This is news.

[Beachnative]

Riser, you speak the truth. The Baby Boomers and WWII generation just doesn't understand as they were and now are in a completely different situation than we are. It would crack me up to hear them tell us how we are wrong in our assessments of our lives, except that I hear it SO much at work that it's very tiresome. It's not the 1970s or 1980s any more. The world has changed, you haven't.

It certainly isn't the 70's or 80's anymore, that's why corporate america has to have training to give the new younger generation awards for doing what they get paid to do. The new younger generation wants to start at the top, cut corners to get there and point the finger at others for their mistakes....and I've seen that crap over and over.

Their thought that if they get a diploma that guarantees them a job, it doesn't. It give you an edge over someone who doesn't. Real world experience is what counts and backing it up by knowing what the f^%$ you are doing counts too. If you don't have a college education and have the credentials like Riser then you know damn well he or she has fought to get to that position and had someone smart enough to give them a chance. Look at what that individual has done....

I've worked with people that have double masters that couldn't tell the difference from their ass and a hole in the ground. When telling them what to look for I get their condesending attitude telling me of their educational backround, how it didn't work that way in their lab at school and I must be doing something wrong. Their arrogance and immaturity shines through to what they really are.... afraid to make mistakes and say they did. It's a finger pointing world we live in where you are only as good as you were yesterday, but the guys with the diploma always get a better deal then those that don't...regardless of how clueless they really are...
BTW I have a degree but have been jaded by the lack of drive by today's youth.

 

[wanamingo]

I know Ive mentioned this before but I dropped out after a year.

I went to school for IT and it sucked... The program was awful the teachers had no cohesion, they taught whatever they thought would be useful. I had two different web development teachers, the first one told us she only knew how to use Dreamweaver and proceeded to print out webpages for us to read. The second one never showed up, had no idea what she was doing, and could barely speak English.

After they fired the second one we were told to take the final and they would pretty much pass us, I objected wrote the dean told him Ive learned nothing and refused to take the final (I wanted the class dropped entirely, even refunded). My logic was if an employer saw I had taken two advanced web development classes but didnt know jack sh*t I would have been embarrassed. They failed me 🙁

So I left and got a job as a repair tech, studied for a few certs, paid off my 1 year loan, and worked my way up. Now Ive got a nice job working IT for a medium sized company, with a real world education.

 

[riser]

If they're not working in the field and teaching, they're not qualified to teach. Too much passes by if you're not working in it. Now, understanding some basic concepts is great, but having multiple perspectives and different designs is the way to teach.

My best teacher was trying to get into teaching as a side job. He had everyone write up a network/system design plan, no one alike.. and with that, everyone came up with different solutions and everyone was able to learn off mine. 😀

 

[Beachnative]

One of my favorite teachers did consulting work for a few of the local municipalities and the company I worked for was the second internet connection at one of his jobs. I didn't know it was him but over heard the conversation of my boss and him about what the job required with my boss saying I have a wireless guy working for me who can easily solve this mess...and then called me in the room. My teacher and I laughed as we saw each other for the first time since school and then shook hands.

He said " This guy?...Was one of my shining stars in class...We used to pull him out of class when there were problems with the lab setups in our classes" He had a huge grin on his face. I felt he couldn't believe it was really me helping him out since I graduated a little over 8 months prior. We kept in touch till he got his third masters degree and left to go work for Qinetiq.... Cool guy, knew his stuff and yet even with his education wasn't too proud to ask for help.

 

[riser]

If they're not working in the field and teaching, they're not qualified to teach. Too much passes by if you're not working in it. Now, understanding some basic concepts is great, but having multiple perspectives and different designs is the way to teach.

My best teacher was trying to get into teaching as a side job. He had everyone write up a network/system design plan, no one alike.. and with that, everyone came up with different solutions and everyone was able to learn off mine. 😀

I mostly agree.

My father teaches a post-graduate business course at a local University. He only has a two year associates degree from a community college, but, he has been working in and around IT since 1968, and has run his own IT business since 1978. So, I guess they think he knows just enough to teach a post-graduate course at a major University without all the advanced degrees.

I tried teaching part time because I thought the teachers were horrible. In order to teach high school, you need a 4 year degree. In order to teach college, you need a 4 year or master's degree. I thought it was funny that the school that trained me and I ran their labs for two years as a student worker wouldn't hire me full time to run their labs, citing I didn't have enough experience. haha

 

[riser]

So what exactly do some of you other IT people do in the field?

I specialize in:
System Center 2007/2012 products
Active Directory architecture/design/implementation
Windows Server 2003/2008/2012

That's pretty much a full time consulting job for me. Going to be spinning up on Cisco UCS, maybe some Citrix or Cisco later on.

I avoid Exchange.

 

[Beachnative]

So what exactly do some of you other IT people do in the field?

I specialize in:
System Center 2007/2012 products
Active Directory architecture/design/implementation
Windows Server 2003/2008/2012

That's pretty much a full time consulting job for me. Going to be spinning up on Cisco UCS, maybe some Citrix or Cisco later on.

I avoid Exchange.

I understand the Exchange comment completely, a bloated pig that always has it's quirks. Then again the WISP/colo I was the sys admin was using iMail 8.22 and iMGate...That was fun.........not really.
Today I do consulting in SOHO environments part time and fulltime I'm a sys admin for a small finance company definitely NOT the environment I was in before and need to get the heck out...This is boring as can be!!!! I had a job offer but travel would be a problem, my son plays football and nothing will keep me from watching him play. Last year I took a consulting job in Kansas that paid waaaaaay too much to pass up and I missed him playing. That is NOT going to happen this year!

 

[riser]

I day commute, mostly working from home right now. 10 days of working, I had 2 day trips. I can't complain.. I think I might have some 2 & 3 day visits coming up during the week. I used to travel like crazy for a previous job on short notice. I did that for 5 years, got tired of it and said I wouldn't do that crap again. The day trips are nice.. and once I relocate, I'll be home every night since all the clients are in the major city.

 

[MU_Engineer]

It certainly isn't the 70's or 80's anymore, that's why corporate america has to have training to give the new younger generation awards for doing what they get paid to do. The new younger generation wants to start at the top, cut corners to get there and point the finger at others for their mistakes....and I've seen that crap over and over.

That is a bigger load of bullcrap than what you'd find on a 1000 acre feedlot, bud. All I see is the old guys saying the younger ones are stupid, lazy, etc. while they work 30 hours a week and they make the younger ones work 80+. Because, you know, that's what they think they had to do when they were younger. (Well, they'd tell you they worked 200 hours and 8 days a week.) And of course, that's the Way It Should Be. We don't *get* the opportunity to be at the top because apparently you are completely expendable unless you were born before 1965 and think The Bee Gees sounded good.

Their thought that if they get a diploma that guarantees them a job, it doesn't. It give you an edge over someone who doesn't. Real world experience is what counts and backing it up by knowing what the f^%$ you are doing counts too. If you don't have a college education and have the credentials like Riser then you know damn well he or she has fought to get to that position and had someone smart enough to give them a chance. Look at what that individual has done....

Blame that one on the Baby Boomer idiot HR drones were the retards that throw away any resume of anybody under 40 who doesn't have a college degree. (Over 40, they could be sued for failure to hire based on age discrimination.)

I've worked with people that have double masters that couldn't tell the difference from their ass and a hole in the ground. When telling them what to look for I get their condesending attitude telling me of their educational backround, how it didn't work that way in their lab at school and I must be doing something wrong. Their arrogance and immaturity shines through to what they really are.... afraid to make mistakes and say they did. It's a finger pointing world we live in where you are only as good as you were yesterday, but the guys with the diploma always get a better deal then those that don't...regardless of how clueless they really are...

The guys I see that do that are over 50 and throw in a lot of "you young dumb piece of shit" in with their condescention. They also nearly always say how long they have been poorly performing their current job as well.

BTW I have a degree but have been jaded by the lack of drive by today's youth.

We are very disillusioned as the economy absolutely sucks and we are saddled with enormous student loan debt and high interest rates. You demanded that degree is "required" for consideration for almost any job which is any bit better than an absolutely bottom level job like flipping burgers, which is wasn't in the Baby Boomers' day. Our degrees also cost MANY times more than it did Baby Boomers too- they could pay for it with work while we pay enormous interest rates on it to pay for their Medicare and Social Security. (And we pay 15%+ for that too, despite never being able to ever get a single cent back.) We also have to look on as every unqualified 40+ year old gets hired ahead of us because they are a "protected class" in U.S. anti-discrimination laws. (The irony.) We also get treated like crap by the old farts all of the time and are sick and tired of it. That's why we lack drive- we are working for you and hate you, and you made it impossible to work for ourselves by electing a bunch of statist politicians to lock up markets by enacting huge regulatory barriers and also stealing money from us to pay for you. You wouldn't be happy either if you were in our shoes. We're just biding our time....

 

[riser]

That's just it. It takes time, nothing happens over night. You have to deal with the crap up top, to learn about it, to make it right in time when you're up there.

It seems everyone is living life for themselves without regard to the next generation. We are here to make this place better for our kids, our next generation, yet all you hear is people talking about themselves and the generation barriers.

Walk through the shit today and help those who follow it know why they're avoiding it.

 

[MU_Engineer]

That's just it. It takes time, nothing happens over night. You have to deal with the crap up top, to learn about it, to make it right in time when you're up there.

It seems everyone is living life for themselves without regard to the next generation. We are here to make this place better for our kids, our next generation, yet all you hear is people talking about themselves and the generation barriers.

Walk through the shit today and help those who follow it know why they're avoiding it.

Bingo, that last sentence was one of the most insightful things posted here.

 

[Beachnative]

It certainly isn't the 70's or 80's anymore, that's why corporate america has to have training to give the new younger generation awards for doing what they get paid to do. The new younger generation wants to start at the top, cut corners to get there and point the finger at others for their mistakes....and I've seen that crap over and over.

That is a bigger load of bullcrap than what you'd find on a 1000 acre feedlot, bud. All I see is the old guys saying the younger ones are stupid, lazy, etc. while they work 30 hours a week and they make the younger ones work 80+. Because, you know, that's what they think they had to do when they were younger. (Well, they'd tell you they worked 200 hours and 8 days a week.) And of course, that's the Way It Should Be. We don't *get* the opportunity to be at the top because apparently you are completely expendable unless you were born before 1965 and think The Bee Gees sounded good.

Their thought that if they get a diploma that guarantees them a job, it doesn't. It give you an edge over someone who doesn't. Real world experience is what counts and backing it up by knowing what the f^%$ you are doing counts too. If you don't have a college education and have the credentials like Riser then you know damn well he or she has fought to get to that position and had someone smart enough to give them a chance. Look at what that individual has done....

Blame that one on the Baby Boomer idiot HR drones were the retards that throw away any resume of anybody under 40 who doesn't have a college degree. (Over 40, they could be sued for failure to hire based on age discrimination.)

I've worked with people that have double masters that couldn't tell the difference from their ass and a hole in the ground. When telling them what to look for I get their condesending attitude telling me of their educational backround, how it didn't work that way in their lab at school and I must be doing something wrong. Their arrogance and immaturity shines through to what they really are.... afraid to make mistakes and say they did. It's a finger pointing world we live in where you are only as good as you were yesterday, but the guys with the diploma always get a better deal then those that don't...regardless of how clueless they really are...

The guys I see that do that are over 50 and throw in a lot of "you young dumb piece of shit" in with their condescention. They also nearly always say how long they have been poorly performing their current job as well.

BTW I have a degree but have been jaded by the lack of drive by today's youth.

We are very disillusioned as the economy absolutely sucks and we are saddled with enormous student loan debt and high interest rates. You demanded that degree is "required" for consideration for almost any job which is any bit better than an absolutely bottom level job like flipping burgers, which is wasn't in the Baby Boomers' day. Our degrees also cost MANY times more than it did Baby Boomers too- they could pay for it with work while we pay enormous interest rates on it to pay for their Medicare and Social Security. (And we pay 15%+ for that too, despite never being able to ever get a single cent back.) We also have to look on as every unqualified 40+ year old gets hired ahead of us because they are a "protected class" in U.S. anti-discrimination laws. (The irony.) We also get treated like crap by the old farts all of the time and are sick and tired of it. That's why we lack drive- we are working for you and hate you, and you made it impossible to work for ourselves by electing a bunch of statist politicians to lock up markets by enacting huge regulatory barriers and also stealing money from us to pay for you. You wouldn't be happy either if you were in our shoes. We're just biding our time....

I'm telling you the real world in a county where NASA is and there are plenty of lazy older people too, deadwood but today's youth is a bunch of slackers too, not all but a most that I've met. I've worked with a few that had the degrees, the certs and a good line of bullshit.... And lost thousands of dollars in monthly revenue due to their arrogance and denial of making a mistake.
I've supported more than a few subcontractors for NASA, met their IT staff and have been universally unimpressed by their line of questions I was asked by them AFTER explaining in details of a well written contract.

The common denominator with them was coming down to asking questions that were networking 101 and acting like a bunch of test takers that when put in the drivers seat lacked confidence thus making costly errors that were thrown in my lap. I've been in the hot seat and had my job on the line for the incompetence on their part, these were the under thirty crowd...then again every once in a while I meet the truly brilliant ones that even the most experienced 20yr+ DBM are gushing about what they bring to the table or have contributed.
As for not knowing this or experiencing this, I'm unimpressed with you

 

[riser]

That's government though. I've very recently worked government and I can tell you that the only people who stay in government are people who can't get paid more elsewhere. Their pay is higher than their skillset, so they stay. They don't have a clue, they're afraid to make decisions because they don't know.. and no one expects them to do their job.
They hire kids, over pay them, and set the expectation.

I was reading about Edward Snowden this morning bypassing the security audit logs. Everyone seems surprised. I laughed. I used to run security audit logs and I know how easy they really are to bypass in the government. Everyone thinks that the gov't would be very secure, have some of the best stuff, but in reality they're far behind private sector companies. Hell, the government doesn't even follow its own laws that private companies have to follow.

 

[MU_Engineer]

I'm telling you the real world in a county where NASA is and there are plenty of lazy older people too, deadwood but today's youth is a bunch of slackers too, not all but a most that I've met. I've worked with a few that had the degrees, the certs and a good line of bullshit.... And lost thousands of dollars in monthly revenue due to their arrogance and denial of making a mistake.
I've supported more than a few subcontractors for NASA, met their IT staff and have been universally unimpressed by their line of questions I was asked by them AFTER explaining in details of a well written contract.

The common denominator with them was coming down to asking questions that were networking 101 and acting like a bunch of test takers that when put in the drivers seat lacked confidence thus making costly errors that were thrown in my lap. I've been in the hot seat and had my job on the line for the incompetence on their part, these were the under thirty crowd...then again every once in a while I meet the truly brilliant ones that even the most experienced 20yr+ DBM are gushing about what they bring to the table or have contributed.
As for not knowing this or experiencing this, I'm unimpressed with you

You were dealing with the government and its lackeys. That is not the real world by any means and that is why you are seeing what you see.

If you want to see the real world, go work in a hospital, factory, engineering firm, non-government-contractor business, etc.

 

[Reynod]

You sound upset ... its probably time to close this before you turn it into Obama's fault ... somehow.