News The new Doom's RT system requirements may ignite The Dark Ages for your wallet

[rambo919]

I mean, what's the big deal? I see so much hate for RT. Sorry, but it looks nice, and is the next big evolution of graphics rendering. Ppl wanting to burn the place down because of some new feature. The people who were still riding horses probably felt the same way about the automobile.

The "everyone other than me are luddites" argument wont ever work because people rarely resist technological progress simply because of taste.... they resist it for reasons such as graphics cards now costing effectively 5 times what it used to cost 5 years ago.

I can guarantee you if the hardware was affordable and the power draw (which affects not only power bills but to a low degree motherboard and high degree PSU costs) was lower no one would have cared about it being required.

Even if RT was magnificent in all aspects.... it would be irrelevant as a drawing point because why bankrupt yourself for a ferarri when a datsun will do fine?

 

[rambo919]

Can anyone bother to reply what's up with this mandatory RT **? Is it because developers don't want to optimize their games anymore or what?

As in the case of Indiana Jones it might be that it's not actually RT that is required but the RT cores which gets used for things other than RT. The same way cuda cores can get used for things other than cuda.

This is a turning of the worm point where developers are starting to experiment with new techniques.... the problem is mining be it for crypto or ai or some other convenient excuse has made the hardware so much more expensive than it used to be this looks like it might be the thing to pop the AAA bubble, we will have to wait and see.

2025+ will be the period of screaming and gnashing of teeth with both Microsoft and GPU providers obsoleting a massive swath of hardware by simply discontinuing software support.

Given the costs involved, I think a lot of people will simply decline to upgrade past a certain point and just not play demanding games..... especially the one's trying to normalize insane prices such as $80+. I already think there is something simply wrong with people that are willing to pay $40 unless they are objectively wealthy.

 

[Gaidax]

Given the costs involved, I think a lot of people will simply decline to upgrade past a certain point and just not play demanding games..... especially the one's trying to normalize insane prices such as $80+. I already think there is something simply wrong with people that are willing to pay $40 unless they are objectively wealthy.

I don't think so, simply because budget conscious consumers can always opt for consoles or cheaper PCs.

Some people in these forums seem to be under false impression you need 5090 to run AAA games. You don't, especially not if you keep to 1080p gaming which can be well powered by sub $200 GPU.

Also, games will always remain popular, buck for buck they are probably among the most optimal use of your entertainment "allowance" there is.

 

[Gaidax]

Given the costs involved, I think a lot of people will simply decline to upgrade past a certain point and just not play demanding games..... especially the one's trying to normalize insane prices such as $80+. I already think there is something simply wrong with people that are willing to pay $40 unless they are objectively wealthy.

I don't think so, simply because budget conscious consumers can always opt for consoles or cheaper PCs.

Some people in these forums seem to be under false impression you need 5090 to run AAA games. You don't, especially not if you keep to 1080p gaming which can be well powered by sub $200 GPU.

Also, games will always remain popular, buck for buck they are probably among the most optimal use of your entertainment "allowance" there is.

 

[rambo919]

I don't think so, simply because budget conscious consumers can always opt for consoles or cheaper PCs.

Some people in these forums seem to be under false impression you need 5090 to run AAA games. You don't, especially not if you keep to 1080p gaming which can be well powered by sub $200 GPU.

Also, games will always remain popular, buck for buck they are probably among the most optimal use of your entertainment "allowance" there is.

This is true for current generation of hardware..... for now. Generally speaking, if you can scrape by now.... by end next year or so you probably won't be able to even do that anymore. So if you spend money it makes most sense to aim at least for above scraping by.

Personally I am still running a 1050ti, only three games I am interested in atm have a bit of trouble on it with only RTX games being unplayable. If I upgrade now what guarantee will I have that within a few years I will still be able to play everything that gets released because some new shift wont happen again?

If you stick to tier to tier comparison I would have to replace it now with a 7700xt to have any hope for the same kind of longevity. Given how much more expensive everything is, should the hardware not last me longer by the same ratio?

Not everyone upgrades every year or so, and if you do $100-200 effective per year adds up very quickly.

On the other hand, with everyone so obsessed with pushing optimization over to upscaling..... at some point it's going to be pushed so far that 1080p becomes unplayable because then it upscales from below the effective threshold. Have you ever seem what 50-80% scaling of 1080p looks like? Remember, the game still runs fine.... but it looks ugly. But what happens if the game is so demanding your hardware cannot run it and you cannot justify replacing it because the prices are too high..... what happens if this is a significant part of the population? If you could pirate hardware everyone would start doing it.

 

[KyaraM]

This is true for current generation of hardware..... for now. Generally speaking, if you can scrape by now.... by end next year or so you probably won't be able to even do that anymore. So if you spend money it makes most sense to aim at least for above scraping by.

Personally I am still running a 1050ti, only three games I am interested in atm have a bit of trouble on it with only RTX games being unplayable. If I upgrade now what guarantee will I have that within a few years I will still be able to play everything that gets released because some new shift wont happen again?

If you stick to tier to tier comparison I would have to replace it now with a 7700xt to have any hope for the same kind of longevity. Given how much more expensive everything is, should the hardware not last me longer by the same ratio?

Not everyone upgrades every year or so, and if you do $100-200 effective per year adds up very quickly.

On the other hand, with everyone so obsessed with pushing optimization over to upscaling..... at some point it's going to be pushed so far that 1080p becomes unplayable because then it upscales from below the effective threshold. Have you ever seem what 50-80% scaling of 1080p looks like? Remember, the game still runs fine.... but it looks ugly. But what happens if the game is so demanding your hardware cannot run it and you cannot justify replacing it because the prices are too high..... what happens if this is a significant part of the population? If you could pirate hardware everyone would start doing it.

To me, it always made more sense to not buy the absolute bottom tier when you don't plan to upgrade every year, but look a tier or two higher anyways. No offense, but that argument makes little sense to me. A friend used their 980Ti until it died this year. My 1070 was used for over 6 years, too, only being replaced when it really didn't match my requirements on it anymore. My 4070Ti will last me a couple more years, too. If you buy the lowest of the low, then of course you won't be able to keep the card as long; if you are at the lowest possible settings already, you cannot go lower. Buy a stronger card to begin with and you can drop settings for longer. Low-end cards not lasting as long is literally the trade-off for the cheaper price, jnless you plan to upgrade next gen anyways.

 

[Gaidax]

Personally I am still running a 1050ti, only three games I am interested in atm have a bit of trouble on it with only RTX games being unplayable. If I upgrade now what guarantee will I have that within a few years I will still be able to play everything that gets released because some new shift wont happen again?

Eventually there will be a new technology coming out and you will want to upgrade, but take note - the "new" RT is already out for 6 years and only now you start getting it to be required, because the critical mass of people having the capability with their hardware was reached.

1050Ti is almost 9 years old card, 9 years is eternity in tech. You will end up upgrading it in a year or two and whatever you upgrade to will have a good 6-8 years run for you at least, because even if next gen there will be some insane new tech - it will take at least that amount of time before game developers will be able to afford to require it.

And again - this is nothing new at all. It's the same as it was with DirectX, then DirectX 9, then DirectX 11 and 12. Older cards couldn't do it, and they got phased out over the years.

 

[rambo919]

To me, it always made more sense to not buy the absolute bottom tier when you don't plan to upgrade every year, but look a tier or two higher anyways. No offense, but that argument makes little sense to me. A friend used their 980Ti until it died this year. My 1070 was used for over 6 years, too, only being replaced when it really didn't match my requirements on it anymore. My 4070Ti will last me a couple more years, too. If you buy the lowest of the low, then of course you won't be able to keep the card as long; if you are at the lowest possible settings already, you cannot go lower. Buy a stronger card to begin with and you can drop settings for longer. Low-end cards not lasting as long is literally the trade-off for the cheaper price, jnless you plan to upgrade next gen anyways.

That would make perfect sense..... if the pricing did not increase exponentially. You now need to pay for lower to mid tier what used to be top tier level pricing.... which means you have to think longer about whether or not to spend the money.

 

[rambo919]

snip

And again - this is nothing new at all. It's the same as it was with DirectX, then DirectX 9, then DirectX 11 and 12. Older cards couldn't do it, and they got phased out over the years.

No disagreement there.... but given the way things have changed I am increasingly paranoid that the cycle of forced upgrade is shrinking. A new thing that did not use to be such an issue is the artificial VRAM limitations... and even if you have enough you might have a model where it does not really matter. If they did not try to gaslight everyone into believing that 8GB is enough..... I would not think they are going to try (if they can get away with it) and do uptick creep so to try and force semi-annual upgrading.

It's all just plain getting too expensive.

The aggravating thing is I WANT to upgrade because yes my graphics card has had a good long run.... but I doubt that I will get as good a deal again AND it costs 3-5 times more now to upgrade than it did last time. At the same time money is tighter now than it used to be.... and I am hardly alone in this situation.

 

[KyaraM]

That would make perfect sense..... if the pricing did not increase exponentially. You now need to pay for lower to mid tier what used to be top tier level pricing.... which means you have to think longer about whether or not to spend the money.

My 1070 already cost about 470€ - 480€ when I got it, an new 4070 today costs 530€. It dropped in price by now, but so did the 1070 I had back then when I got it. It depends on when you buy as much as on what you buy. A friend who is considerably tighter on money than me and used a 980Ti until late last year grabbed a 4060 because the old card is dying; that card cost around $295 right now. The 1060 launched at $250, the 4060 at $299. Not that much of a difference. Sure, it was sold fore more when it launched, but that's basically always been the case.

That thing is considerably more powerful than the old card, and will last a couple years. I grabbed a laptop with an RTX 4060 and an R5 7640HS for 800€ last year; it will last me quite a while as well, with it having the horsepower of a similar desktop system and all. Definitely longer than the FTX 1650 laptop I had before that. So basically, I'm playing in both the high- and low-end segment with the hardware I run, and neither will be an issue in the foreseeable future.

Good laptops will likely be available for cheap again soon when the 5000 mobile series launches. And as you can see, that laptop I got exceeds the requirements for the game discussed here for 1080p.

You either need the card or you don't. If you cannot afford any cards, as Gaidax pointed out, consoles are right there. They have a (relatively) fixed price, a fixed upgrade path (the successor), will run any game released on them, are affordable and will be just fine for most people. And. Heck, my nephew managed to afford a decent gaming PC with a 7600X and a 7700XT with a part-time student job working at a supermarket last year. If he can do that...

 

[rambo919]

My 1070 already cost about 470€ - 480€ when I got it, an new 4070 today costs 530€. It dropped in price by now, but so did the 1070 I had back then when I got it. It depends on when you buy as much as on what you buy. A friend who is considerably tighter on money than me and used a 980Ti until late last year grabbed a 4060 because the old card is dying; that card cost around $295 right now. The 1060 launched at $250, the 4060 at $299. Not that much of a difference. Sure, it was sold fore more when it launched, but that's basically always been the case.

That thing is considerably more powerful than the old card, and will last a couple years. I grabbed a laptop with an RTX 4060 and an R5 7640HS for 800€ last year; it will last me quite a while as well, with it having the horsepower of a similar desktop system and all. Definitely longer than the FTX 1650 laptop I had before that. So basically, I'm playing in both the high- and low-end segment with the hardware I run, and neither will be an issue in the foreseeable future.

Now here comes a bit of a niggle.... by the time this hardware reaches me it doubles in price with all the middle men, tarrifs and taxes. So even a $50 difference goes a long way towards changing the affordable to the unaffordable.

Now, compare the 4060ti which atm here costs $640 to the 1050ti which cost me $190.... Both are supposedly the same tier, just above bottom.

Good laptops will likely be available for cheap again soon when the 5000 mobile series launches. And as you can see, that laptop I got exceeds the requirements for the game discussed here for 1080p.

You either need the card or you don't. If you cannot afford any cards, as Gaidax pointed out, consoles are right there. They have a (relatively) fixed price, a fixed upgrade path (the successor), will run any game released on them, are affordable and will be just fine for most people. And. Heck, my nephew managed to afford a decent gaming PC with a 7600X and a 7700XT with a part-time student job working at a supermarket last year. If he can do that...

"just get a console" is not a good argument given that with most games gameplay is inferior to mouse and keyboard, on the other hand there are less games available and the prices of games are inflated which means that over time a console becomes more expensive than a PC. It's the same with printers, get the cheap printer but the expensive ink is what gets ya.

EDIT: also you cant play all games on all consoles, if they DO re-release one for a later generation you have to re-buy it. On PC you have options, you can even eventually emulate a console game if you think it's a superior experience to the PC version.

 

[KyaraM]

Now here comes a bit of a niggle.... by the time this hardware reaches me it doubles in price with all the middle men, tarrifs and taxes. So even a $50 difference goes a long way towards changing the affordable to the unaffordable.

Now, compare the 4060ti which atm here costs $640 to the 1050ti which cost me $190.... Both are supposedly the same tier, just above bottom.


"just get a console" is not a good argument given that with most games gameplay is inferior to mouse and keyboard, on the other hand there are less games available and the prices of games are inflated which means that over time a console becomes more expensive than a PC. It's the same with printers, get the cheap printer but the expensive ink is what gets ya.

EDIT: also you cant play all games on all consoles, if they DO re-release one for a later generation you have to re-buy it. On PC you have options, you can even eventually emulate a console game if you think it's a superior experience to the PC version.

The 1050 Ti isn't the same tier as a 4060 Ti, though. It's two tiers down, 1 1/2 at best. That's not the same. I'm sorry you are bogged down by tarifs so much, but that's not exactly the manufacturer's fault. Blame the US or your own government for that.

Console games aren't much more expensive than video games nowadays, if at all. For example, P3Reload costs the same on Steam and PS5 outside sales. And I disagree that mouse and keyboard is always superior. Lately, I got more and more frustrated by the godawful PC layout of many games, making me switch to controller, which I HATE.

 

[rambo919]

The 1050 Ti isn't the same tier as a 4060 Ti, though. It's two tiers down, 1 1/2 at best. That's not the same. I'm sorry you are bogged down by tarifs so much, but that's not exactly the manufacturer's fault. Blame the US or your own government for that.

Oh but it is, they shifted all the names upwards and hoped no one would notice.... unless they released a 4050 and 4030 I am unaware of?

Console games aren't much more expensive than video games nowadays, if at all. For example, P3Reload costs the same on Steam and PS5 outside sales. And I disagree that mouse and keyboard is always superior. Lately, I got more and more frustrated by the godawful PC layout of many games, making me switch to controller, which I HATE.

OK but now take everything together, to stick with consoles and say you stick to one family you have to have one of each: PSX, PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5.... or do you re-buy all your games with each generation in order to keep playing them?

Compare that to upgrading one PC.

The controls thing is simply because these are terrible ports of console games.... the same would be true for PC games ported to console. I agree that sometimes a controller is superior which is why I have one.... but if I had to choose between only one or the other I could never pick a controller.

 

[KyaraM]

Oh but it is, they shifted all the names upwards and hoped no one would notice.... unless they released a 4050 and 4030 I am unaware of?


OK but now take everything together, to stick with consoles and say you stick to one family you have to have one of each: PSX, PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5.... or do you re-buy all your games with each generation in order to keep playing them?

Compare that to upgrading one PC.

The controls thing is simply because these are terrible ports of console games.... the same would be true for PC games ported to console. I agree that sometimes a controller is superior which is why I have one.... but if I had to choose between only one or the other I could never pick a controller.

Ah yes, that old name shift argument... I really am tired of it. And to answer your question if they released a 4050, yes, they indeed did, although it's "only" a mobile GPU. It's about 15% slower than the 4060 mobile, which is in turn about 8% slower than the desktop counterpart, meaning that if there were a desktop 4050, it would likely look very similar. So if the existence of a 4050 is your argument against a name shift, there you go. And even if it wasn't, the raw performance of, say, the 4070 still wouldn't warrant it being named a 4060, end of discussion. It's such a dumb argument, I swear... put forth by one idiot, then regurgitated ad nauseam by everyone else.

And you don't have to tell me why PC is better, I'm a PC player precisely because I like having everything in one place. The fact that many PC ports are bad also doesn't change that they are still better to play on controller. Yes, they need to put more effort into them, nobody questions that. Doesn't change how it is, though. That's the only real downside. And I still own consoles regardless of my PC preference. Why, outside of space restrictions, it's such an issue for you to keep older consoles I don't get, though. Besides, you can sell off some of the older ones anyways, for example, the PS4 since the PS5 can play PS4 games perfectly fine. As can at least some PS3 models, though it's scummy not all were. With an Xbox game pass, you can also play most games released for PC... and if GPUs are really that expensive in your country due to taxes and what not, then sorry, but complaining lead nowhere. Getting a new console will be cheaper no matter what. My laptop 4060 is twice as fast as your 1060, and faster/same performance as a 1080 Ti. And by now, said 4060 is old tech itself considering that the 5000 series is out now. Comparing these old cards to the new ones and wanting everything to just work with them infinitely is like comparing a modern gun to a long bow, and claiming that you should be able to bring a longbow to a modern war and still be able to be effective.

At some point, you either have to go with the times or drop out altogether. Again, that price increase is, for the most part, your country's taxes/fines/whatever, not a real increase, from what it sounds like. What do you expect, that those companies sell their stuff to you for a charity price? Did you consider older cards like a 3060 or 6600XT, for example? Used cards? Anything?

 

[rambo919]

Ah yes, that old name shift argument... I really am tired of it. And to answer your question if they released a 4050, yes, they indeed did, although it's "only" a mobile GPU. It's about 15% slower than the 4060 mobile, which is in turn about 8% slower than the desktop counterpart, meaning that if there were a desktop 4050, it would likely look very similar. So if the existence of a 4050 is your argument against a name shift, there you go. And even if it wasn't, the raw performance of, say, the 4070 still wouldn't warrant it being named a 4060, end of discussion. It's such a dumb argument, I swear... put forth by one idiot, then regurgitated ad nauseam by everyone else.

That would be the 1030 equivalent then.... are you sure you understand what you are countering? See last paragraph of this post.

And you don't have to tell me why PC is better, I'm a PC player precisely because I like having everything in one place. The fact that many PC ports are bad also doesn't change that they are still better to play on controller. Yes, they need to put more effort into them, nobody questions that. Doesn't change how it is, though. That's the only real downside. And I still own consoles regardless of my PC preference. Why, outside of space restrictions, it's such an issue for you to keep older consoles I don't get, though. Besides, you can sell off some of the older ones anyways, for example, the PS4 since the PS5 can play PS4 games perfectly fine. As can at least some PS3 models, though it's scummy not all were. With an Xbox game pass, you can also play most games released for PC... and if GPUs are really that expensive in your country due to taxes and what not, then sorry, but complaining lead nowhere. Getting a new console will be cheaper no matter what. My laptop 4060 is twice as fast as your 1060, and faster/same performance as a 1080 Ti. And by now, said 4060 is old tech itself considering that the 5000 series is out now. Comparing these old cards to the new ones and wanting everything to just work with them infinitely is like comparing a modern gun to a long bow, and claiming that you should be able to bring a longbow to a modern war and still be able to be effective.

The 40 series was old tech when it was released already because the market demands double what is available and given how it released at double the price it has value at I am surprised that so many people were desperate enough to spend on it. But that is only true from a gaming pov, their real target market is everything other than gaming. The 50 series having been proven to only be a warmed over 40 series release.... we will see how long the extortion lasts.

At some point, you either have to go with the times or drop out altogether. Again, that price increase is, for the most part, your country's taxes/fines/whatever, not a real increase, from what it sounds like. What do you expect, that those companies sell their stuff to you for a charity price? Did you consider older cards like a 3060 or 6600XT, for example? Used cards? Anything?

Oh that is part of it... but it still does not explain why even in the cheapest countries to buy the price has at minimum tripled over the last ten years (I mistakenly said 5 years in a previous post, guess it sounded more impressive). Elsewhere it got 5 times more expensive. The increase incline has simply been too steep to explain by the usual incremental increases. The obvious thing that happened is a series of "events" that steeply increased the price, at each time the increase was explained as unique and temporary given the conditions.... but each time the price stayed high. They simply have no incentive to lower prices back down to affordability because the market has proven it's willingness to be extorted and gaslit. This is simple corporate greed maximization of margins run amok because everyone lets them.

The used market funny enough is untenable because of CUD (Compulsive Upgrade Disorder) where most people overvalue their used goods in order to subsidize their constant next purchases... and they sell to each other perpetuating the price bloat. So normal people dont bother even trying anymore unless it's for old hardware they cant find new anymore.

Speaking purely for myself I actually have bit the bullet now after much grumbling. My 1050ti is basically not supported anymore on driver level due to everything shifting towards upscaling and ray tracing cores (even if the game does not use rat tracing which is interesting, kinda like cuda but for games), I bought it 8 years ago but it's a 10 year old model, buying previous generation for affordability can cognitively stumble you. I could still keep using it for a few years but also I have been having a lot of trouble on Linux and nvidia made it clear that they dont want to even admit pascal even exists when it comes to new drivers and they malfunction leaving me permanently on 550. Given all of the trouble nvidia drivers have caused me in the past (with promises of improvement but trust broken) and how the 40 series was a slap in the face "pay up peasant" type nonsense and then the revelation of some models having degrading transfer pads/paste indicating clear intentions of planned obsolescence.... I bought a 7700xt replacement yesterday. Same tier... will also keep using it for 8-10 years.

Keep in mind tier has nothing to do with what the marketing team decides to brand something as.... it has to do with comparitive performence in the generation it belongs to. Marketing exists to scam you out of more money than you would have paid otherwise. This is who's line is it anyway, the points dont matter because no one actually counts them and everyone tries to BS everyone to maximize profits, so you have to look out for who benifits you the most for the longest each time you buy, brand loyalty is dead and the corpos killed it. It's not as if name shift is some massive conspiracy.... it's just become business as usual. AMD at least tries to stay consistent even though it changes tier names too often.

 

[KyaraM]

That would be the 1030 equivalent then.... are you sure you understand what you are countering? See last paragraph of this post.


The 40 series was old tech when it was released already because the market demands double what is available and given how it released at double the price it has value at I am surprised that so many people were desperate enough to spend on it. But that is only true from a gaming pov, their real target market is everything other than gaming. The 50 series having been proven to only be a warmed over 40 series release.... we will see how long the extortion lasts.


Oh that is part of it... but it still does not explain why even in the cheapest countries to buy the price has at minimum tripled over the last ten years (I mistakenly said 5 years in a previous post, guess it sounded more impressive). Elsewhere it got 5 times more expensive. The increase incline has simply been too steep to explain by the usual incremental increases. The obvious thing that happened is a series of "events" that steeply increased the price, at each time the increase was explained as unique and temporary given the conditions.... but each time the price stayed high. They simply have no incentive to lower prices back down to affordability because the market has proven it's willingness to be extorted and gaslit. This is simple corporate greed maximization of margins run amok because everyone lets them.

The used market funny enough is untenable because of CUD (Compulsive Upgrade Disorder) where most people overvalue their used goods in order to subsidize their constant next purchases... and they sell to each other perpetuating the price bloat. So normal people dont bother even trying anymore unless it's for old hardware they cant find new anymore.

Speaking purely for myself I actually have bit the bullet now after much grumbling. My 1050ti is basically not supported anymore on driver level due to everything shifting towards upscaling and ray tracing cores (even if the game does not use rat tracing which is interesting, kinda like cuda but for games), I bought it 8 years ago but it's a 10 year old model, buying previous generation for affordability can cognitively stumble you. I could still keep using it for a few years but also I have been having a lot of trouble on Linux and nvidia made it clear that they dont want to even admit pascal even exists when it comes to new drivers and they malfunction leaving me permanently on 550. Given all of the trouble nvidia drivers have caused me in the past (with promises of improvement but trust broken) and how the 40 series was a slap in the face "pay up peasant" type nonsense and then the revelation of some models having degrading transfer pads/paste indicating clear intentions of planned obsolescence.... I bought a 7700xt replacement yesterday. Same tier... will also keep using it for 8-10 years.

Keep in mind tier has nothing to do with what the marketing team decides to brand something as.... it has to do with comparitive performence in the generation it belongs to. Marketing exists to scam you out of more money than you would have paid otherwise. This is who's line is it anyway, the points dont matter because no one actually counts them and everyone tries to BS everyone to maximize profits, so you have to look out for who benifits you the most for the longest each time you buy, brand loyalty is dead and the corpos killed it. It's not as if name shift is some massive conspiracy.... it's just become business as usual. AMD at least tries to stay consistent even though it changes tier names too often.

I understand that it's useless to argue with you. Run your 1050 Ti or 7700XT or whatever until it dies, and cry as much as you want about not being able to use old tech forever and ever. I'm done. Bye.

 

[rambo919]

And you don't have to tell me why PC is better, I'm a PC player precisely because I like having everything in one place. The fact that many PC ports are bad also doesn't change that they are still better to play on controller. Yes, they need to put more effort into them, nobody questions that. Doesn't change how it is, though. That's the only real downside. And I still own consoles regardless of my PC preference. Why, outside of space restrictions, it's such an issue for you to keep older consoles I don't get, though. Besides, you can sell off some of the older ones anyways, for example, the PS4 since the PS5 can play PS4 games perfectly fine. As can at least some PS3 models, though it's scummy not all were. With an Xbox game pass, you can also play most games released for PC... and if GPUs are really that expensive in your country due to taxes and what not, then sorry, but complaining lead nowhere. Getting a new console will be cheaper no matter what.

Giving this it's own reply.

If you can keep one device in current use or ten.... which is obviously better? And then there is the constant checking up if everything can actually still connect to output and getting new adapters or do you keep 10 TV's as well? Do you have a seperate gaming room to house everything? What about console exclusives that do still occationally happen, do you buy two new consoles instead of one new PC upgrade?

If you sell the old console you can't play it's games anymore.... on PC eventually you can even emulate all consoles which takes away that problem.... unless (and only IF) it re-releases and for some reason you spend money on re-buying what you already have so you can still play it.

And again, console games are so expensive compared to PC games, at best case scenario you end up in total paying the same price for both hardware and software bundles. This is the historical trend... yes some PC games are now basically the same price as console games.... because they actually are console games that don't get PC prices and people for some reason are willing to pay that much. This is where everyone pirates but no one admits it or they simply don't play these expensive games.

Lastly, streaming games and gaming subscriptions are not only extremely expensive over the long term but they take away your freedom.... so you actually pay people to tell you what you are allowed to play and how you are allowed to play it and advocate for it becoming the norm for everyone..... how is that not utterly moronic? Either they simply arbitrarily decide to revoke arbitrary privileges or delist games when convenient or they punish you for some kind of fashion offense... or they simply keep jacking up monthly prices when they realize no one will stop them. Oh and modding basically becomes illegal at some point because it's "cheating" or some other excuse.

 

[rambo919]

I understand that it's useless to argue with you. Run your 1050 Ti or 7700XT or whatever until it dies, and cry as much as you want about not being able to use old tech forever and ever. I'm done. Bye.

Are you ok over there? You seem slightly upset that everyone does not agree with you on everything..... argue for the sake of catharsis all you like, I prefer debate with a clear final objective answer.