The Apple Mac Cost Misconception

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[citation][nom]oscarsdg1[/nom]One of the interesting things about Apple is that they are often very competitive when they release new models. I own the very first macbook pro. I paid 2k, and at that time, the best deal i got at dell was about 1.8k. The problem is that Apple's product prices NEVER change. So when technology changes and everyone is getting newer and better product lines, Apple often falls behind but stays at the same price. This is a huge fault in Apple's strategy when it comes to people like myself who are heavily performance minded. I love my mac, OSX kicks ass and at this point in time, Windows cant touch it. This is not my fanboyism talking, I dual boot in windows all the time, and i have two other non-mac computers. But I won't be buying another mac anytime soon, because like most of you, I also have a budget. In the world that I live in, I can't live without my mac or my windows machine. The biggest problem with computers right now, is Microsoft, because the hardware in our computers are not being used to their potential anymore. That is why I love my mac, because even on "obsolete hardware" it kicks so much ass for everything I need it to do. Hardware is awesome and i love building a new desktop just as much as the next guy, but come on, I'm tired of being f'd with by Microsoft OS. And on the other side, I'm tired of Apple's lame prices and their poor excuse for a competitive LCD panel. At least we have Linux [/citation]
 
I like how the author disproved Mac OS X being a proprietary OS by simply not understanding what proprietary means.
 
One more thing I forgot to add. MAC doesn't integrate well into AD structure.(that's Active Directory...if you don't know that ...well....) For us enterprise admins that have to deal with noob high schoolers who tell us their mom or dad bought them a MAC and how much nicer our network would be if we had MAC's. This article is a real slap in the face and I know that's not THG intention. Just don't try to sell us uber geeks something you can sell to a noob high schooler. Your going to need a whole Sh*t load more to back up your claim. Does MAC have anything for enterprise management software for say 10-20,000 desktops/servers? SAN infrastructure via Fiber LS/SC connectors? Can I even get a reasonable priced fiber channel card for a MAC? ROI and TCO is lower for PC....Sorry mac (no pun intended) but MAC isn't where it's at. BTW this ISN'T a MAC sight, maybe you posted on wrong page? If so forgive the attacks and harsh treatment. If you meant to post it on here then ....wellllll look at the overwhelming responses.

Silent Majority
 
[citation][nom]mbmcavoy[/nom]Gaming: Apple's business model of tightly controlled hardware with integrated OS/driver development conflicts with the attitude of gamers. (That same attitude is shared by most THG readers) Gamers want to be able to tweak every last drop of performance out of a system, as well as upgrade piecemeal every other few weeks. Furthermore, as this thread demonstrates, this segment of the market is very willing to shop around for the ultimate bang for the buck. So, Apple simply chooses not to compete in this arena.[/citation]

You're kidding me right ? Steve Jobs, and Apple would LOVE Gamers using their machines, but the simple fact that game developers do not WRITE most games for Macs/OSX is why Apple does not have a gaming rig. Maybe this will change now that Macs are using PC hardware now, but who knows . . . I know I would not want to port my game(s) to OSX *UNLESS* I knew for a fact straight off that it would sell well for the Mac.
 
Apple's Open Directory integrates with AD:

http://www.apple.com/itpro/articles/adintegration/

Apple also has enterprise level management.

http://www.apple.com/xserve/

And SAN:

http://www.apple.com/xsan/

Back to the subject, like others here, the real problem with Apple is no budget or mid-ranged hardware. If you compare specs to specs yes Apple costs the same. However you have much more flexibility modifying your system on standard x86 hardware. Not to mention the Apple upgrades get astronomical in terms of price, if you buy them from Apple themselves.
 
Open GL will greatly help games for OS-X. Thats why ID has no problems with cross platform. They do allot of Open GL work.

Its the hardware in your average mac that makes it harder(dont get me wrong here, this would only effect higher in game settings in most cases)
 
[citation][nom]wh3resmycar[/nom]jeremy clarkson will burn this author alive...what a silly comment about hyundai lol[/citation]

Indeed it was! I would go further and suggest the Mac was a Trabant in a Ferrari suit, while the PC was the Ferrari in an "insert phrase here" suit depending on which case you bought.

(The operating system would be the one who drives and would do so according to his, or her, particular flair, which would range from "2.4 children in the back seat style" (Mac) to granny/sunday afternooner/boy racer/drag racer/*insert racer here* fashion according to ability (PC).
 
OMG this article is so sickly wrong I don't know where to begin.

first Mac OS isn't Proprietary??? What planet do you live on? Can I run mac OS on a PC? Yes, can I do it without modifying the mac OS install? NO, why??? because it tied to Apples hardware making it... u guessed it PROPRIETARY!!!!

second the entry level for a Mac is out of control. $600 for a mac mini with crap hardware that can easily be out built for under $300. Plus there are 100s of other laptops out that that have better hardware than the mac book pro that are cheaper. Just because you found 1 laptop that happened to have less value for the same price doesn't mean Apple hardware isn't insanely over priced. Oh and that little tide bit about building your own mac pro where you used super micro (a high end vender) instead of tyan or asus is a nice way to make it look thats not over priced too. How about you go to dell.com and build that same server and see how much money you save then.

Finally this mac just works crap needs to end. My MAC mini, iPhone, and iPod crash 10x more than my home built PC with Windows and the other with Linux ever has. Macs are flashy and the iphone is a nice product but lets be realistic Apple is over priced hardware with a Proprietary OS that is drawing ppl in who want change. The probable is once you change you realize you need to convert everyone on the planet just so you can get the same apps u used to get on a PC with linux or windows.

I've lost a lot of respect for TGDaily and Toms Hardware, what used to be good reporting has just become an endless hawking of products that they probably get kick backs for.
 
I don't want to start off on a negative tone but this article is complete crap and borderline on being a blatant list of lies. (There are many false statements in the article) I am not going to ask that you take it down because I know you won't. But I ask that you consider your reputation and the view your readers have on your content. For many, many years now I have been reading your site. It has always been a great source of info on the latest geeky IT stuff and I love it. But when you stray from the facts and start mixing in opinions is when things go wrong every time. This article was clearly written by someone who is a Mac fan and most likely a Mac owner. The comparison he makes to PC hardware is completely invalid and is in many respects also completely false. I have seen objectivity take a back seat on many of your articles before but this is by far the worst one yet. You guys are better than this and I am extremely disappointed that this crap article was allowed to take up web space and waste my time. I expect better from you guys...and judging by the other replies to this article I am not alone in feeling this way.
 
[citation][nom]yyrkoon[/nom]You're kidding me right ? Steve Jobs, and Apple would LOVE Gamers using their machines, but the simple fact that game developers do not WRITE most games for Macs/OSX is why Apple does not have a gaming rig. Maybe this will change now that Macs are using PC hardware now, but who knows . . . I know I would not want to port my game(s) to OSX *UNLESS* I knew for a fact straight off that it would sell well for the Mac.[/citation]

The best graphics card (from what I have seen) that Mac has to offer is the 8800GS, with on those MASSIVE resolutios (24" screens) would be fairly ineffective.

That's the real problem the graphics cards are TERRIBLE.
 
Wow what a bunch of lies.

The actual cost of that Dell is less than $1500.

If you price out a $2000 PC you're getting a 750GB+ HD (with higher RPM and a larger buffer), twice the RAM (and faster), and at least an 8800 GT.
 
Nice read, but I too challenge your methodology of picking "comparable" hardware. For instance, I just priced a Dell XPS M1530, which is far more comparable to your MacBook that the XPS 1730 you mentioned (2.4 GHz T8300, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB HDD, 15.4" display @ 1440x900, 8600M GT w/ 256 MB, Wireless N + Bluetooth & Vista Home Premium for $1,419 Retail price). $500 off seems like a clear win to me. Trying to make comparisons like that to inflate your point detracts from your whole argument, IMHO. But I say, if you prefer Macs, good on you!
 
LOL - 21 pages of responses and growing!!!

I do think that some of their products are deals if the stock configuration works for you and I do believe OSX is every bit as capable as any of the mature operating systems out there. Apple doesn't cut many corners on hardware so I understand comparing them with premium PC products. But it still doesn't work for me. Anytime I try to price out a Mac as soon as I stray far from what Apple thinks a consumer needs the PC ends up cheaper.

A year ago I earnestly tried to consider an iMac but ended up getting a windows desktop with the internal cable tuner card I wanted, the 2nd internal HD I wanted, and the 2nd internal optical drive I wanted. I knowingly trimmed other specs on what ended up being a Dell XPS 410 (processor and ram speed) to get what I wanted and kept the price under the 20" iMac I was cross shopping against even before I added the external HD, TV cable dongle, and optical drive I would have wanted (from 3rd party vendors even) on the iMac. In the PC world I had the option and am happy with the purchase. Is OSX so great that I would realize I don't really want what I think I want (like to watch TV while balancing my checkbook and not pay for a 2.4 GHz processor and 800 MHz ram to do it)? Does that survive an apples to apples price comparison, no, but I cut the corners I wanted and got the extra's I wanted and those compromises weren't available with the iMac so the price climbed.

Apple didn't fail to gain me as a customer just because of price - that’s to simplistic. In my case they failed to win me over because of the price I would end up paying for what I wanted versus the flexibility and number of options offered by other vendors. I end up pricing exactly what I want versus the closest available Apple product.
 
[citation][nom]oscarsdg1[/nom]The problem is that Apple's product prices NEVER change. So when technology changes and everyone is getting newer and better product lines, Apple often falls behind but stays at the same price.[/citation]

That's a point I use when I talk to Apple buddies. Before the Intel switch then the excuse was "Macs cost more because of the specialized hardware" but now that they use similar parts then justifying $1500 for a Black Macbook is clearly overcharging.

What Apple needs to do is adopt the pricing structure of the PC companies. Refresh your products more often and start lowering prices for old specs because $1100 for a 1.8ghz/1GB/160GB/No-DVD Burner machine is a ripoff for a 2007 system.
 
If OSX released and available to use on PCs, I'd dual boot it with Vista64. When I didn't need to worry about security, getting it to work seamlessly with AD (and don't tell me it can, the software sited above is crap), and just wanted an easy to use desktop : then OSX is great. When you have to do anything else, you're better off in Windows.

As for the cost comparison, its a lousy way to try to convince people to switch. Why would I want to switch anyway? All the hardware choices are on the PC side of things. Show me a SLI'd Mac running Crysis at 60FPS, and I'll switch.
 
How many people here have even used Apple's OSX Leopard, or Tiger for that matter? Aside from hardware pricing, Apple has a superior product to Windows Vista. From the OS itself, boot up times, to the file system, Apple is far superior. Why has Apple grown to almost a 10% market share, up from 4%, in a year? Much like Firefox, Apple is filling a niche of people who don't like Microsoft's products.

I just find it funny people here will immediately jump to conclusions without ever using the OS. I use Windows, Linux, and OSX on the desktop and enterprise level.
 
I don't know if anyone is overly interested, though I thought it funny. It appears a 'bom tuannguyen' has been editing the Tom's Hardware page on Wikipedia and is currently embroiled in a debate over editing the article. The main person he's debating with is frustrated over his lack of arguements much the same way many users here are experiencing. Also, all negative views of Tom's had been edited away. Pretty sure thats circumventing a neutral point of view seeming he's paid by Tom's. Ah well, perhaps I just don't fully understand the situation.
 
"How many people here have even used Apple's OSX Leopard, or Tiger for that matter? Aside from hardware pricing, Apple has a superior product to Windows Vista. From the OS itself, boot up times, to the file system, Apple is far superior. Why has Apple grown to almost a 10% market share, up from 4%, in a year? Much like Firefox, Apple is filling a niche of people who don't like Microsoft's products.

I just find it funny people here will immediately jump to conclusions without ever using the OS. I use Windows, Linux, and OSX on the desktop and enterprise level."
Click to expand...

Hum... when I tried to move my wife to using the mac mini to leave my PC gaming rig alone the first thing she asked me was can you put windows on this thing. She HATES mac OS (worse then me) and all she does and browse the web and play card games. She hates the interface and she hates the bouncing icons hahaha. She even hates she can't open to browser windows without out knowing short cut keys or left clicks (we use a real mouse on the mini). Anyway mac os isn't that quick and other than having unix at it's core it's virtually worthless.
 
Sorry for the double post, I failed to mention that a proxy has done most of the editing, though both the proxy and 'bom tuannguyen' carry on the discussion on the talk page.
 
Interesting article but I don't quite buy the price comparisons. After looking at what I get, I'm always left with the impression that I could get a better notebook for less from other vendors. Perhaps not from Dell or Alienware, but they are out there.

However my real point of contention is the comparison between PCs and Macs on the operating system level. While the Mac is partially open-source with the Darwin kernel, the user interface is definitely proprietary. Meanwhile, the completely closed Windows Vista is a nightmare to use. I've given up trying to help people resolve their Vista problems.

A better comparison would be with a modern operating system with a modern user interface. Take any of the popular Linux distributions and pit it against the Mac (there's no point comparing to Vista - Vista doesn't even win against XP). Linux doesn't win on every point. You may not even think it wins on most points. But it is at least comparable and it's free.

Let's let Windows go and lick its wounds for while. I personally don't think Windows will ever get back to being competitive with Macs and Linux computers but stranger things have happened. In the meanwhile, get a Mac or run Linux on your PC comfortable in the knowledge that you've got a what you paid for.
 
#1: The pricing comparisons are totally bogus, and rigged to make the MAC's appear like a good deal. Unfortunately we are not idiots and most of us research things we read, to verify truth. So stop trying to take us all for fools, you...
Click to expand...

I think that’s enough to get my idea:

Demagogue is defined as "one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."
Click to expand...

Problem with his demagogy is that we’re not idiots. Than again, I’m sure that some people will read this article it and think that Macs are a good deal. We all know that there’s a sucker born every minute, and Mac users prove it plenty.
 
I have never used a Mac. Its not because of the all the bashing people like to do. Its not because of the price. Its because I have no reason to get a Mac. Whats the point when I wouldn't be able to play 99% of games and other software that I currently use and have already paid for. I'm sure theres a Mac compatible software exactly like I use now but then I would have to go purchase them on top of buying the Mac. But for gaming its utterly useless. I have no reason to give Mac's a try.

On top of it all since they don't allow their OS to be installed on a non Apple computer I'm sure many people fear that they won't like it and won't buy a MAC computer because they know they will be stuck with it if they don't like it.
 
[citation][nom]ComputerExpert[/nom]This is a very reasonable article. There are several other advantages of Macs that are not explained. See "http://systemshootouts.org" for examples of other factors (like viruses) that should be considered.Also Macs can be bought less expensively than at Apple's website (e.g. at Amazon).The bottom line is that Macs are a FAR superior product in EVERY regard.BTW I've been in the computer business for some 40 years, so didn't just fall off the turnip truck.[/citation]

Wow. If you've been in the industry for 40 years, is it safe in assuming you must be at least 55? I can't believe someone your age would post such an absurd and naive comment.

If you actually believe that, I pity the company you work for.

Even the most die hard Apple or PC fanboy must admit that the other platform has its advantages. If you fail to acknowledge that, you are out of touch with reality.
 
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