Tim Cook to Staff: Apple is Not Going to Change

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I think there's plenty of evidence that the general public is not any more interested in building their computers than they are in building their fridge, TV, or any other COMMODITY. Apple charges a premium for the design of their products, the "Apple Tax" as its been called. ...and since most people aren't worried about how many FPS they might get in Crysis or WoW, they're not overly worried about extracting every last bit of performance from their COMMIDITY ...that's all a computer is to most people...a COMMODITY. Therefore, they don't need to build a box and extract every last possible FPS out of it. Some just want a functional, reasonable looking, trouble-free COMMIDITY known as a computer. Apple offers several. If Cole Haan (that's a brand of shoe for you young-uns), Coach, BMW, Louis Vitton, and Rolex can overcharge for their products (based on design) why can't Apple? The answer is they can. ...and again I say, if you don't like Apple's products don't buy them. Vote with your wallet. Surely your vote will count.

 


Sure, not everybody wants to OC and play games. That's fine. But in my book, before you buy something, you have to know what you're paying for. If the same level of performance can be achieved for half the price, I don't see why pay double.
 


A Ford Mustang Cobra may be as fast and handle as well as Porsche 911. So, in your philosophy, buying the Porsche would be dumb. Interesting. I think I finally understand.
 


I knew you're gonna employ cars again as an analogy! 😀 Well, yes, unless I have loads of money to spare. I already applied that concept when buying my motorbike and it worked great.

Just one note: Apple is NOT as fast as similarly priced custom or, for instance, Asus. Look at this. Or this (look for my post where I give links to the Asus laptops to blow away MBPs).
 


I like cars as an analogy because they're something I think everyone can relate to. Again, I've read that OS X is able to do more with less hardware. That may just be Apple fangirls making up something to feed their hardware insecurities. There are certainly computers with faster hardware for less money than what Apple offers.
 


That's true, but only to a certain extent. For example, you can expect a computer with Mac OS X, i5 @ 2.0 GHz and 4GB RAM (disregard GPU for now) perform about the same as Wintel i5 @ 2.4 GHz and 4GB RAM. Just an estimate, also what I've heard, not sure whether it's true. Thing is, such a Mac will cost double such a PC.
 



Hmm....So, for $298 you can get equal performance/form factor as this: http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC815LL/A?select=select&product=MC815LL%2FA&mco=MjMzOTQ1MjI ???

okay, add another $350 for mouse/monitor/keyboard/additional 2GB of RAM... just to be fair/realistic. So let's look at micro atx prebuilt solutions for $950USD and see if they're more than .4Ghz faster by known companies.
 
[citation][nom]lesz422[/nom]again comments that Apple dont have a clue or just make and design bad products?[/citation]

They have the best marketing team on earth and people in general are gullible morons. McDonalds has served "billions and billions" does that make their food good quality and healthy for you? Sales alone do not a good product make. I hope those marketing people are paid a fortune, they deserve every penny.
 
[citation][nom]fyend[/nom]They have the best marketing team on earth and people in general are gullible morons. McDonalds has served "billions and billions" does that make their food good quality and healthy for you? Sales alone do not a good product make. I hope those marketing people are paid a fortune, they deserve every penny.[/citation]

So why is it, precisely, in your opinion that apple products are bought by...what did you write...ahhh..."gullible morons"? ...because you can get a Wintel box with a faster cpu/graphics card for less money?? Please do elaborate.
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]Fixed.[/citation]
Poh-Tay-Toe, Poh-Taah-Toe...
Doesn't matter why it works. But it works. The fact is, the market likes the dumbed-down elegantly (elegant is a synonym for simple, BTW) designed products. And people buy the music from them. And it is not Apples fault that the federal governments of the world have horrible patent precedents/laws... It is Apple's job to make money. It is the government's job to say what is and is not eligible for a patent... And they do a horrible job at it...
 
What a bunch of lame Apple bashers. Go make your Applesauce where someone actually cares.
 
[citation][nom]Halcyon[/nom]A Ford Mustang Cobra may be as fast and handle as well as Porsche 911. So, in your philosophy, buying the Porsche would be dumb. Interesting. I think I finally understand.[/citation]

here's the fallacy of your analogy, let's use a real example instead, hp and apple both have their mother boards made by foxconn, they both use the same hard drive/rom, memory, cpu, etc. etc. manufacturers the only differences are the case. just a different face plate and a different operating system, while that same exact machine hp sells at walmart for $400-$600 apple decides their logo and case face plate and apparantly the operating system are worth $2,000-$3,000 more.
this is not a ford mustang vs. a porsche. this is just a regular ford focus vs a ford focus but with porsche stickers and porsche styled body on it and the voice and leadership of chairman Moa in the navigation system, and he says " NO You can't go THERE or do that" every time you try to enjoy freedom. same everything else.
 
The problem faced by Cook and Apple is that sometimes a company needs to change and adapt. There may be a future situation where Jobs would have decided that a change was needed, but Cook will be so determined not to change anything that he ends up making poor decisions based on the mantra "don't change". In other words, you cannot lead by just doing what someone else did, or by trying to guess what they would have done. You become irrelevant, fast.
 


I see your point and I understand it, but I think I need to see the EXACT same machine you've noted from HP made by Apple where the HP is more than $1000 less as you've stated. Remember things like weight, battery life, screen resolution, backlit keyboard, are paramount.
 
[citation][nom]aaronyo[/nom]How did Tom's get to be a site with some of the most consistent and most banal Apple bashing on the web? @Tom's editors, why no response ever to the stream of comment garbage that appears on your site? Satisfied with these contributors? Enjoy writing for them?[/citation]

I understand that the vast majority of our user-base are die-hard PC enthusiasts so I've come to expect these kinds of comments on any Apple-related content. Speaking as an editor, I find the bashing of any company to be immature and tasteless (and, quite frankly, kind of boring), but people are entitled to their own opinions. We have a dedicated team of mods that exists to remove comments that are against our terms of service, but it's not fair to ban people just because we don't agree with what they're saying.
 


This is not about bashing a certain company. If Apple makes a nice PC/laptop/phone that costs a reasonable amount of money for the hardware it has, I'll buy it (if I'll need a new one, that is), why not? I don't care about brands as much as for value for money. I used to dislike Samsung; now that they've came up with great product (Galaxy line), I'll prefer it to any other similar product (unless somebody actually comes up with something EVEN better, lol).

But Apple insults the very essence of a hardware enthusiast. They... ah, I'm not going into it again, I'm sick of repeating the same thing over and over. I understand they're not targeting the enthusiasts, but I've seen too many people wasting a lot of money on their products just to do something they could do for half or even quarter the price. It's a lie to your face, a seemingly "magical" product that doesn't really do anything new. I remember about 4 years ago I didn't even know what Macs really are and I used to think the same thing: "Wow, Macs are expensive, shiny and they run a different OS. They must be REALLY cool!" (Though, I always hated iPods, lol) Then I came over to my friends' house and noticed an MBP on the table. I was like: "Wow, you guys have a MAC? Lemme try it! Please-please-please!" They said "sure, go right ahead!" After 30 minutes of desperately trying to control this huge USELESS touchpad (don't know what people see in them, I much prefer the Asus M50Vm's touchpad type - LIU, a great thing) and struggling with Mac OS, I gave up. I thought to myself: "This must take a lot of time getting used to!" Then I learned two things: 1) Mac OS is very similar to Linux 2) my friends told me how much the MBP cost them and what "magical" hardware it has inside: C2D, 2 or 4 GB RAM, which was GOOD by that time's standards... but *totally* not worth the price. I've tried Macs several times more after, each time with no luck. Shortly after, Win7 came out, fixing all the notorius problems of XP and Vista, and I've finally realized that there's nothing special at all about Macs. If you just have too much money and want to seem "cool" among teenagers, sure, get a Mac. Same goes for other overpriced shiny things - Sony Vaio, certain Samsung laptops... I used to think the same about ThinkPads, but after realizing how great they are for programming on the move, I've changed my mind. So, I'm not bashing just Apple. I'm bashing everything which is overpriced for no reason.

If Halcyon is reading this, he'll probably mention Mac Pros, aka Apple workstation. Again, you're *right* about workstations having a demand from professionals, but you're *wrong* about Apple ones being the best. I really don't think that only they can take dual Xeons, which you seem to love so much. And I really don't believe that they're not twice as expensive as the similar config from the other manufacturer or custom-built.

That said, I really appreciate that Tom's editors actually respond to comments, explaining why has something been done this way and not the other. I've seen it happening more and more on this website, and it's good, because there's a lot of whiners who complain that Tom's allows Apple bashing or favors AMD... this is silly and I'm glad that the editors can come up with a reasonable explanation for published content. Not that we should care what they say (hey, don't like the article, think it's biased? Don't read!), but at least it makes their accusations even more pathetic.
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]This is not about bashing a certain company. If Apple makes a nice PC/laptop/phone that costs a reasonable amount of money for the hardware it has, I'll buy it (if I'll need a new one, that is), why not? I don't care about brands as much as for value for money. I used to dislike Samsung; now that they've came up with great product (Galaxy line), I'll prefer it to any other similar product (unless somebody actually comes up with something EVEN better, lol).But Apple insults the very essence of a hardware enthusiast. They... ah, I'm not going into it again, I'm sick of repeating the same thing over and over. I understand they're not targeting the enthusiasts, but I've seen too many people wasting a lot of money on their products just to do something they could do for half or even quarter the price. It's a lie to your face, a seemingly "magical" product that doesn't really do anything new. I remember about 4 years ago I didn't even know what Macs really are and I used to think the same thing: "Wow, Macs are expensive, shiny and they run a different OS. They must be REALLY cool!" (Though, I always hated iPods, lol) Then I came over to my friends' house and noticed an MBP on the table. I was like: "Wow, you guys have a MAC? Lemme try it! Please-please-please!" They said "sure, go right ahead!" After 30 minutes of desperately trying to control this huge USELESS touchpad (don't know what people see in them, I much prefer the Asus M50Vm's touchpad type - LIU, a great thing) and struggling with Mac OS, I gave up. I thought to myself: "This must take a lot of time getting used to!" Then I learned two things: 1) Mac OS is very similar to Linux 2) my friends told me how much the MBP cost them and what "magical" hardware it has inside: C2D, 2 or 4 GB RAM, which was GOOD by that time's standards... but *totally* not worth the price. I've tried Macs several times more after, each time with no luck. Shortly after, Win7 came out, fixing all the notorius problems of XP and Vista, and I've finally realized that there's nothing special at all about Macs. If you just have too much money and want to seem "cool" among teenagers, sure, get a Mac. Same goes for other overpriced shiny things - Sony Vaio, certain Samsung laptops... I used to think the same about ThinkPads, but after realizing how great they are for programming on the move, I've changed my mind. So, I'm not bashing just Apple. I'm bashing everything which is overpriced for no reason. If Halcyon is reading this, he'll probably mention Mac Pros, aka Apple workstation. Again, you're *right* about workstations having a demand from professionals, but you're *wrong* about Apple ones being the best. I really don't think that only they can take dual Xeons, which you seem to love so much. And I really don't believe that they're not twice as expensive as the similar config from the other manufacturer or custom-built.That said, I really appreciate that Tom's editors actually respond to comments, explaining why has something been done this way and not the other. I've seen it happening more and more on this website, and it's good, because there's a lot of whiners who complain that Tom's allows Apple bashing or favors AMD... this is silly and I'm glad that the editors can come up with a reasonable explanation for published content. Not that we should care what they say (hey, don't like the article, think it's biased? Don't read!), but at least it makes their accusations even more pathetic.[/citation]

Amk, of course I'm reading this. Very reasonable points but I'm not sure where I said Mac Pros were one of the best...but I may have, I do so love my Mac Pro. :) However, now that you mention it why is a Mac Pro not one of the best workstations? Plenty of power, trust me on that. I can't think of much professional work it can't do. Heck, it can even do a little casual gaming with its little 5870. Could a Dell or HP workstation with a better graphics card do better at CAD/CAM/CAE? Probably. Would they game better? Maybe, but why one anyone want them to, that's not what they're for. Anywho, I love my Mac Pro, yes it was expensive, yadda yadda. So is a Mcintosh amplifier. As you know, though, I'm also an avid PC fan...I've years of custom PC builds under my belt and I'm glad I've been fortunate enough to have both high-end pcs and high-end Macs. I feel fortunate in that.

There is a lot of uneducated bashing of Macs on this site, and that's completely okay. Apple doesn't care, us Mac users certainly don't (at least I don't). If I were to go to Mac Forums I'm sure I could quickly locate some PC bashing. That's all kiddy stuff to and everyone has a right to their opinion...and I respect yours because you consistently make a lot of good points and make me think. However, a Mac Pro is not 2x as expensive as HP or Dell WKS to which it should and is meant to be compared. ...and I think if you build a dual Xeon WKS you'll find its not inexpensive. Really. A dual Xeon Mac Pro is not meant to be compared to someone's i7 2600K gaming machine, that should be obvious but perhaps its not.

As JmC wrote the Apple bashing is expected on a PC hardware site, because you can build a cheaper machine that games better.

I think our next discussion should be building that dual Xeon workstation , with workstation class parts and seeing how it prices out, giving it an appropriate markup, and see just why everyone that wants a workstation should avoid prebuilt and how Apple is grossly overcharging. We know theirs an Apple tax, okay, that's fine...but the exercise would be fun.
 

Okay, here's several WKS configurations...nothing fancy but they're as similar as I was allowed to configure them. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Cheapest option? Build it yourself...but we knew this. Funny that the MacPro is not the most expensive though. So, if I'm in the market for a workstation which probably means I'm not too cost-restricted...it's gonna cost to do get that high-performance Renderer box.
 


You keep coming back to workstations; and I can't say that much on the matter, except repeating that Mac Pros aren't the only PCs that can take a couple of Xeons.

That, and don't forget there're plenty of other Apple products that deserve some bashing since they target a "common" user :)
 



I know, I know. Okay, you can bash my little MacBook Pro laptop. ...but I really do like it. Its like a little Mini-Me to the my Mac Pro. ...but I realized last night that I'm not as enamored with my iPhone as I thought I was. Surprise surprise. I think its lack of Flash has started to grate on me. ...and I'm tired of mobile websites. It'd be nice to have a phone that rendered full websites without having to do an extra step like clicking the "full website" link.

I'm just tired. Hurricane Irene is knocking at our door and the rain is making me tired I guess.
 
[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]So apple intend to continue to battle superior products in court with patent warfare rather than better products and true innovations. Amazing!He looks like a pre-owned car-salesman much like Steve, perhaps he can fool people into buying medicre hardware for premium prices too and believing they got the deal of their lives - time will tell![/citation]

You droid-heads continue to tout better HW and the fact that you can set your background as advanced. Sorry, a more useable and reliable device wins. I haven't bought either yet but I hear more swearing and cussing from my android friends over lack of updates and things that don't work than I do from iPhone friends. I stick with my free work blackberry :-( for now but lean towards iPhone.
 
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