Three Haswell CPUs to Ship With BGA Socket & HD5200 GPU

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[citation][nom]warmon6[/nom]Heck, in the ultrabooks it's worse. There are cpu's like that inside some of them that are labeled as Core i7's....http://ark.intel.com/products/6489 [...] o-3_20-GHz[/citation]
The reason why they are labeled as i7 is because the turbo boost is crazy. 2.0ghz to 3.2ghz. this effectively gives it the power of a desktop i3.
 
[citation][nom]hydac7[/nom]Soldering the CPU to the board is such a stupid ideea , usually you change one or the other and it leaves us with open choices I can actually choose what I want Intel wants to take this away from us[/citation]
How many non-enthusiast ('normal') PC users will ever upgrade a CPU in their entire lifetime? I am one of the geekiest people I know and I have not bothered with CPU-only upgrades in over a decade. Processing power within a given Intel socket's lifespan is nowhere near enough to be worth the trouble when you start with a mid-range model.

Also note that the BGA models have a heavy emphasis on IGP at the expense of 2MB cache, which means they are clearly intended for GPU-less non-enthusiast systems; those that are the most likely to get purchased by people who may not even know or care what a CPU is and companies that need small, cheap power-efficient office PCs that just get the job done.
 
I'm disappointed. Looks like hardware is moving towards mobile devices after all.

Compare i5 2500K and i5 4670K. The latter has 100MHz higher clock speed, 11W lower TDP and better integrated graphics. And that's it? 2500K was released 2 years ago.
 
[citation][nom]borisof007[/nom]I could see this being useful on laptops or all in one systems. 5200 integrated graphics would be OK for a few games on lower settings. On Desktops though? No way.[/citation]These aren't laptop parts, buddy. 65W.

An i7 with BGA? Hah, in a few years only K series will be socketed.[citation][nom]catfishtx[/nom]65W and HD5200 graphics? Sounds like a decent little HTPC.[/citation]If only Intel had decent graphics drivers. I'd rather use a low-profile low-power discrete card from Nvidia or AMD, or just use an AMD APU - and that is mostly motivated by better quality drivers that handle video properly and produce better IQ to boot.
 
[citation][nom]hydac7[/nom]Soldering the CPU to the board is such a stupid ideea , usually you change one or the other and it leaves us with open choices I can actually choose what I want Intel wants to take this away from us[/citation]

It's only a stupid idea if it's the only option avialable. for the general OEMs, it nets Intel greater profit, and it's not like your general consumer would change the CPU in their store bought computer anyway. if it makes things cheaper, and allows for some neat SFF builds for HTPC, mini/micro server, and other uses, I'm all for it
 
[citation][nom]InvalidError[/nom]How many non-enthusiast ('normal') PC users will ever upgrade a CPU in their entire lifetime? I am one of the geekiest people I know and I have not bothered with CPU-only upgrades in over a decade. Processing power within a given Intel socket's lifespan is nowhere near enough to be worth the trouble when you start with a mid-range model.Also note that the BGA models have a heavy emphasis on IGP at the expense of 2MB cache, which means they are clearly intended for GPU-less non-enthusiast systems; those that are the most likely to get purchased by people who may not even know or care what a CPU is and companies that need small, cheap power-efficient office PCs that just get the job done.[/citation]

Would you settle for a CPU because you wanted a certain motherboard? What about settle for a motherboard because you wanted a certain CPU.

With integration you no longer have the option to pick and choose pieces as you wish. Imagine resellers having to stock every possible combination. Aint gonna happen, they will bundle CPU's with same priced motherboards. Low end cpu = low end motherboard. Want a high end motherboard but don't need the i7? Tough luck.
 
See? This is what i meant (on the AMD/Premiere Pro news piece). Intel does anything, it's flamed for it. Had this been AMD, people would have been screaming about how good the APU is.

[citation][nom]borisof007[/nom]I could see this being useful on laptops or all in one systems. 5200 integrated graphics would be OK for a few games on lower settings. On Desktops though? No way.[/citation]
So, AMD's APUs are completely pointless, then?

[citation][nom]killabanks[/nom]a few years ago i dreamed that one day we can build laptops the way we do desktops.. screw you intel for ruining my dream[/citation]
Because AMD and/or others obviously let you do it? There are PGA sockets for laptops as well. And in all honestly, this isn't Intel's fault, you need a OEM to provide the case materials and all, so that you could fit in a mini ITX mobo. Intel is a chip maker FFS, not a system integrator, OEM, etc.

[citation][nom]wanderer11[/nom]There's an i5 with 2 cores and hyper threading (4570t)? Just call it an i3 intel, please don't make the name convention any worse than it already is.[/citation]
It's not an i3, it gets hardware accelerated AES encryption and few more things that i3s lack.
Things are similar on the AMD side, look at the A6 lineup.

[citation][nom]AncientNoob[/nom]What an unnecessary mess. 17 units and not even counting the i3s yet.Why can't power usage be done in the BIOS or something. Just have an i7 4770 and let the builder choose T mode or S mode or whatever. And watch out for the 2 core surprise on the i5 4570T! Don't get started on the random feature removal surprises on K and others (VT-D, vPro)...[/citation]
It's actually only 5 model numbers, for all of them higher model number is better. Within each number, there is a subdivision based on the suffix, imo this is probably the best way to go about it, rather than have this huge part list of numbers.

Power usage IS controlled by the BIOS, though i'm not sure TDP measurement/calibration can be left to it. But yeah, maybe you could do that. But then wouldn't OEMs simply sell you a 4770 and lock out a portion of the chip without telling you? Or something. I dunno, rather let Intel do it than OEMs.

Again, the -T i5 shouldn't be a surprise anymore because that trend's been around for three generations. I'm not sure what else they could have done except call it an i4, because it does have features of an i5, despite having the i3's core count.

There's the non-K versions, which are cheaper, available for less that do have VT-d. (Do people who run VMs overclock? Sincere question).

[citation][nom]royalcrown[/nom]Dear Intel, please make it fit in my 1155 I just bought. STOP changing goddamn sockets every 5 seconds. Thank you.[/citation]
Does it really matter? I mean, SB motherboards could take an IB cpu, and we know that SB->Haswell there's little to be gained. The next time you'd change the CPU you'd have stuff like DDR4 and all (Skylake) so you'd change the mobo/socket anyway.

It would be nice, sure, to have a socket last more than 3 years, but seeing the way Intel is moving to make its CPUs SOC-like, i don't think it's really possible for them without increasing redundant circuitry.

[citation][nom]atminside[/nom]What is the HD5200 comparable too? X1950pro/7800GT ?[/citation]
GT 650M.
HD5200=GT3e.

[citation][nom]nukemaster[/nom]Intel WANTS system integration. For all in ones and sff, this will be useful.At the end of the day, You will still be able to build your own system(with all the other cpus).[/citation]
One person who makes sense and was thumbed down. +1. This is for AiOs and SFF PCs. LGA isn't going anywhere.
 
[citation][nom]anti-painkilla[/nom]Would you settle for a CPU because you wanted a certain motherboard? What about settle for a motherboard because you wanted a certain CPU. With integration you no longer have the option to pick and choose pieces as you wish. Imagine resellers having to stock every possible combination. Aint gonna happen, they will bundle CPU's with same priced motherboards. Low end cpu = low end motherboard. Want a high end motherboard but don't need the i7? Tough luck.[/citation]
LGA IS STILL GOING TO BE HERE FFS. OEMs don't really let you pick your motherboard anyway.
 
Nobody knows for sure what GT3 or 3e are capable of, that anandtech video is as dodgy as the one on skyrim, if it was possible they could do both Dirt3 and Skyrim maxed at 1080 they would have come out with it by now. Since GT2 which is about 65% component strength of GT3 can only muster 10-15% over HD4000 at higher clocks then GT3 will not be anywhere near a GT650m which is pretty mid high end with serious muscle to play with AA and eye candy. I think this is a little market bafuddling going on and again, no frame rates given, it may look smooth but it may also only be achieving 20FPS which is still clean to the eye until it spikes. Also it was a demo so that again doesn't count live or GTFO.
 

The FX-8350 is 4.0 on stock. The clock speed is only one of the many factors that determine how good a CPU is. This is why an Ivy i5 @ 3.4GHz is still going to stomp, say, an AMD FX-4100 @ 5GHz.
 


It would be extremely dangerous!
It would mean same situation that we now have in CPU. Only one manufacturer that can practically ask what ever it wants from its products and delay the development because no competitors can come even near. It would be really bad situation.

 


It was in reference to CPU's being soldered to the motherboards. Essentially he is correct that you usually upgrade the MOBO and CPU at the same time, but having them all soldered would lower customisation. That was all I was trying to state.

 

First, stop and think about how many actual motherboard variations are actually worth jack to most people who would buy a device based on an embedded CPU. Does the choice of motherboard actually matter when nearly every feature most people are likely to care about is built directly into the CPU?

Second, most devices integrating BGA CPUs are likely to be all-in-ones, tablets, ultrabooks or proprietary SFFs that have little to no internal expansion options and non-standard HSF, so most build options are already taken out of DIY builders' hands anyway... only motherboard choices are what the SFF/AiO/tablet manufacturer makes available.

Third, how many people actually need any of the tiny incremental features from the 100s of motherboard variants out there? IIRC, Haswell with GT3 graphics has on-package chipset, so distinguishing motherboards based on chipset is non-applicable and that already kills off 80% of potential motherboard variants. The BGA CPUs are clock-locked, so all overclocking-oriented features are also irrelevant, which kills off another ~70% of potential motherboard models that try to distinguish themselves based on beefed up power delivery. Since BGA CPUs are most likely to get into entry-level systems which are clearly not intended for enthusiasts, any fancy IO options are almost guaranteed to go to waste, so this kills off nearly all other potential motherboard variants. We are down to pretty much one CPU model = one motherboard model.

So at the end of the day, there may not be any variants of BGA-based boards beyond picking the CPU and motherboard size if/where applicable. Also, nothing forces motherboard manufacturers to offer all three i5-4xxxR variants on all form factors either... or offer any of them in any (standard) form factor at all.

Personally, the only add-in-board I have put in either of my last two PCs is the GPU and after GT3, I might not even need that in my next PC. The motherboard choice is of very little importance to me as long as it is both reliable and affordable, so BGA CPUs are perfectly fine with me if it makes them ~$25 cheaper (cost of socket and part of the cost of the discrete chipset on LGA motherboards) than their socketed counterparts.

Intel's upcoming BGA-based Haswell solutions may not be ideal for everyone but what Intel packs in them will certainly be enough to address most people's everyday needs in more convenient form factors.
 

The previous comment system was not exactly ideal either but the new one is indeed seriously messed up when on the article/story page. The biggest problem I noticed with it being the apparent lack of a 'reply' button to comments or if it has a reply method (aside from replying to the story without quoting a comment), I did not find it.

Once you switch to the forum format by clicking on the "XX replies" quote icon, you're back to normal.
 


I never said there is no performance gain. I said that the average consumer would not benefit, because the average consumer doesn't do anything that would tax the CPU to the point where an overclock would benefit them.

Clock speeds aren't everything.
 

Enthusiasts have a hard time coping with the idea of "good enough" for the non-enthusiast market that probably accounts for more than 90% of end-user PC sales.

I would be curious to know the proportions of end-user CPU shipments and the actual proportion of those end-users that actually make sufficient use of their CPU to actually justify their purchase. I know even an i3-3220 would already be overkill for most of my friends and family.
 

An i3 with Turbo Boost? Nope.
It is features like Turbo Boost, Cache size, VT-d etc. that currently distinguish the iSeries CPUs from one another, not core count. Even in the current line-up, you will find that there is a dual-core i5. It's main differences compared to the other i5 CPUs are the lower TDP, reduced cache size, and Hyper-threading, to "make-up" for the lower core count. But it still is an i5, albeit a low power -but still powerful- one.


Not a surprise, has happened before AND it has a "T" in the end, it's a low power chip. Also, for those who hate "surprises", the specs are always available at ark.intel.com.

 
they're strugging a bit getting the TDP's down. quite surprised really, expected lower. All their good engineers are now on the mobile and smartphone chips tho, so expect modest gains from here on in...until desktop irrelevance in three years. Keep taking the tablets.
 
that's when lifes gonna start suxing..I really hope they did not do this with all boards in the near future if I catch wind they will im buying several motherboards and cpus ram ecttt build last me forever and if I decide to but all chip board I will but at least I will have that option
 
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