News Tested: AMD's Windows 11 Patch Wins Some, Loses Some

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larkspur

larkspur

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In fact, when measured as a geometric mean of all of our game tests, the patches were a wash.
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Yikes! You guys are gonna take some heat from the AMD fanbois if you end up comparing AMD vs. Intel with both on Win 11 for the upcoming Alder Lake reviews... This certainly won't help with their conspiracy theories anyway!
 
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tstng

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Is 23000.258 an insider version? Because if it is, that means the patch is not publicly available? My Windows 11 is 22000.282 and I hammered the "Check for updates" button to no avail. Also, if 23000.258 is an insider version and has nothing to do with the AMD patch (which apparently after a quick search seems to be KB5006746) than you may need to retest because the average user is not using an insider build.
 
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Conahl

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larkspur said:
You guys are gonna take some heat from the AMD fanbois
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you mean like the uproar the intel fanboys were doing when 11th gen was tested on store bought cpus and boards that were available for sale before intel's official release date ? how they complained about how it isnt the release microcode, and an official release date micro code would put 11th gen ahead of zen 3 ?
 
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The_King

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The concern about the L3 cache issue was about applications sensitive to memory subsystem access time and not really about gaming.

Known Performance Changes
Impact

Resolution
Issue 1: Measured and functional L3 cache latency may increase for some applications.

Applications sensitive to memory subsystem access time may be impacted.
Estimated performance impact of <3-5% in affected applications, with possible outliers in some games.
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https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-400
 
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ottonis

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It's pretty obvious that Win11 has been co-developed in very close collaboration with Intel and heavily optimized for Alder Lake's hybride architecture.
Knowing Intel's track record with unfair practices I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cooperation of Microsofts Win11 developer team with AMD has been much less close and maybe not as informative as one might have expected in order for AMD to discover anomalies timely in the code that affect AMD's CPU performance.
 
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renz496

renz496

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ottonis said:
It's pretty obvious that Win11 has been co-developed in very close collaboration with Intel and heavily optimized for Alder Lake's hybride architecture.
Knowing Intel's track record with unfair practices I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cooperation of Microsofts Win11 developer team with AMD has been much less close and maybe not as informative as one might have expected in order for AMD to discover anomalies timely in the code that affect AMD's CPU performance.
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funny thing is MS console is fully AMD. also in the past MS surface are using intel CPU only now some of the Surface are being updated with AMD Ryzen. if this thing with windows 11 never happen some people probably believe it is game over for intel since their trusted partner in crime now also using AMD hardware instead of intel haha.

even more funny if this thing that happen with Win 11 might because of AMD usual "assume everything is fine, so no need to waste money sending engineer to oversee Win 11 development".
 
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dutty handz

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larkspur said:
Yikes! You guys are gonna take some heat from the AMD fanbois if you end up comparing AMD vs. Intel with both on Win 11 for the upcoming Alder Lake reviews... This certainly won't help with their conspiracy theories anyway!
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Who's a fanboy of who now ?

If Intel got up their lazy ride the wave train, it's only because AMD did it's homework and put some humility in Intel.
If you wanna imply it is a remarquable feat for Intel, a 150 billions $ assets company, to beat AMD, a 10 billion $ assets company, after trying for 3 years against chips that are 1 year old, well, continue praising Lord Pat.
Also, remember how consumer friendly Intel was when they didn't have solid competion for 10 years ?

So, I'll ask again, who's the fanboy of who now ?
Personnally, I'm a fanboy of competition driving innovations.
 
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TerryLaze

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hotaru251 said:
this is why the dominant OS maker (MS) shouldnt of only worked with Intel to design WIN11.

Hope in future they work with both so they don't have preferential treatment to 1 or other.
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Intel has a huge software department which is why they can contribute things even to MS, like intel Bridge Technology that works for others as well and not just the scheduler that is only for alder, if AMD was to provide the same amount of work to MS as intel does it would kill them financial, there is no way for AMD to pull it off.
AMD couldn't even develop mantle by themselves.
 
larkspur

larkspur

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dutty handz said:
Who's a fanboy of who now ?
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Huh? I already see three posts containing the conspiracy theory that M$ didn't work with AMD when developing Win 11. If you've paid attention to the news, leaks, etc regarding AL and Win11 you'd see dozens more posts promoting this conspiracy. This is ridiculous. Of course M$ worked with AMD on Win 11. They want AMD users to switch to Win 11. The fact that [even when patched] Zen produces inconsistent results in Win 11 vs Win 10 is bad for M$. This is on AMD and M$ and has nothing to do with Intel. Luckily Paul mentioned that they'll present the AL reviews with results using both Win 10 and Win 11 - that should at least make the fanbois happy, right?

As far as I go - If I needed a CPU with 10+ cores I would certainly go with AMD. 3 years ago I built a Threadripper 1920x machine. But today if I needed to build a budget gamer, I would build with a i5 11400 (AMD still has nothing to compete in that price bracket). AL reviews are going to be interesting. This might be another generation from Intel where the top-end CPUs are going to be kind of meh, whereas the budget CPUs are going to be great. To quote Paul (out of context) - "Wins some, loses some". Unfortunately we'll have to wait till next year to see what the budget AL cpus can really do. I'm personally excited to see what the i5 12400 (or whatever they call it) will do. It appears to be 6 P cores with HT and 0 E cores. If it's priced like the 11400 it should be a great gaming CPU. And by that time maybe AMD will finally update their budget offerings.
 
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hotaru251

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larkspur said:
M$ didn't work with AMD when developing Win 11.
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thats not entirely point.

point is its a known FACT that MS and Intel worked on WIN11 more than ever before due to the new big little design not working same as traditional cpu's.

especially since they know how WIN10 worked and didn't bother makign sure it was working properly for AMD prior to launch. (that issue is something that shouldnt of ever made it past QC/Beta)

eli5 version: it seemed to be a jab to make intel look better than its competition with its next gen cpu's.
 
larkspur

larkspur

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hotaru251 said:
especially since they know how WIN10 worked and didn't bother makign sure it was working properly for AMD prior to launch. (that issue is something that shouldnt of ever made it past QC/Beta)
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I think you overestimate M$'s ability to release an issue-free OS on day 1...
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Robert J. Hanlon
 
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DanglingPointerException

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Lads, switch to Linux! Both Intel and AMD and OTHERS will all run as fast as possible uncompromising; and you can always switch-off any spectre-meltdown-etc type mitigations if you really want to like the flick of a switch! ;)
 
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PCWarrior

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Conahl said:
you mean like the uproar the intel fanboys were doing when 11th gen was tested on store bought cpus and boards that were available for sale before intel's official release date ? how they complained about how it isnt the release microcode, and an official release date micro code would put 11th gen ahead of zen 3 ?
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Release-day microcode did improve performance by 4-7% and was enough to place the 11700K consistently above the 10700K and have it trade blows with the 5800X. Also such a comment is quite rich coming from AMD fanboys that would definitely cause an uproar there have been rogue pre-release reviews with pre-release microcode that put AMD cpus in a bad light. Let’s not forget that these are the same fanboys who over the years have complained about pretty much everything that did not put AMD in the best possible light like:
  1. not retesting AMD cpus with the latest and greatest BIOS (even 2-6 months AFTER release)
  2. not testing with high speed or low latency RAM
  3. not using certain type of RAM (Samsung B die)
  4. not OCing the infinity fabric
  5. not using the “right” mode of Windows (remember creator mode vs game mode in Threadripper?)
  6. not using the latest version of Adobe
  7. testing gaming with older titles and not only the latest titles that take advantage of more cores
  8. testing gaming only at 1080p and not also at 4K
  9. not testing streaming scenarios
  10. not tinkering with Matlab to set an environmental variable for the fast codepath
  11. not using a community-created scheduler for Threadripper
  12. hating certain software because of supposedly being poorly optimised and not leveraging more cores/threads while knowing nothing about Amdahl's law.
And now the same fanboys see a conspiracy theory of Intel and Microsoft instead of sheer incompetence on behalf of their beloved AMD to collaborate with Microsoft and iron out the bugs ahead of Windows 11 release. The fact of the matter is that the 12900K is faster than the 5950X in gaming while costing $210 less. It also beats it in single, light and mid-threaded productivity workloads and trades blows with it in heavily multithreaded ones. It is also available on a superior platform with the latest generation of PCIe express (PCIe gen 5), latest RAM generation (DDR5), has superior cpu-chipset bandwidth (with a DMI4 x8 link), superior chipset features, support for Thunderbolt 4, WiFi 6E and the list goes on.

DanglingPointerException said:
Lads, switch to Linux! Both Intel and AMD and OTHERS will all run as fast as possible uncompromising; and you can always switch-off any spectre-meltdown-etc type mitigations if you really want to like the flick of a switch! ;)
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How about the fastest version of Linux, Clear Linux?
 
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