors to all 3 drop target banks are bad.

> When Q resets, is it causing power to go directly to the 4 solenoids or is
> it going through the transistor?

Yes, the transistors provide the ground to the solenoids. There should be
power at the fuse all the time during game play.

> I believe I have power to the fuse that controls the 3 drop targets at
> both ends but will need to check. The machine is not at my house.

And you should have power on 1 lug of each coil.

> Why did Gottlieb split up the wiring like this? 3 solenoids to one fuse
> and 1 to another fuse?

Don't know. I think the important part is that they wanted the 2 drop
targets with under playfield transistors to be on separate fuses.

> Thanks
> Michael
>
> "Pinball Parts Plus" <PinballPartsPlus@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:vOidnTDZBOBfXILeRVn-pA@comcast.com...
>> Michael,
>>
>> The wiring set up that you described is correct. Being that there is a
>> transistor that controls each of the 3 drop target banks, I would suspect
>> the power wire, fuse, and fuse holder to the 3 banks of drop targets. Do
>> you have power at the fuse, on both ends?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> "Michael Belofsky" <mbelofsky@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:1PqdnVxEkoQxDYLeRVn-1g@adelphia.com...
>>> Hi! I am working on a Gottlieb System 1 Countdown.
>>>
>>> When the game turns on and after the 5 second reset, the Q solenoid
>>> fires and it causes the top right bank of drop targets to reset but not
>>> the other 3 sets of drop targets.
>>>
>>> There are 2 2AMP SB fuses that the 4 drop target reset soenoids go to.
>>> Three of them (the ones that won't reset) have a blue power wire and go
>>> to the fuse on the right. The solenoid that does reset goes to the fuse
>>> on the left by itself. Is there supposed to be two fuses like this?
>>>
>>> Both 2AMP SB fuses work.
>>>
>>> There is continuity on the power wires between all solenoids to all
>>> other solenoids and to the two fuses.
>>>
>>> There is continuity between each of the other wires to each solenoid and
>>> the bottom switch on the Q solenoid.
>>>
>>> If a take a wire and connect it (not from the power wire but the control
>>> wire) from the working solenoid to any of the non-working solenoids and
>>> move the Q switches, the other solenoid fires.
>>>
>>> Since all other solenoids fire when I do this, I know that all of the
>>> solenoids are good.
>>>
>>> I would just like to connect a wire between the four solenoids and let
>>> it work, but I would not be fixing the problem.
>>>
>>> When I test the voltage on the solenoid when the Q switch is triggered,
>>> the working solenoid and the non-working ones show a drop in power from
>>> about 9 volts to 5 or 6 volts when the switch is made.
>>>
>>> Hopefully it is simple, but I cannot see it.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Michael

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I had a Gottlieb CounterForce where the large drop target assembly would not
reset properly, (and some other issues) and found a bad bridge rectifier;
check that.
Steve Schukei
"Pinball Parts Plus" <PinballPartsPlus@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:9O6dnR4RoNLbt73eRVn-vA@comcast.com...
>> There seems to be one transistor that controls all 4 solenoids? Is this a
>> correct assumption? If so, then the transistor is working.
>
> NO! There are transistors that control each of the drop target banks. In
> fact 2 of the 4 drop target banks are controlled by 2 transistors, a small
> lamp transistor (pre-driver) and an under playfield transistor. I believe
> the problem is with the power to the drop targets being that you having a
> problem with the 3 drop target banks that get power from a single fuse. It
> is not likely that the transistors to all 3 drop target banks are bad.
>
>> When Q resets, is it causing power to go directly to the 4 solenoids or
>> is it going through the transistor?
>
> Yes, the transistors provide the ground to the solenoids. There should be
> power at the fuse all the time during game play.
>
>> I believe I have power to the fuse that controls the 3 drop targets at
>> both ends but will need to check. The machine is not at my house.
>
> And you should have power on 1 lug of each coil.
>
>> Why did Gottlieb split up the wiring like this? 3 solenoids to one fuse
>> and 1 to another fuse?
>
> Don't know. I think the important part is that they wanted the 2 drop
> targets with under playfield transistors to be on separate fuses.
>
>> Thanks
>> Michael
>>
>> "Pinball Parts Plus" <PinballPartsPlus@comcast.com> wrote in message
>> news:vOidnTDZBOBfXILeRVn-pA@comcast.com...
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> The wiring set up that you described is correct. Being that there is a
>>> transistor that controls each of the 3 drop target banks, I would
>>> suspect the power wire, fuse, and fuse holder to the 3 banks of drop
>>> targets. Do you have power at the fuse, on both ends?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> "Michael Belofsky" <mbelofsky@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1PqdnVxEkoQxDYLeRVn-1g@adelphia.com...
>>>> Hi! I am working on a Gottlieb System 1 Countdown.
>>>>
>>>> When the game turns on and after the 5 second reset, the Q solenoid
>>>> fires and it causes the top right bank of drop targets to reset but not
>>>> the other 3 sets of drop targets.
>>>>
>>>> There are 2 2AMP SB fuses that the 4 drop target reset soenoids go to.
>>>> Three of them (the ones that won't reset) have a blue power wire and go
>>>> to the fuse on the right. The solenoid that does reset goes to the fuse
>>>> on the left by itself. Is there supposed to be two fuses like this?
>>>>
>>>> Both 2AMP SB fuses work.
>>>>
>>>> There is continuity on the power wires between all solenoids to all
>>>> other solenoids and to the two fuses.
>>>>
>>>> There is continuity between each of the other wires to each solenoid
>>>> and the bottom switch on the Q solenoid.
>>>>
>>>> If a take a wire and connect it (not from the power wire but the
>>>> control wire) from the working solenoid to any of the non-working
>>>> solenoids and move the Q switches, the other solenoid fires.
>>>>
>>>> Since all other solenoids fire when I do this, I know that all of the
>>>> solenoids are good.
>>>>
>>>> I would just like to connect a wire between the four solenoids and let
>>>> it work, but I would not be fixing the problem.
>>>>
>>>> When I test the voltage on the solenoid when the Q switch is triggered,
>>>> the working solenoid and the non-working ones show a drop in power from
>>>> about 9 volts to 5 or 6 volts when the switch is made.
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully it is simple, but I cannot see it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Michael
>
>