The Velox V70 Will Re-Write Your SSD Experience

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]News to me. What game needs to write to the HDD so much? Last I checked the game loads into RAM, and the ram is modified all to hell, and all that needs to be saved to disc is just statistics, game saves, and updates.10GB would be 83,333 block writes (500,000/64GB=8,333.3 block writes per GB *10GB)So putting the previous math into perspective here is the 'endurance' of my theoretical 240GB SSD running for 6 years:Total of 24,000,009GB (aka 24 Petabytes) over a 6 year use is:4,000,000GB per year333,333GB per month30GB per day1.267GB per hour21.1MB per minuteNow, if we assume an 8 hour day (because how many of us are writing to our HDDs all night every night?)3.75GB per hour62.5MB per minuteThat is more than enough endurance even for most power users. Yes, people running huge loads of constant video editing/rendering, or monster databases for large networks will burn through this relatively quickly, but they are also going to purchase better quality drives with higher write endurance, and upgrade those drives every 1-2 years.[/citation]

I'd have to go back and look through the game statistics that Tom's has collected to check what games write how much data.

If 10GB is only 8333.3 writes, then sure, SSDs should not have any trouble. From what I know of it, when SSDs do fail it's usually a problem with the firmware, power delivery circuitry, the controller, etc. etc., perhaps almost never the NAND. Regardless, like you said, chances are that many people whom buy SSDs, especially for heavy work, would replace them before they fail anyway.

 

[master_chen]

[citation][nom]thebigt42[/nom]MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD SATA III CONTROLLER!!!!My Intel Sata II controller runs circles around my shitty Marvell Sata III with my 520[/citation]
English, do you speak it?

 

[nebun]

JUNK...nothing special

 

[cjl]

[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]http://www.bitmicro.com/press_resources_debunking.phphttp://www.datacenterknowledge.com [...] f-the-ssd/http://silvertonconsulting.com/blo [...] longevity/That is just a few articles, and they are all over a year old. Current write endurance is even better.[/citation]
Although you're right that for older drives, it really isn't much of a problem, you're wrong about the trend. With each new generation, the write endurance is going DOWN, not up. This is happening because as the process node shrinks, the write endurance of the flash drops, so it's nearly unavoidable for the write endurance to go down as capacity goes up, unless there is a significant architectural change to the flash. Old flash might well do 100k writes, but brand new, 20nm MLC might only manage 5k-10k.

 

[fb39ca4]

[sarcasm]OOH SHINY STFU AND TAKE MY MONEY[/sarcasm]

 

[nicodemus_mm]

[citation][nom]njt[/nom] you shouldn't be buying into these techs, stick to hdds until the good stuff comes.[/citation]

LOL, really? It's so difficult for me to fully express just how... dumb that sounded. Based on several thing in your comment including (but not limited to) tinfoilhattery, content, capitalization, and a general lack of a clue you may wish to STFU. So how's that 286 chugging along... or is that too modern for you? Still waiting for the good stuff? Abacus have too much planned obsolescence so you're still using Dirt-and-a-Stick 1.1?

I fully expect to have this rated into the floor... or worse, but there's only so much know-it-all that one can take in a day/week/lifetime. Now I'm going to have to spend all night getting the derp off of my screen. *sigh*

 

[mayne92]

I'm happy with my Vertex 4 256GB even running at SATA II for the time being; even has a 5 year warranty. Hardly worried.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]master_chen[/nom]>SandForceYeah, no.I'll stay with my 120 GB Intel 510 (Which is THE best mid-range SSD on the market right now AND uses high-quality Marvell controller), thank you very much.[/citation]510s aren't really... on the market now, much. Also they were not really what I'd consider mid-range, for consumer drives. They're kind of expensive.

The best overall mid-range drives right now in my opinion are Intel 520 and Samsung 830. The Intel 520 uses *gasp* Sandforce, and yet are pretty damn fast and solid. Controller is only part of the equation. There are other contenders but those are my favorites, and certainly either is a better choice at this point than trying to hunt down a deal on a 510.

 

[master_chen]

[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]510s aren't really... on the market now, much.[/citation]

They sell like hot pies here, in my country (Russia), and there's tons of them in here, almost every hardware store sells them, they are quite popular.

Intel 520

Crap.

Samsung 830

Meh. It looks good, but controllers are awful and read/write timings are quite mediocre.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]master_chen[/nom]They sell like hot pies here, in my country (Russia), and there's tons of them in here, almost every hardware store sells them, they are quite popular.Crap.Meh. It looks good, but controllers are awful and read/write timings are quite mediocre.[/citation]

Tom's disagrees with you about the Intel 520s and the Samsung 830s.

 

[shin0bi272]

[citation][nom]master_chen[/nom]I hope that you really meant PCI, not PCM... :\[/citation]
no pcm... phase change memory 100x faster than flash

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30/embargo-ibm-develops-instantaneous-memory-100x-faster-than-fl/

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]shin0bi272[/nom]no pcm... phase change memory 100x faster than flashhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30 [...] r-than-fl/[/citation]

Not all PCM is nearly that fast. IBM's newer type of PCM is that fast. There are several other varieties that don't even come close.

 

[shin0bi272]

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Not all PCM is nearly that fast. IBM's newer type of PCM is that fast. There are several other varieties that don't even come close.[/citation]
I'll give you a cookie if you can guess which one I was referring to Granted though I probably could have been a little more specific

 

[ojas]

I've found having a dual SSD-HDD system is also good for the HDD. I ask the HDD to shut down after it's been idle for 10 mins. Yeah, there's a small delay of a second or two when i access my data/media that's on the HDD, but it's like less than a 30 seconds out of say 4 hours of computer use.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]shin0bi272[/nom]I'll give you a cookie if you can guess which one I was referring to Granted though I probably could have been a little more specific[/citation]

It was obvious that you referred to IBM's version considering that you linked too it. I simply wanted to clarify that not all PCM memory is that fast, so it would need to be that only the PCM that you linked to was relevant to your statement. Also, where's my cookie?

 

[Velocitydreamer]

[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]"coated in metallic gold, bringing a rich, pretty sparkle"Yes, a "pretty sparkle" is a huge incentive to purchase internal computer parts [/citation]

I'ma chrome out my desktop yo! Throw sum 140mm Spinners in thur! lol

 

[JonnyDough]

[citation][nom]master_chen[/nom]>SandForceYeah, no.I'll stay with my 120 GB Intel 510 (Which is THE best mid-range SSD on the market right now AND uses high-quality Marvell controller), thank you very much.[/citation]

Prove it? I'm a fan of the new Samsung 840's. Why? For laptop use they are incredible. Very low power consumption.

 

[JonnyDough]

[citation][nom]master_chen[/nom]They sell like hot pies here, in my country (Russia), and there's tons of them in here, almost every hardware store sells them, they are quite popular.Crap.Meh. It looks good, but controllers are awful and read/write timings are quite mediocre.[/citation]

That's because in Russia, you do not control SandForce controller. SandForce controller control you!

 

[misiu_mp]

[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]http://www.bitmicro.com/press_resources_debunking.phphttp://www.datacenterknowledge.com [...] f-the-ssd/http://silvertonconsulting.com/blo [...] longevity/That is just a few articles, and they are all over a year old. Current write endurance is even better.[/citation]

Write endurance of single cells is worsening as the manufacturing process scales down. This is due to the physical limitations of the flash technology. In a smaller cell one can fit fewer electrons, making the cell more sensitive to erroneous electrons.
To keep the product usable, reserves needs to be increased, which, as for today, still results in a net lowering of production costs.
Also I would assume that the wear leveling algorithms are getting more and more mature, as well as the processing power of the chips they run on increases.

 

[freggo]

Bling for my computer because my girl does not know yet that I am a tech geek.
Seriously, how can you even 'write' this without turning red in your face

 

[Duckhunt]

SSD might be ok. I have had a series of computers and I never had a HDD fail. I only got rid of them because they were too small. I might be just lucky.

Do I think SSD will outlast HDD? The manufacturers tend to exaggerate and lie. My early experiences with SSD was a very big disappointment. They have very fast reading but disappointing writing. After my first experience I never bothered using one for the pc. I just leave my computer on sleep. I have one on the laptop but its just the OS onboard.

I am reluctant to use SSDs.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]misiu_mp[/nom]Write endurance of single cells is worsening as the manufacturing process scales down. This is due to the physical limitations of the flash technology. In a smaller cell one can fit fewer electrons, making the cell more sensitive to erroneous electrons.To keep the product usable, reserves needs to be increased, which, as for today, still results in a net lowering of production costs.Also I would assume that the wear leveling algorithms are getting more and more mature, as well as the processing power of the chips they run on increases.[/citation]

It's my understanding that the cells get worse endurance due to smaller fabrication processes meaning less electrical insulation for each cell, not because you can fit fewer electrons in each cell.

[citation][nom]Duckhunt[/nom]SSD might be ok. I have had a series of computers and I never had a HDD fail. I only got rid of them because they were too small. I might be just lucky. Do I think SSD will outlast HDD? The manufacturers tend to exaggerate and lie. My early experiences with SSD was a very big disappointment. They have very fast reading but disappointing writing. After my first experience I never bothered using one for the pc. I just leave my computer on sleep. I have one on the laptop but its just the OS onboard.I am reluctant to use SSDs.[/citation]

Early SSDs were often disapointing in some ways, but most modern SSDs have write speeds that are about as good as their read speeds or at least still far better than hard drives. Just avoid older models (especially junk such as Crucial's V4 series, their M4 series is soooo much better). Of course, if you're happy with what you have, then don't bother spending the money. There's not much point in fixing what isn't broken in a situation such as this unless you really want improvement.

 

[danwat1234]

[citation][nom]Fabel[/nom]After 3 years my first SSD (first gen 80GB Intel) is still showing less than 5% percent wear. After 2 years my second SSD (second gen 160GB Intel) is at 2% wear. Capacities (and speeds) will be totally useless well before they wear out. I only got HDD's on my media server and only for media, the system drive is a SSD too. There are situations where an SSD may not be advisable, but for most users, In my experience of real world daily usage, on average HDDs got a shorter lifetime due to mechanical or electric failure. Furthermore, my oldest HDD is a 320GB IDE unit, and it is 7 years old and soon to be retired. By now my SSDs have proven me they can outlast any of my HDD.Interface (IDE anyone?), speed, and increasing unrealibility as a mechanical drive ages are way higher concerns than wearing on a SSD.Cost/capacity are the only concerns and if you can afford it really specific intesive writing usage is the only weakness. You can keep waiting until the good stuff comes, I'm enjoying the good stuff NOW.[/citation]

My 2nd generation Intel X25-m G2 80GB SSD shows 95% life left (wearout indication at 95/100 so 5% NAND wear) and this is with 15TB of writes! 15,000GB. This is an OS drive for my laptop that occasionally sees low RAM situations in which pagefile writes go through the roof, but my laptop is still responsive.

Great SSD. According to http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm/page218 ,
34nm class SSDs can always handle 100s of TB of writes, and even sometimes a Petabyte of data before wearing out!!

 

[Duckhunt]

A couple of years ago I got a Flash drive. It drove me nuts. It would be really fast for reading but the writting seem to be forever. The drive light always seemed to be on. Since then after being burned like that I avoid them. I am not sure about the lifespan of hard drives but i stick to anything that has a high MBTF. I won't advertise the models. I have only had 1 hard drive failure about 12 years ago. Though I use my computer daily and in my younger days it was the whole day long. I did not have a hard drive failure. Though after 5 years i just upgrade from fear of failure in general. ha ha

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]Duckhunt[/nom]A couple of years ago I got a Flash drive. It drove me nuts. It would be really fast for reading but the writting seem to be forever. The drive light always seemed to be on. Since then after being burned like that I avoid them. I am not sure about the lifespan of hard drives but i stick to anything that has a high MBTF. I won't advertise the models. I have only had 1 hard drive failure about 12 years ago. Though I use my computer daily and in my younger days it was the whole day long. I did not have a hard drive failure. Though after 5 years i just upgrade from fear of failure in general. ha ha[/citation]

SSDs have huge write performance nowadays too, not just great read performance The last drive that I remember having crap write performance was Crucial's V4 series.