Torn between I5, I7, and Xeon for gaming (mostly strategy games).

[MrCanEHdian]

So I've been looking at parts for ages now, slowly getting ready to build a gaming rig. I've reduced by graphical "needs/wants" from a GTX 780 to either a GTX 770 or 760, but I am torn on the right CPU for me.

I keep reading that games like Civ 5 are highly CPU dependent, and am therefore having trouble choosing the right one.
I was set on the i5 4670k, but now I don't know if some Xeon models might be better like the 1230 v3. I'm pretty sure i don't want an I7, I don't know if I'm willing to dish out that kind of capital at the moment. I'm currently struggling with motherboards and CPUs. What should I choose, keeping in my 90% of my PC gaming will be RTS and turn based strategy games, with big maps, lots of AI/human players, and lots going on (with emphasis on SoaSE Rebellion, Civ 5, Civ Beyond Earth (don't know specs yet), Wargame: Red Dragon, Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes, etc". I need a good strategy and possibly simulation game CPU. I will also play Day Z standalone and possibly FC3 or other shooters and RPGs. No plans for future games yet except Civ Beyond Earth But i want to be ready.

Thank you for your time.

 

[CTurbo]

I trust any B85 or H87 motherboard by Asus, ASRock, MSI, or Gigabyte. You don't HAVE to spend over $100 to get good quality.

 

[natostanco]

I would buy a xeon for gaming only in a dual socket setup 😛, otherwise there is no point in choosing a xeon over an haswell...unless you don't care about overclocking and the price is lower

 

[JOOK-D]

I would buy a xeon for gaming only in a dual socket setup 😛, otherwise there is no point in choosing a xeon over an haswell...unless you don't care about overclocking and the price is lower

That's exactly why there is a point in a Xeon 1230v3. 😀

i7 4770 performance closer to the price of an i5.

 

[CTurbo]

The Xeon e3 1230v3 IS Haswell

 

[MrCanEHdian]

I trust any B85 or H87 motherboard by Asus, ASRock, MSI, or Gigabyte. You don't HAVE to spend over $100 to get good quality.

I took a look at them, and their prices are nice. That being said, I do like the option to overclock, although I probably wouldn't do that for a bit. Also, the Z97s seem to be worth waiting for.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

The Xeon e3 1230v3 IS Haswell

I'm beginning to really lean towards the Xeon e3 now, I don't think I'd stick with it for more than two years (although you never know), but it would be nice for a couple years, especially since I don't know anything about how to overclock, let alone do it "safely".

 

[CTurbo]

Overclocking is over-rated IMO. You pay so much extra to do it and it's almost never necessary.

 

[WhiteSnake91]

jesus christ there is SO much misinformation about Xeons regarded as being "bad" out there it's sad.....to put it simply, they're an i7 4770 (or 3770 if you get the ivy bridge version) without any built in graphics. You get the very strong intel cpu with hyperthreading, so 8 threads total. I see alot of people still rocking those old i7s and not many in comparison still with the old i5s. That Xeon or i7 is going to age very well and be great for MANY years to come. If I had known about the xeons when I was building my pc I would have gotten one over my i5.

I agree with CTurbo that overclocking is overrated. I keep trying to find a topic here I book marked where a guy decided to get the Xeon and paired it with a z77 motherboard just for the fact he had a bad experience with his motherboard corroding and leaking haha. I just thought it was an interesting read...can't seem to find it though.

The xeon is future proof with its 8 threads. And before anybody cries about there not being "future proof" , then, you better not gripe at me about saying that when all the AMD people keep spouting that off about their 6 and 8 cores being good for the future too >_>

 

[MrCanEHdian]

Overclocking is over-rated IMO. You pay so much extra to do it and it's almost never necessary.

So most people could get away without overclocking? If I could get away without doing it, I think I would prefer to. I would be treading into uncharted waters with overclocking (because I know nothing about it), and the extra heat and voltage requirements kinda sketch me out a bit. It must put a lot of stress on the CPU.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

jesus christ there is SO much misinformation about Xeons regarded as being "bad" out there it's sad.....to put it simply, they're an i7 4770 (or 3770 if you get the ivy bridge version) without any built in graphics. You get the very strong intel cpu with hyperthreading, so 8 threads total. I see alot of people still rocking those old i7s and not many in comparison still with the old i5s. That Xeon or i7 is going to age very well and be great for MANY years to come. If I had known about the xeons when I was building my pc I would have gotten one over my i5.

I agree with CTurbo that overclocking is overrated. I keep trying to find a topic here I book marked where a guy decided to get the Xeon and paired it with a z77 motherboard just for the fact he had a bad experience with his motherboard corroding and leaking haha. I just thought it was an interesting read...can't seem to find it though.

The xeon is future proof with its 8 threads. And before anybody cries about there not being "future proof" , then, you better not gripe at me about saying that when all the AMD people keep spouting that off about their 6 and 8 cores being good for the future too >_>

Good, very good. An integrated graphics card is a "waste" of money for gamer, right? Or does the IGPU support the dedicated GPU in some sort of bizzare SLI? I mean, you essentially save $100 or so on the Xeon, is the only difference between the upper tier i7s the lack of the integrated GPU? No loss for me. I am really leaning towards Xeon now, the fact that it was designed for servers bothered me at first, but it's becoming more and more apparent that that does not matter.

Was the individual's mobo failure due to the Xeon or due to something else?

I've read about AMD CPUs being more "future proofed" because AMD Mobos change their sockets much less frequently. Would an AMD mobos and CPU be better then, because it would "last longer"? Or is that mostly fictitious?

 

[CTurbo]

Overclocking is a waste when you already have a cpu with very strong single thread performance like pretty much any Haswell cpu. Overclocking IS helpful when you have a cpu with really weak single thread performance like pretty much all AMDs.


Integrated graphics is completely useless to gamers. The second you plug in any video card, the igpu is disabled.


AMDs are absolutely NOT more future proof. It's quite the opposite really. Going a long time without changing/updating sockets is not a good thing. The current AM3+ socket is outdated and in bad need of replacing. AMD fanboys claim their cpus are more future proof because the new xbox and ps4 both use 8 core AMDs, but that has NOTHING to do with the PC gaming market. The 8 core cpus found in the game systems are in now way related to the 8 core FX cpus found in PCs. The fact is, the cpus found in the game systems are super low powered specialty cpus created for the sole purpose of xbox and ps4 gaming and would make TERRIBLE PC cpus.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

Overclocking is a waste when you already have a cpu with very strong single thread performance like pretty much any Haswell cpu. Overclocking IS helpful when you have a cpu with really weak single thread performance like pretty much all AMDs.


Integrated graphics is completely useless to gamers. The second you plug in any video card, the igpu is disabled.


AMDs are absolutely NOT more future proof. It's quite the opposite really. Going a long time without changing/updating sockets is not a good thing. The current AM3+ socket is outdated and in bad need of replacing. AMD fanboys claim their cpus are more future proof because the new xbox and ps4 both use 8 core AMDs, but that has NOTHING to do with the PC gaming market. The 8 core cpus found in the game systems are in now way related to the 8 core FX cpus found in PCs. The fact is, the cpus found in the game systems are super low powered specialty cpus created for the sole purpose of xbox and ps4 gaming and would make TERRIBLE PC cpus.

Would overclocking a Haswell processor make more sense after it's like 4 years outdated? Or would the overclock's gains be a joke in comparison to whatever is "new" in the future? Ok, so absolutely no use for me to go with $100 premium on the i7 4770k then. Basically, the Xeon is as good for significantly less, at least for gamers.

So the old socket limits the components potential then, I'm guessing? Ya, I wondered if the next gen consoles would make AMD more "relevant" or superior to Intel. Does Mantle have anything on Intel? Right! The architecture for the console CPUs are different from the architectures of the PC CPUs, right?

Ya, the PS4 is great, I like it, but it seems to be showing limitations already. I wouldn't want to rely on it for very long. Thanks for all the awesome answers!

 

[WhiteSnake91]

no the guy's old core 2 duo motherboard leaking was totally unrelated, he just chose a motherboard with very long cap life rating, something I've never even considered worrying about.

I'd go with the haswell Xeon and rest easy for many years to come. Pair it with the gtx 770 if you can, but, if not, the gtx 760 is very good for 1080p gaming as well. 8gb of ram, a 120-250gb ssd for your OS and a couple games, a 1-2tb mechanical hdd, and your case of choice, and good power supply, and you're good to go 😛

 

[CTurbo]

The thing about "future proofing" is, a regular i5 4570 will outlive(be relevant longer) a single GTX780 by years. It will outlive two 780s running in SLI too. You could use the same old 4570 to power the "new" 2017 (insert new super video card here) GTX100000 lol


Bottom line is, cpus outlive gpus by a large margin.

People fear that ALL games will SOON require 8 cores to run smoothly, and I'm sure they will eventually, which is why the Xeon get recommended over the i5.

 

[WhiteSnake91]

yeah that's true, I still see people rocking the first gen i7s and even some with the first gen i5s, but not nearly as many as the i7s. A good cpu will last you through many graphics cards upgrades, which honestly aren't even needed if you're not super nitpicky about every little detail cranked up 😛

 

[logainofhades]

Count me in the 1230v3 crowd. I really want one myself. Just lack the funds to do the build the way I want to.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

no the guy's old core 2 duo motherboard leaking was totally unrelated, he just chose a motherboard with very long cap life rating, something I've never even considered worrying about.

I'd go with the haswell Xeon and rest easy for many years to come. Pair it with the gtx 770 if you can, but, if not, the gtx 760 is very good for 1080p gaming as well. 8gb of ram, a 120-250gb ssd for your OS and a couple games, a 1-2tb mechanical hdd, and your case of choice, and good power supply, and you're good to go 😛

Ahhh long life is something I'm also worried about lmao. I know it's a waste worrying about things like that, too many unknown variables in that kind of stuff. I think I'll go with the Haswell, and either a GTX 760, 770, or 780 depending on my budget at the time. I was wondering, would 16gb of ram be worth getting, or is that overkill? I can't seem to justify adding an SSD into my build, for me, they're like an extra $120, I don't mind longish load times that much. Other than making the PC boot up faster and things load faster, are there any additional benefits? Like, perhaps, taking stress off of some other component(s)? I need to find good PSUs for good prices, people say Seagate or Antec are the best by far. I also need a nicely priced case with good airflow, I don't care about how it looks. Honestly, for HDD, I'll likely go with 500Gbs, I only download games from Steam (I may try GoG or something else with good prices too), but I won't download movies or music. I also don't torrent or do any of the "pirating", less for ethical considerations and more for fear of viruses. I know you read reviews on the program... But I can't shake the fear that not all viruses are super obvious and everyone will notice them.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

The thing about "future proofing" is, a regular i5 4570 will outlive(be relevant longer) a single GTX780 by years. It will outlive two 780s running in SLI too. You could use the same old 4570 to power the "new" 2017 (insert new super video card here) GTX100000 lol


Bottom line is, cpus outlive gpus by a large margin.

People fear that ALL games will SOON require 8 cores to run smoothly, and I'm sure they will eventually, which is why the Xeon get recommended over the i5.

Xeon it is then, I will see closer to build time whether a new Xeon comes out for a good price that is superior to the current CPU. Would a GTX 780 be worth getting now for its price, or would waiting a few years be more worthwhile?

 

[logainofhades]

In a few years, there will be something far better than the GTX 780. Waiting years for something, in the PC world, is not a good idea.

 

[CTurbo]

There's always going to be something better no matter what you get or how long you wait. That's just how it is. Whatever comes out nest year will be better than this year, whatever comes out in two years will be better than next years...

I can understand waiting a few weeks for something specific to be released, but that's it.


ssds are great and they don't have to cost $120. You can get a good 120-128GB ssd for as low as the $66 Crucial M500 and many others can be had for $79-89. Installing windows on a ssd makes windows feel really snappy. Everything done in windows is faster. Any opening, closing, saving, loading, scanning, searching, sorting, or transferring will be significantly quicker.



Also, the price difference between 500GB hard drives and 1000GB hard drives are usually $5-10

 

[Eggz]

Here is what LoganofHades put in another thread asking a similar question, and I thought it was a really good build with the Xeon, so I thought I'd share (obviously change parts according to your preferrence, but it shows a kick ass gaming build with the 4-core, 8-thread Xeon on the LGA 1150 socket)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($244.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock B85 Pro4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($119.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($83.97 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB AMP! Edition Video Card ($679.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Mwave)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1493.86
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-13 16:08 EDT-0400)

 

[WhiteSnake91]

An SSD certainly isn't a must-have, but, it's a night and day difference in how snappy it will make your pc. I would never go back to a HDD based pc now. I'd even get a little rinky dink SSD purely to put the OS on even if it was only a old 64gb one. It just spoils you. Using my APU laptop now with it's 5400rpm hdd seems like it takes forever for stuff to load...just been spoiled by having an SSD in my desktop for nearly a year now. The 120gb crucial m500 for 66 bucks is an amazing deal. If you don't have many games I'd go purely SSD and then if you run out of space then get a mechanical. I like SSDs THAT much 😛

It's the single best upgrade you could ever make to a PC bar none.

one of Logan's Xeon 1230v3 builds would be fine, just plug in your gtx760 or 770. Personally I could never really justify spending more than like 300 for a gpu, stuff just becomes outdated like others have said by the next year. Get something good enough for what you want to do, and then rest easy for years. Like, for 1080p my 7950 will be good for years to come. Just like how right now a cheap gpu could play 720p games on ultra, in the coming years as stuff goes to 1440p or 4k, GPUs that play 1080p on ultra will become cheap. I'm personally content with 1080p forever, hell I grew up playing the super nintendo on a black and white tv via rf adapter...lol

 

[mc962]

An SSD certainly isn't a must-have, but, it's a night and day difference in how snappy it will make your pc. I would never go back to a HDD based pc now. I'd even get a little rinky dink SSD purely to put the OS on even if it was only a old 64gb one. It just spoils you. Using my APU laptop now with it's 5400rpm hdd seems like it takes forever for stuff to load...just been spoiled by having an SSD in my desktop for nearly a year now. The 120gb crucial m500 for 66 bucks is an amazing deal. If you don't have many games I'd go purely SSD and then if you run out of space then get a mechanical. I like SSDs THAT much 😛

It's the single best upgrade you could ever make to a PC bar none.

Adding to that, even something like a small cache ssd drive makes a fair bit of difference. My laptop came with a 24 gb ssd cache drive, and while it is nowhere near as fast as my full ssd desktop, it still manages to keep at decent speeds whereas older laptops with only HDDs that I've had would have slowed down a fair bit by now

 

[MrCanEHdian]

Count me in the 1230v3 crowd. I really want one myself. Just lack the funds to do the build the way I want to.

In a few years, there will be something far better than the GTX 780. Waiting years for something, in the PC world, is not a good idea.

Yes, people say that often haha, I think I will go with the GTX 770, it seems to have the best price to performance.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

There's always going to be something better no matter what you get or how long you wait. That's just how it is. Whatever comes out nest year will be better than this year, whatever comes out in two years will be better than next years...

I can understand waiting a few weeks for something specific to be released, but that's it.


ssds are great and they don't have to cost $120. You can get a good 120-128GB ssd for as low as the $66 Crucial M500 and many others can be had for $79-89. Installing windows on a ssd makes windows feel really snappy. Everything done in windows is faster. Any opening, closing, saving, loading, scanning, searching, sorting, or transferring will be significantly quicker.



Also, the price difference between 500GB hard drives and 1000GB hard drives are usually $5-10

I'm only waiting so long because of financial and time constraints. This build is "speculative" until I have the funds, but I'm working two jobs to finance this project, cover my tuition/books, and living expenses. I won't have much free time until the end of August or so.

The SSD is very interesting... I'm torn now on whether to get one or not. I'm thinking if I see one on a good sale I will go for it, but I can live with somewhat longer load times.