Question There is In-game stutter - - - I think it's whenever something needs to be accessed from disk ?

[silver085]

It's an old PC, but this isn't a resource problem, as it happens in old games too that aren't even close to maxing my CPU/GPU or RAM. It also happens literally in main menus.

MSI H97 PC MATE
Xeon E3-1240 V3 (i7 4770 equivalent)
16GB RAM 1600Mhz(4x4)
RTX 2060 SUPER
PSU XFX TS 550W (P1-550S-XXB9)
x2 MX500 1 TB SSD
x1 IRDM PRO gen2 512 SSD(system drive)
x1 Toshiba P300 1TB HDD(storage)
x1 Toshiba P300 2TB HDD(storage)
Windows 7


So basically this 2 fps sttuter occurs whenever something isn't already loaded in memory and it needs to be accessed from disk by the look of it.
I'm uploading 3 videos with examples(click direct link beneath). Sorry for phone quality, I recently uninstalled Shadowplay and am just lazy. You won't be really able to "feel" the stutter in this case, but you can clearly see the fps drop and frametime spike.

First video is showcasing pretty much the most ridiculous example. Basically after launching the game, I will get stutter when I open the overlay for the first time, because it needs to be drawn. After that I can open and close it as many times as I want without stutter.

Second video is me scrolling through the save files. Game needs to access each save file on the disk in order to get the thumbnail, and so it stutters each time I move onto new file. Scrolling back up through the same files produces no stutter, as those are already in memory.

Third video is actually in game. Keep looking at the trees in the middle of the screen. You will notice the stutter occurring the moment when new model was being rendered in.

Some things I think we can rule out:

Given that this is Windows 7, I think we can rule out some background processes interference. It's also trimmed down to the maximum perfromance where I have like 50 proccesses running and I know what each one of them does(compared to +100 mess in Win10/11). I just have ESET, Nvidia Panel, Realtek Audio Panel and RTSS with MSI Afterburner in my tray. So unless I actually disabled some important windows service, I think we can rule this out.

-Obviously it's not overheating problem as it happens in menu's too, but still both of my CPU and GPU are around 60C when gaming.

- It's not a dying disk, as it happens on all of my disk's and all of them are healthy too(I use HDTune, CrystalDisk and have HDSentinel running)

- I don't know if this is a hardware problem. The only thing I can rule out is GPU, cuz that was recently swaped from old 1060 3GB(yes I did clean DDU uninstall)

- I tried all Vsync's, framelimiters, max pre rendered frames, none has an effect on this

If I understand correctly how this works... it seems like there's some communication problem between my CPU and disk's?

If I could actually remember and notice when this started to happen at first, it would be easier to narrow down, but alas I have no idea. With this PC I just got used to stutters as you can imagine, but I do rememeber it wasn't that bad some time ago.

Going back to hardware, originally I had ASRock H97 Pro4 with i5 4590. I damaged my MOBO by accident at some point and had to buy new one. I didn't want to do a full switch to Win 10 with new PC yet, so I just bought a cheap replacement with MSI H97 PC MATE and that Xeon. I can't really tell if perhaps this is when it all started, but I think I would have noticed it right away.

 

[punkncat]

Any time you are pulling from HDD is going to have far more latency. If you move this game to an SSD do you experience the same stutter?

To be fair, this system is aged by any metric.

 

[silver085]

Any time you are pulling from HDD is going to have far more latency. If you move this game to an SSD do you experience the same stutter?

To be fair, this system is aged by any metric.

All my games are on SSD's. Those are classic 500/500 write and read SATA 3 SSD's, so it shouldn't be the cause. Especially since I'm not running new games.

 

[TerryLaze]

Especially since I'm not running new games.

Old games are coded for old systems...they are mostly single threaded and every time they have to load something in, everything else has to stop until that is done, and since they are coded for old systems they don't load in stuff whenever your current system is full but whenever the average system of ye olde times would have been full, it's called optimization.
Also depending on how old you are talking about they where never expecting these old games to run at hundreds of FPS which can also cause issues.

Also also your videos aren't working for me so I'm just guessing on general things without having seen the issue.

 

[Moonstick2]

I damaged my MOBO by accident at some point and had to buy new one. I didn't want to do a full switch to Win 10 with new PC yet, so I just bought a cheap replacement with MSI H97 PC MATE and that Xeon. I can't really tell if perhaps this is when it all started, but I think I would have noticed it right away.

Run some benchmark tests using CrystalDiskMark on all your drives to see if the results look normal. Post the results here for comment.

Make sure you've got the latest BIOS and chipset drivers installed.

When you replaced your motherboard, did you do a full fresh reinstallation of Windows? If you didn't, you should do that now.

 

[silver085]

Old games are coded for old systems...they are mostly single threaded and every time they have to load something in, everything else has to stop until that is done, and since they are coded for old systems they don't load in stuff whenever your current system is full but whenever the average system of ye olde times would have been full, it's called optimization.
Also depending on how old you are talking about they where never expecting these old games to run at hundreds of FPS which can also cause issues.

Also also your videos aren't working for me so I'm just guessing on general things without having seen the issue.

Videos aren't showing because I used [media] tag, you have to click direct links beneath

Spoiler

It's important to read what I wrote about them and then watch them. This isn't a thousandth thread on the internet about random stutter occuring at random intervals while gaming. It's 100% reproducible and always happens when something new needs to be loaded into memory. On the third video I have a save where I'm standing at the start of it. After walking those few steps forward to trigger stutter, I can load that save, which will cause that model to be purged from memory and after moving forward again, I'll get this stutter again.

This isn't a matter of optimization, in happens in every game. It literally happens in main menu when I'm opening Afterburner overlay for the first time after launching games. Doesn't matter what needs to be loaded, doesn't matter what game it is, doesn't matter what cpu/gpu/ram usage is. Basically whenever something needs to happen for the first time, it will always sttuter.

 

[silver085]

Run some benchmark tests using CrystalDiskMark on all your drives to see if the results look normal. Post the results here for comment.

Make sure you've got the latest BIOS and chipset drivers installed.

When you replaced your motherboard, did you do a full fresh reinstallation of Windows? If you didn't, you should do that now.

Spoiler

OS DRIVE: IRDM PRO gen.2

1st Crucial MX 500 1TB

2nd Crucial MX 500 1TB

Toshiba P300 1TB

Toshiba P300 2 TB

So it seems my OS SSD got a little slower. It's supposed to have the same write and read speeds like MX500. It is though a bit old. I have it for several years now. Still it shouldn't cause this kind of stutter.

Both BIOS and chipset drivers are latest and yes I did a new windows installation when I did the switch.

 

[Misgar]

Xeon E3-1240 V3 (i7 4770 equivalent)

I have three i7-4770K systems and several old Xeons, plus a bunch of more recent stuff.

I'm guessing you can't overclock the E3-1240 (is it a V2 or V3) which is a shame. I'm running one 4770K at stock, another at 3.9GHz and the last at 4.2GHz all core with a manual lock at 1.250 Vcore. You can take them higher but I don't like running them at 1.4 Vcore.

You might consider swapping the Xeon for a second hand 4770K. They're relatively cheap these days, unlike the 4790K.

Even with a faster overclocked CPU, there's no guarantee it'll make any difference.

You might care to fiddle with Superfetch and switch it off (if it's enabled) or on (if it's disabled). Just a long shot, but who knows? Caching (or not caching) data in RAM might help.
https://techjourney.net/disable-or-enable-superfetch-in-windows-10-8-7-vista/

Those are classic 500/500 write and read SATA 3 SSD

I'm sure you know the 500MB/s figures are for Sequential Read/Write operations and Random 4K Q1 figures will be much lower.

 

[silver085]

I have three i7-4770K systems and several old Xeons, plus a bunch of more recent stuff.

I'm guessing you can't overclock the E3-1240 (is it a V2 or V3) which is a shame. I'm running one 4770K at stock, another at 3.9GHz and the last at 4.2GHz all core with a manual lock at 1.250 Vcore. You can take them higher but I don't like running them at 1.4 Vcore.

You might consider swapping the Xeon for a second hand 4770K. They're relatively cheap these days, unlike the 4790K.

Even with a faster overclocked CPU, there's no guarantee it'll make any difference.

You might care to fiddle with Superfetch and switch it off (if it's enabled) or on (if it's disabled). Just a long shot, but who knows? Caching (or not caching) data in RAM might help.
https://techjourney.net/disable-or-enable-superfetch-in-windows-10-8-7-vista/


I'm sure you know the 500MB/s figures are for Sequential Read/Write operations and Random 4K Q1 figures will be much lower.

It's V3. I appreciate the response where someone recommends a cheap upgrade instead of another "just upgrade to win 10 and buy a new pc". However still, this isn't a resource problem. I'll say this again :

This isn't a thousandth thread on the internet about random stutter occuring at random intervals while gaming. It's 100% reproducible and always happens when something new needs to be loaded into memory. Doesn't matter what needs to be loaded, doesn't matter what game it is, doesn't matter what cpu/gpu/ram usage is

Yet I see people coming to this thread and acting like it's just another stutter thread caused by too weak PC.

I play some MMO game which actually does push my CPU to 90% usage in some cities if there are also a lot of players there. If stutter occurs there, that's understable and completely normal.

It's not normal that I can't even open Afterburner overlay for the first time without stuttering as you can see on the first video.

Even in the 3rd video from Skyrim, what you're seeing is a LOD model switch. Where game switches LOD model to a full one as I get close enough. This is called "pop-in' in gaming. There are mods to fix or minimalize it for Skyrim, but still... the main issue is just that - Objects and textures in the distance 'pop-in' as I get closer to them. There should not be a stutter associated with it. It should just smoothly render in new model.

I'll try fiddling with SuperFetch. Caching data in RAM should help. As explained earlier, everything that's already loaded in memory doesn't cause stutter. Only when something new has to be loaded in. Still, that will be just a workaround. The real problem seems to be a slow disk access time, or I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[silver085]

I have edited my first post and uploaded videos on YT instead. That should make them more accessible.

 

[Moonstick2]

Nothing wrong with those MX500 benchmarks, and if you're absolutely certain you're running the games from the SSD that points to a software problem.

You're saying that this issue is consistent across all your games, not just Skyrim? Since stutter in Skyrim is a common complaint out there.

Are you using the latest graphics card driver? If you aren't, try updating it. If you are, try purging it from your system using DDU and using an older driver.

Otherwise in your shoes I'd probably try a total clean Windows reinstall in the hope that it helps.

Oh, and run some benchmarks on the CPU as well as CPU-Z, just to make sure your CPU and RAM speeds are all as they should be. I once had a Wolfdale processor in an ASRock motherboard where everything looked fine and 3.2 GHz was reported in BIOS, only to discover further down the line that this particular CPU was actually running at 1.7 GHz due to an issue with the motherboard BIOS that was only ever rectified by a 3rd party so, you know, odd stuff does happen.

 

[silver085]

Nothing wrong with those MX500 benchmarks, and if you're absolutely certain you're running the games from the SSD that points to a software problem.

You're saying that this issue is consistent across all your games, not just Skyrim? Since stutter in Skyrim is a common complaint out there.

Are you using the latest graphics card driver? If you aren't, try updating it. If you are, try purging it from your system using DDU and using an older driver.

Otherwise in your shoes I'd probably try a total clean Windows reinstall in the hope that it helps.

Oh, and run some benchmarks on the CPU as well as CPU-Z, just to make sure your CPU and RAM speeds are all as they should be. I once had a Wolfdale processor in an ASRock motherboard where everything looked fine and 3.2 GHz was reported in BIOS, only to discover further down the line that this particular CPU was actually running at 1.7 GHz due to an issue with the motherboard BIOS that was only ever rectified by a 3rd party so, you know, odd stuff does happen.

It's not latest graphic driver. I am on Win 7 so I don't have much choice. I can install some newer drivers with some workarounds but it's not going to change anything. I was experimenting with lots of drivers back on my 1060. I always do a clean reinstall with DDU in safe mode.

I'd like to avoid formatting since it's not guaranteed to fix it either.

CPU is running fine on 3,6 GHz just as my RAM is at it's max 1600 Mhz.

I know this PC well. I had it for years and I know what kind of performance I can except from it. It's the same games I'm playing for years and it's the same performance all this time. Obviously I gained some slight improvements when I switched from i5 4590 to this Xeon since I gained hyper-threading, 2mb more cache and 100MHz higher clock. Also I can push my graphic settings a lot higher now after switching from 1060 3gb to 2060 super.
My frames are stable once everything is loaded in game. This PC has no problems rendering what's already on the screen. It's only this damn 2 frames stutter when something new has to be accessed from disk and loaded into memory.

I recorded new example, again showcasing the most ridiculous example, that is stutter when opening MSI Afterburner overlay for the first time on each game.
There's just something fundamentally wrong if it happens on something as simple as this :