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First to the people, Toms reviews items sent to them, if Antec, Corsair, Seasonic, P&C don't send them a test sample, it doesn't get reviewed. I'm absolutely positive that if you sent a donation for them to purchase one to get reviewed, they'd buy one and do it, if you don't, quit whining about it.
Secondly, to Toms, for the most part, you do decent to good reviews on most products. But you continually butcher PS reviews in you methodology and assumptions. Every time you do one, you have quite a few people call out your errors and at the very least, tell you to go to jonnyguru to see how it should be done. Please learn. A basic example is this: If 2 PS's have the same power draw and same efficiency, they will each be creating the same amount of heat. The one with the bigger delta of intake temp vs outtake has the better cooling solution as it's getting rid of more heat via air circulation instead of the inefficent way of conduction to the outside casing. Yet you keep getting this wrong. This is the simplest most basic test you can run and understand, yet you don't get it right. How are we to expect anything else done to be correct?
Secondly, to Toms, for the most part, you do decent to good reviews on most products. But you continually butcher PS reviews in you methodology and assumptions. Every time you do one, you have quite a few people call out your errors and at the very least, tell you to go to jonnyguru to see how it should be done. Please learn. A basic example is this: If 2 PS's have the same power draw and same efficiency, they will each be creating the same amount of heat. The one with the bigger delta of intake temp vs outtake has the better cooling solution as it's getting rid of more heat via air circulation instead of the inefficent way of conduction to the outside casing. Yet you keep getting this wrong. This is the simplest most basic test you can run and understand, yet you don't get it right. How are we to expect anything else done to be correct?
JasonAkkerman
Distinguished
- Apr 28, 2008
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[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]can someone explain this to me, because i dont get it.[/citation]
The lower the voltage, the higher the current draw will be to supply the same amount of power (watts). As the current goes up so does the resistance created by wires, components, and trace paths in the circuit board. More resistance is translated into wasted electricity converted into heat.
Another example of this is power lines. The really big ones operate anywhere from 50K to 150K volts. Higher voltage, lower current, less resistance. In the case of power lines this saves a lot of money by not wasting electricity.
The lower the voltage, the higher the current draw will be to supply the same amount of power (watts). As the current goes up so does the resistance created by wires, components, and trace paths in the circuit board. More resistance is translated into wasted electricity converted into heat.
Another example of this is power lines. The really big ones operate anywhere from 50K to 150K volts. Higher voltage, lower current, less resistance. In the case of power lines this saves a lot of money by not wasting electricity.
Thanks for the reviews. I like seeing PSU reviews. They don't really get reviewed as much as the GPUs they power, but I applaud any attempt to thoroughly review these units. I'm not sure why some readers insist on criticizing Toms for the review units manufacturers send to be tested. Still, I would like to see more units with lower outputs. I don't like the idea that the higher the output, the higher the quality. I'm willing to pay for quality, but I don't want a 1k unit. There aren't many high end 400w units on the market, and that's because most buyers way overestimate the amount of power their systems use. I frequently see many people refering to Toms charts for GPUs, not realizing that the power usage is for the TOTAL system draw, not JUST the GPU. Most mainstream quad core + single mid to high end GPU systems idle from 80 - 120w, and max CPU and GPU load are between 280 and 370 watts. With multi gpu setups, all bets are off. But I'm always amazed on forums I read recommendations from other members for PSUs that are twic what they need to be. The lowly Antec 380w Earthwatts 80+ Bronze would be more than sufficient for most systems. The side effect of this is the reluctance of manufacturers to make higher quality 350 - 500 watt units. The Seasonic fanless units are the only sub 500w 80+ Gold. I wish the manufacturers would spread the love around. I like tight voltage regulation and low ripple. I like high efficiency, and I'm willing to pay for it. But the best PSUs are around 600 to 800w, and aren't really appropriate for low power systems. Maybe if users get educated about power supplies, manufacturers will pick up on this and make some higher quality low and medium output units. As a Toms reader, I vote Toms to lead the charge.
joelmartinez
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- Oct 19, 2010
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The reason serious companies like Seasonic, Corsair or Antec are not sending units to Tomshardware for review is because they SUCK at this.
They're not even testing the power supplies in house, they're sending them to a psu manufacturer's lab and then just write their article based on the pretty graphs that lab sends them.
The tests are also a joke, the power supplies are not relevant to what customers would want to get (the best price/performance), the points the "reviewer" gets stuck on are not even considered by real people... this test, much like the one before, is an embarrassment really.
Hell, I'd be willing to guess the power supplies didn't even touch the hands of the reviewer, because maybe this way we would have seen the internals of each power supply and a description of the internal architecture, who is the OEM for each power supply, how's the soldering quality, what can the components inside really do versus what's advertised and so on. Especially in the Rosewill's case, it would have been interesting to know who designs this power supply for Newegg, as Rosewill is basically Newegg's brand.
People that want quality reviews should just check jonnyguru.com/ and compare those reviews with these ones.
Seriously TomsHardware, please stop doing power supply reviews if you can't be bothered to do them right.
They're not even testing the power supplies in house, they're sending them to a psu manufacturer's lab and then just write their article based on the pretty graphs that lab sends them.
The tests are also a joke, the power supplies are not relevant to what customers would want to get (the best price/performance), the points the "reviewer" gets stuck on are not even considered by real people... this test, much like the one before, is an embarrassment really.
Hell, I'd be willing to guess the power supplies didn't even touch the hands of the reviewer, because maybe this way we would have seen the internals of each power supply and a description of the internal architecture, who is the OEM for each power supply, how's the soldering quality, what can the components inside really do versus what's advertised and so on. Especially in the Rosewill's case, it would have been interesting to know who designs this power supply for Newegg, as Rosewill is basically Newegg's brand.
People that want quality reviews should just check jonnyguru.com/ and compare those reviews with these ones.
Seriously TomsHardware, please stop doing power supply reviews if you can't be bothered to do them right.
jimmysmitty
Champion
- Oct 5, 2007
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[citation][nom]killbits[/nom]hmm, maybe next time include a super-high-end psu that doesn't suck.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817139014takes any of the psu's in this review to school.[/citation]
I wouldn't say they suck but not including Corsair, Thermaltake or any of the really good ones is kinda strange.
I got a 850W Corsair TX850 because not only is it 80 Plus but it has surge, over/under volt protection.
I wouldn't say they suck but not including Corsair, Thermaltake or any of the really good ones is kinda strange.
I got a 850W Corsair TX850 because not only is it 80 Plus but it has surge, over/under volt protection.
billcat479
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- Mar 19, 2006
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Question - why are so many of you upset that there are no PSUs included in this review that are already known to be great? If you know it's great, why do you need yet another confirmation of it?
While this has it's merits it also has a problem in this thinking at least to my experience of shifting makers to other countries, using cheaper components and so on.
A known good power supply from last year may find that this years products have not been made as well due to profit over quality issues that I brought up in my previous post so it is really a very good idea to keep a eye on the known best to see if they are still the best.
More important is when buying the best you also pay a best price range and to get burned in this area is not pleasant to say the least.
This is why I think they need to test the best to the worst and put them in their price range to let people judge if paying a bit less for a PS that isn't quite as good but can still do the job with the system they are building. Or someone like me who goes out and buys the best so if there is a stability issue the last thing I have to consider is the power supply causing it. Problems caused by power supplies can be the hardest to troubleshoot. If you don't get quite near it's max outputs buying a second best may be better for some on a budget requirement for these people so to TOM, if your going to do a review on PS's than do it and make it fairly complete to give your readers a better view of what they would like to buy or afford to buy and so on.
Putting just 3 high wattage PS's in a writeup isn't what I'd call a useful review by even the lowest standards. It just makes people more confused about buying a PS. Like I know what these can do sort of but have preferred brands that I'd like to try but don't know how they are being built in this years run.
Note: In my many years of computing I've never considered a Sparkle PS, I know they are about the worst out there from feedback from computer users and other reviews and I got one with a case and had to trash it as it made the system very unstable. This was my first try at PC Power as I read they were at the top of quality and have used their products as a first choice.
It was a live and learn experience kind of thing.
While this has it's merits it also has a problem in this thinking at least to my experience of shifting makers to other countries, using cheaper components and so on.
A known good power supply from last year may find that this years products have not been made as well due to profit over quality issues that I brought up in my previous post so it is really a very good idea to keep a eye on the known best to see if they are still the best.
More important is when buying the best you also pay a best price range and to get burned in this area is not pleasant to say the least.
This is why I think they need to test the best to the worst and put them in their price range to let people judge if paying a bit less for a PS that isn't quite as good but can still do the job with the system they are building. Or someone like me who goes out and buys the best so if there is a stability issue the last thing I have to consider is the power supply causing it. Problems caused by power supplies can be the hardest to troubleshoot. If you don't get quite near it's max outputs buying a second best may be better for some on a budget requirement for these people so to TOM, if your going to do a review on PS's than do it and make it fairly complete to give your readers a better view of what they would like to buy or afford to buy and so on.
Putting just 3 high wattage PS's in a writeup isn't what I'd call a useful review by even the lowest standards. It just makes people more confused about buying a PS. Like I know what these can do sort of but have preferred brands that I'd like to try but don't know how they are being built in this years run.
Note: In my many years of computing I've never considered a Sparkle PS, I know they are about the worst out there from feedback from computer users and other reviews and I got one with a case and had to trash it as it made the system very unstable. This was my first try at PC Power as I read they were at the top of quality and have used their products as a first choice.
It was a live and learn experience kind of thing.
iamtheking123
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- Sep 2, 2010
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A good question that I think went unanswered in this article is how much practical hardware would you have to load up into a desktop in order to reach 1000 or 1200 W? I see on a daily basis people boasting they "need" 1200W power supplies just because they're running a pair of 470s.
wanderlustx2
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- Oct 7, 2008
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[citation][nom]compton[/nom]Thanks for the reviews. I like seeing PSU reviews. They don't really get reviewed as much as the GPUs they power, but I applaud any attempt to thoroughly review these units. I'm not sure why some readers insist on criticizing Toms for the review units manufacturers send to be tested.[/citation]
Because they like to continually bitch about anything regardless. Some people know how to make a point in well mannered way and others like to blather on how big their e-p is rather than giving constrictive criticism.
Because they like to continually bitch about anything regardless. Some people know how to make a point in well mannered way and others like to blather on how big their e-p is rather than giving constrictive criticism.
wanderlustx2
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hangfirew8
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supernatural006
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- Mar 31, 2009
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I don't know if this will help anyone, but I found the 1000W version of the sparkle for $146.00
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0335251
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0335251
Snipergod87
Splendid
- May 26, 2009
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Thirded! You absolutely cannot omit the true power players in the PSU market if you're going to throw out an article like this. Maybe you were on a budget, but at least say you tried to contact Antec, Corsair, Seasonic (second favorite), and Enermax (absolute favorite), just to name a few and tell us they shot you down and offered no submissions. With articles like these they WILL disregard you in the future. I'll take a 700Watt Enermax EMG700AWT over ANY Rosewill @ ANY wattage. And I absolutely will not power my system off a single 12+ rail PSU.
[citation][nom]shloader[/nom]Thirded! You absolutely cannot omit the true power players in the PSU market if you're going to throw out an article like this. Maybe you were on a budget, but at least say you tried to contact Antec, Corsair, Seasonic (second favorite), and Enermax (absolute favorite), just to name a few and tell us they shot you down and offered no submissions. With articles like these they WILL disregard you in the future. I'll take a 700Watt Enermax EMG700AWT over ANY Rosewill @ ANY wattage. And I absolutely will not power my system off a single 12+ rail PSU.[/citation]
Really? First, they have done reviews on those other PSU's, they don't need to include them in every single group.
Secondly, the real complaints we have against these reviews have to do with methodology, assumptions, and conclusions, not the whining as noted above.
Third, Obviously you don't know much about PSU's as there as solid, real reasons why you would used a single 12v rail over multiple in quite a few different scenarios. Jonnyguru has explored that in depth. And they know more than you will every know.
Really? First, they have done reviews on those other PSU's, they don't need to include them in every single group.
Secondly, the real complaints we have against these reviews have to do with methodology, assumptions, and conclusions, not the whining as noted above.
Third, Obviously you don't know much about PSU's as there as solid, real reasons why you would used a single 12v rail over multiple in quite a few different scenarios. Jonnyguru has explored that in depth. And they know more than you will every know.
supernatural006
Distinguished
- Mar 31, 2009
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I know I am a rookie, but I really liked this article and also did more research into the sparkle power supply. I found this review on Johnny Guru: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=212
After reading this and seeing the 1000w version, on sale at microcenter, I decided to get it. Again, for ME this article was great. I can understand why everyone would rather get the Corsair, Antec, or Seasonic over the power supplies mentioned in the article. For me though, the price, and an awesome review, is what made me go for the Sparkle.
After reading this and seeing the 1000w version, on sale at microcenter, I decided to get it. Again, for ME this article was great. I can understand why everyone would rather get the Corsair, Antec, or Seasonic over the power supplies mentioned in the article. For me though, the price, and an awesome review, is what made me go for the Sparkle.
slapshot136
Distinguished
- Sep 24, 2009
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Rosewill only grants a three-year warranty, but in return the PSU costs a little less than OCZ's at $220, too.
you made a typo or something here, the OCZ is cheaper, not the rosewill
you made a typo or something here, the OCZ is cheaper, not the rosewill
I think the air measurement thing is a kind of a tricky way to show a PSU's ability to cool it's components, but I think most of you are wrong. You say they are producing the same heat under the same load, so a higher air temperature would show more heat is being removed from the system than a lower one. This would be right if the volume of air was the same, but what you aren't realizing is that it isn't - the PSUs that cool better do so because they move more air across the parts that need to be cooled. Move enough more air and the same amount of heat gets dispersed in a much larger volume away from the parts - parts stay cooler, air temperature is lower. The "cooler air out means better cooling" is a reasonable enough assumption.
I could see though that somehow the air flow was misdirected, and didn't pass over the parts that needed to be cooled properly. In that case, the reading would be false. The best way, in my opinion, to demonstrate that a PSU cools itself properly is to measure the temperature of the most sensitive parts directly, so there's no question about proper air flow.
😉
I could see though that somehow the air flow was misdirected, and didn't pass over the parts that needed to be cooled properly. In that case, the reading would be false. The best way, in my opinion, to demonstrate that a PSU cools itself properly is to measure the temperature of the most sensitive parts directly, so there's no question about proper air flow.
😉
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