The Apple Mac Cost Misconception

[lopopo]

Man is this guy serious? This is 3 rd rate bargain bin pc magazine stuff. Tuan, we are not slack jawed yokels from your local Best Buy. Everything that needs to be said about this article has been said above.
Consider that it costs shoe companies a few dollars to make a sneaker that they sell for one hundred dollars. People know this but they buy them because of the name. People are lemmings. I'm sure every industry has this type of thing going on and educated individuals like ourselves wonder why? Why would these mindless automatons buy this? Granted, the divide between name brand and bargain bin sneakers is much more vast then Apple and pc but it does make you wonder; Do other industries have a Tuan Nguyen ?

 

[gxsolace]

Dear morons -

If some of you actually read the article, the argument is that Macs are priced in line with other PC manufacturers and the only crazy price points are their upgrades for the system. Instead of jumping to conclusions, read the article. It's so expected to see idiotic responses like "But I can just build a PC that crushes the Mac Pro with way less money!" Sherlock, that's not the point, the point is can you build what Apple builds, exactly -- feature for feature -- for less? The answer is NO. It's about the unreasonable price myth, not the fact of whether anyone does like/own Macs or not.

@Ouch1: Get a clue, the PC the author built isn't even remotely cutting edge PC, it's just as off balance as the baseline Mac Pro. lot of CPU power and limp on everything else.

@ScotterMonkey: Are you beyond ridiculously blind? There's a reason the Envy 133 was compared to the Mac Pro, because they're the SAME computer, proving that Windows PCs can be just as over priced and Macs can cost LESS for the same hardware.

Idiot moronic and ignorant comments like these give Windows users a bad rap. I prefer to think that as a Windows user, people are open minded and that is why they prefer to build their own system in the first place, choice, and variety. But these stupid comments are not only narrow minded, they are down right stupid.

 

[tuannguyen]

Attack the arguments presented in the article and not the author please. This isn't a place for name calling and people bashing. If you present your arguments clearly and objectively, I'd be more than happy to even paste it into the article itself.

/ Tuan

 

[Guest]

I'm starting to lose faith in Tom's, why would you compare a portable 15" to a 17" desktop replacement??? The answer is obvious, it's the only way apple could break even. Let's check out the Dell XPS 1530 with online retail pricing from today:
Intel T8300 2.4GHz, 15.4" widescreen LCD (1440x900) & 2MP cam
2GB DDR2, 250GB HD, Slot Load DVD+/-RW, 256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT
Price - $1399

 

[montanabay]

Tom’s Hardware would be Tom’s Peripherals if we lived in a Mac world (because the only hardware you’re adding to a Mac is going to have a USB). The PC is all about customizing, tweaking, upgrading and down right re-engineering, which is why we have Tom's.

 

[igot1forya]

One word...

DELL?

 

[Yager]

[citation][nom]hixbot[/nom]Wow, you took a PC desktop with identical hardware and proved that it would cost the same as the baseline Mac Pro.What's the point? You can build a PC with hardware that isn't identical but PERFORMS better for CHEAPER. Picking the same overpriced PC components doesnt prove anything.[/citation]
This author is too biased to realize something this painfully obvious, this article is terrible.

 

[nekatreven]

What you guys don't seem to understand is that Tom's Hardware IS just a PC hardware site. We've been reading just PC here for a whole lot longer than anyone has been here writing about Apple.

For the longest time, we really only popped our heads up to laugh when Apple screwed up. Which, oddly, has been an awful lot lately.

I agree though that making it personal is not cool. I usually try to keep from it.

 

[Guest]

gxsolace. Read my previous post. I took the article exactly as intended and would say there are MUCH better comparisons than the ones sited in this article. In seconds, a "professional" computer consultant can provide 2 REAL alternatives - one Apple/one PC - for the customer that is much more realistic than these.

What is also not mentioned, and being a service first retailer I know this, is that our Mac users have MORE issues with their computers day to day than our PC counterparts as a %. We sell PCs about 85/15% in relation to Macs and find that about 30% of our support calls are for our Mac users.

Being a smaller user base has it's disadvantages in every area, from connecting to the local cafe's wireless reliably (we gave them a new router to eliminate those support calls) to just wanting to do "simple but off the beaten path" tasks that seem easy to accomplish on a Windows based computer with a quick google search and most often a free software download.

With the release of Vista, and SP1 in particular, we have less day to day customer visits with Virus and Spyware infections (I said less not none) and recent trends are showing that our Windows Vista customers are actually HAPPIER with their purchases by and large vs. our Mac OSX customers. This is even considering the uphill battle in perception from everyone from customers through our sales and service personel.

Not to mention our PC customer tends to leave feeling like they got MORE. They got a faster notebook, with a nicer screen, with more storage and memory, and better graphics, and bluray, and a bag and router, and a wicked VX Nano mouse from logitech... for $50 LESS my friend. ANNNND... my business makes TWICE the gross profit on the sale. Put THAT in perspective.

 

[dobby]

i used to come to THG to hear reviews of hardware and inspiring projects involving linux and servers ect... with having a tech discusion with someone going you hsould use a Mac, on the premise that they would know better, however thing are changing for the worse and instead of satisfy the people who came hear to start with, you trying to get people who would by Macs meanwhile your CPU/GPU charts havent been updated in ages, and have become redunant.

Listen to the people when they say they dont want Mac articles.

 

[joefriday]

In terms of hardware, there’s nothing really special about a Mac aside from elegant designs, be it a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, that makes it incredibly more worthwhile than the PC equivalent. And there’s no doubt that you can get an equally equipped PC, or build one yourself, for less money

I think you could have stopped your article right there.

 

[Antioch18]

There is a problem when you compare a custom PC to the baseline Mac Pro. You chose all upper echelon name-brand parts for the PC, thus inflating the over all total price of the 'equivalent' machine. The problem is that, as with all OEMs, you get charged name-brand prices for brand-x components. I checked out Apple's site and when you configure your Mac Pro the HDs aren't listed as "Seagate Barracuda 320 GB SATA 3.0" but rather "320GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s" - the same goes for all the other components.

At least when you build your own machine you know you're paying for the brand-name, and not overpaying for some white label parts. But this problem goes for all OEMs, just not Apple. It's just unfortunate that the price-point comparison was made with higher end PC parts and 'unknown' Mac parts.

 

[eltouristo]

bottom line is that article is just plain false. Its not a myth
that macs cost significantly more for same hardware. Wether you build it or buy it carefully, you can do way better hardware-wise with PC. It's not as bad as it used to be, but there are still far less titles for MAC. MAC's are a no-choice for gaming due mainly to limitied titles, but also choices of MAC cards etc for gaming are always way more expensive and very late to follow PC version release, if they come in current version at all. MAC's 'closed' software world tends to hold certain tasks
together much better than PC. My friend has a Mac Mini that he uses for
home theater. I forget what tuner he got, but it absolutely crushes ANYthing for PC. I have a late model avermedia card and its crude by comparison of range of features and how well it does what you would
expect a tuner/cature package to do. That's one area the PC's are way behind. You may think Im full of it, but if you actually go out and try to buy or build a PC HTPC (regarding the tuner aspect) you will be disappointed no matter what brand you chose (I tried them all except Hauppage before ending with Avermedia.) The way his works with Itv, scheduler, capturing captions, EASILY removing commericals, on and on, stuff that is PAIN on PC, just makes me green. Though I'm dont really think of getting a MAC, the tuner HTCP aspect is so compelling due to vacumn on PC side that I may get a mini mostly for that purpose. But in most other areas Im happier with my PC.

 

[lafery]

I hate Microsoft and would happily jump to Mac OS if it wasn't so limited in the graphics. To me, the comparison is not between PC and Mac, its between Microsoft and Mac OS. With Boot Camp, the only problem left is the video card.

Gimme a good one and I don't care to pay a little more for a Mac, as long as I don't pay Microsoft anymore.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]kami3k[/nom]Is mac now paying you guys? This is completely bias as others has said. You fail.[/citation]

Briliant.

 

[Guest]

I was looking at your specs and decided to spec a computer out that was more similar to what you specked out. I used Dell just like you did. I was able to come out with even more impressive numbers and system for less. Something with the same size screen. Especially since laptops screens can be the most expensive component. You need to hire me for your purchasing if I can get better numbers in just a matter of seconds. I feel like you purposely found more expensive Laptops just to prove your point that Macs are just as good. Now, I'm not dissing Macs. I actually own a Axiotron Modbook MacBook Pro that I use for live sound bank processing and graphical work when I'm on the road thanks to the built in Wacom tablet. It was the only computer at the time of purchase that I could find that had Wacom built in. I paid $2400 for that computer and now I can get a similar computer from HP for $1300. Now I feel like a total schmuck for purchasing it cause my Modbook has the rainbow circle lock up almost daily when using illustrator and photoshop. My workstations at home however never seems to lock up and they are custom built XP and vista computers. Even my wife's HP Vista laptop never has a problem. I honestly don't understand the hype of Mac. And the Mac vs PC commercial are retarded. They need to quit comparing present day Macs to 286 Windows PCs.

Here are my specs

Dell XPS 1530

Intel® Core? 2 Duo Processor T9300 (2.5GHz/800Mhz FSB, 6MB Cache) =Faster
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1 =N/A
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LED LCD (1440x900) & 2.0 M =Same
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms) =More
Size: 250GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive =More
Slot Load DVD+/-RW (DVD/CD read/write) =Same
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT =Same
Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card =Same
Verizon Wireless built-in cellular mobile broadband (EVDO Rev A) =Awesome
Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0+Enhanced Data Rate) =Same
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery =More
ExpressCard Sound Blaster X-Fi® Xtreme Audio Sound Card =Awesome
Finger Print Reader XPS M1530 =Cool Feature
3Yr Ltd HW WRTY, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis, 24x7 Phone Support =Good
1Yr LoJack for Laptops Theft Protection =Awesome

Now I know I could have probably gotten better numbers going through another company - especially since I think Dells are overpriced themselves.

 

[tuannguyen]

Write a 1 pager argument and second take point of view to this article, in an objective and non demeaning manner, and I will append it to my article as a new page called "Second Opinion."

 

[BallistaMan]

[citation][nom]rodney_ws[/nom]Cherry picking over-priced PCs does little to prove your point. I realize that when you're going the Apple route you don't have many options, but those of us on the PC side have TONS of options... and even the most basic among us would be able to purchase higher performing, lower cost PCs than the ones you selected to go up against the Apples.For $1549 I purchase an HP laptop w/ 4 GB of RAM, 20.1 inch screen, Blu-Ray, 5 speakers, and an Nvidia 8800 GTS. My system absolutely crushes that $2000 MacBook Pro in every category... and still cost $450 less.Don't get me wrong... I "get" Apple. They look awesome, are well built, have an awesome retail presence, and they are right for some people... just not for me. [/citation]
^+1

 

[zenmaster]

The only sadder thing than the poor quality of the article, is the fact that it was signed off by supposed editors at THG.

Where are the basic fact checkers?
Since when doesn't getting a 17" Screen Matter?
Since when is a 8700M GT Shared Memory?
Since when is the 8600M GT Faster?
Does it not matter the DELL Supports SLI and Multiple HDDs?
Does it not matter the DELL ships with 7200 RPM Drives?
Price vs the non-XPS model which is Much cheaper and removes all of the advanced features.


And the Author failed to Note the VooDoo PC has an SSD!!!!!!!!!
There are also quite a few more things mentioned above that were omitted.

THG Editorial Staff, Where is your Quality Control?
Biased Posts by Posters is to be expected.
Blatantly Biased Articles that intentionally mistate facts to prove a point are NOT expected.
Such articles are why I question more and more of what I read on this site.

There are still good authors, but I am forced to keep a score card of who the legitimate authors are and those who are not. Sadly, there are other sites where this is not required.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]zenmaster[/nom]The only sadder thing than the poor quality of the article, is the fact that it was signed off by supposed editors at THG.Where are the basic fact checkers?Since when doesn't getting a 17" Screen Matter?Since when is a 8700M GT Shared Memory?Since when is the 8600M GT Faster?Does it not matter the DELL Supports SLI and Multiple HDDs?Does it not matter the DELL ships with 7200 RPM Drives?Price vs the non-XPS model which is Much cheaper and removes all of the advanced features.And the Author failed to Note the VooDoo PC has an SSD!!!!!!!!!There are also quite a few more things mentioned above that were omitted.THG Editorial Staff, Where is your Quality Control?Biased Posts by Posters is to be expected.Blatantly Biased Articles that intentionally mistate facts to prove a point are NOT expected. Such articles are why I question more and more of what I read on this site.There are still good authors, but I am forced to keep a score card of who the legitimate authors are and those who are not. Sadly, there are other sites where this is not required.[/citation]

"Since when is the 8700M GT shared Memory" - Read manufacturer specs.
"Does it not matter the Dell supports SLI and multiple HDDs" - Sure does. For more $.
"And the author failed to note the Voodoo PC has an SSD" - for an upgrade price.

 

[spaztic7]

I believe this article is coming in very close to the quality of the CPU heat-sink article THG did a few months back.

From owning an apple Macbook, the best part about it is when I installed Windows XP on it. In OSX, watching 720p videos or other higher quality videos will result it a choppy playback and distorted images and sound. On the same exact laptop but now in Windows, non of these issues exist. I bought an Apple not because I wanted one or like them, but needed one for work so I can troubleshoot them. We have more issues on our Mac's than on our PC's. So for Mac OSX.5 being more stable, I laugh at you as the 8 Macs we have here crash/lockup daily under minor use (we have over 200 windows based machines).


Please use relevant systems to compare. Don't use an Apple Macbook Pro vs. an enthusiast or specialty end PC. Like others have done for you (aren’t you getting paid for what you do? Maybe you need to pay the people in this forum for do better research than you!) and use either the main consumer lines for HP, Dell, Sony, Acer, Asus, Toshiba, and the many others that are out there.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

Utterly pathetic, the author suffers from the same small mindedness all pc to mac users do. You've fallen in love with the mac's look and its underpowered OS, so you try vainly to justify it by lying to yourself and cherry picking facts. Let's start with price, no one with any sense (pc users) would buy a dell anything, dell is the apple of pcs, meaning they're overpriced pieces of shit. Go get yourself a nice acer with twice the power for $500 less on newegg. So what are we left with? The OS argument again. Guess what? Vista doesn't suck anymore, in fact its incredibly capable. There are two common uses for macs these days, digital arts and surfing the web. Get an EEE to surf the web, and go visit deviant art, the real artists don't use macs, only the wannabes and old farts who remember using macs in the early 90s are dumb enough to think macs are good for art creation. So what reason is left to over pay for some crippled apple product? Games? HA! Even the ipod can't compare to the Creative Zen, here is a nice rule of thumb for anyone wanting to consider an apple product. There's always something else that does the same job, better, for less money. Now maybe mac users can stop lying to themselves and just admit they've been suckered in by the gay ads all they care about now is looks and they're willing to pay any price for their fruity little turds.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]LAN_deRf_HA[/nom]You've fallen in love with the mac's look and its underpowered OS, so you try vainly to justify it by lying to yourself[/citation]

Provide some logical reason that Mac OS X is under powered.

 

[skittle]

I stopped reading the article at this point:

15.4-inch LED LCD 17-inch LCD
1440x900 1920x1200

who the hell hires these crappy writers? If you love macs so much, then your in the wrong place.

 

[chaohsiangchen]

Wow, $1799. That's more than the budget that I am willing to spend in the next 3 years on both desktop and laptop that I will be operating.

If I read even one more article like this, I will not only stop reading Tom's hardware, but also get other people stop reading it as well. Why? I used to love Tom's Hardware because how much money I saved from information provided. Apparently articles like this doesn't help at all, and I can get benchmarks from other sites as well.