Troika dead, er... maybe in stasis

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I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542

To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
elsewhere.

So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.


--
http://www.outshine.com/
http://www.respectthepublicdomain.org/

 

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:56:25 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com>
wrote:

>I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
> In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:
>
>http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542
>
>To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
>nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
>elsewhere.
>
>So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
>was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.

Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?

Lynley

 

[Shadows]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-19, Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:56:25 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
>> In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:
>>
>>http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542
>>
>>To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
>>nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
>>elsewhere.
>>
>>So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
>>was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.
>
> Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?

You should read more game websites (the good ones)

The word has been out since November actually but nothing really
came up until January. They're supposed to have a "statement"
ready by the end of February. My view: good riddance.

 

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Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> once tried to test me with:

> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:56:25 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
>> In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:
>>
>>http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542
>>
>>To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
>>nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
>>elsewhere.
>>
>>So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
>>was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.
>
> Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?

The reason is because they are out of cash. They haven't made much money on
their latest projects. I think V:B pretty much tanked. And Arcanum wasn't
all that hot either. Nor was TOEE. In a nutshell, they made 3 buggy games
in a row. They can't expect to stay in business doing that.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

 

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Bitstring <j38e111it80gkf5ku20ovsi44nuls410so@4ax.com>, from the
wonderful person Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> said
>Hm. Maybe pre-ordering TOEE2 was a bad idea.

Hmm, let me get this straight, you played ToEE and you actually =pre
ordered= ToEE 2?? Would you like to buy some prime building land in
Florida?? London Bridge?? The Eiffel Tower??
8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.

 

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Knight37 wrote:

> Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>>Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?
>
> The reason is because they are out of cash. They haven't made much money on
> their latest projects. I think V:B pretty much tanked. And Arcanum wasn't
> all that hot either. Nor was TOEE. In a nutshell, they made 3 buggy games
> in a row. They can't expect to stay in business doing that.

Actually, if I remember the Atari quarterly report properly, it said
that ToEE was their biggest moneymaker for the quarter, selling 400,000
copies. Since then, it's probably done next-to-nothing, I'm sure.

But I agree with your point overall, their reputation for bugs was
hurting them. There is a video that just got leaked, showing a tech
demo they were shopping around. It looks like it would have made for a
very fun game, but nobody wanted to fund it. The word is that no one
would fund a post-apoc game, but I think the truth may be more along the
lines of publishers just didn't really enjoy working with Troika. The
publishers would get a game that didn't sell well, or even if it did
sell, it would be really buggy, and Troika would blame the publisher.

I'm sure at least one publisher developed a once-bitten, twice-shy
attitude with regards to Troika.

--
http://www.outshine.com/
http://www.respectthepublicdomain.org/

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:56:25 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com> wrote:

>I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
> In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:
>
>http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542
>
>To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
>nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
>elsewhere.
>
>So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
>was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.

Hm. Maybe pre-ordering TOEE2 was a bad idea.


--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
hong@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> But I agree with your point overall, their reputation for bugs was hurting
> them. There is a video that just got leaked, showing a tech demo they
> were shopping around. It looks like it would have made for a very fun
> game, but nobody wanted to fund it. The word is that no one would fund a
> post-apoc game, but I think the truth may be more along the lines of
> publishers just didn't really enjoy working with Troika. The publishers
> would get a game that didn't sell well, or even if it did sell, it would
> be really buggy, and Troika would blame the publisher.

Too true. I loved the ideas behind Arcanum, for instance,
but it was buggy, the interface was downright cryptic at
times, and TOEE was just a buggy mess as originally released.
Once you become known as a company that releases
buggy stuff a few times, the die is cast and its very tough to get
that image to change.

Troika is a prime example of a company that should just do
ideas, concepts and game design, but not let them near the
actual programming/code execution part of the project.

Derek
Stormcloud Creations
www.stormcloudcreations.com

 

[Shadows]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-20, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

> I found this on www.troikachronicles.com:
>
> Atari has recently released their 10-K report for the last fical year which
> ended March 2004. According to this report ToEE was their best selling PC
> CRPG! The extensions to Neverwinter Nights obviously sold very good too.
> The only CRPG that sold better than ToEE was D&D Heroes which is more of a
> Action-RPG along the lines of Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance.
> Too bad that they didn't print any sales figures, I really would like to
> know how many copies were sold...

Now we know why "real" CRPGs aren't being made as much. Most
people are buying action games. The market is pushing this genre
out.

 

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shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-02-20, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>> I found this on www.troikachronicles.com:
>>
>> Atari has recently released their 10-K report for the last fical year
>> which ended March 2004. According to this report ToEE was their best
>> selling PC CRPG! The extensions to Neverwinter Nights obviously sold
>> very good too. The only CRPG that sold better than ToEE was D&D
>> Heroes which is more of a Action-RPG along the lines of Baldur's Gate
>> Dark Alliance. Too bad that they didn't print any sales figures, I
>> really would like to know how many copies were sold...
>
> Now we know why "real" CRPGs aren't being made as much. Most
> people are buying action games. The market is pushing this genre
> out.

Umm is this supposed to be news?

RPGs are not a mass market item. They never have been. They have always
been a niche market because it's really only a very small number of gamers
(relatively) that care about things like character development, branching
plots, playing a role, meaningful choices, etc. I mean most "gamers" are
happy with stuff like Solitaire and The Sims and Big Game Hunter. It's a
certain sophisticated gamer that can appreciate the complexity of a good
"real" CRPG.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

 

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:16:21 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>On 2005-02-19, Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:56:25 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
>>> In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:
>>>
>>>http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542
>>>
>>>To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
>>>nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
>>>elsewhere.
>>>
>>>So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
>>>was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.
>>
>> Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?
>
>You should read more game websites (the good ones)
>
>The word has been out since November actually but nothing really
>came up until January. They're supposed to have a "statement"
>ready by the end of February. My view: good riddance.
>
>

Too busy starting my final, final year at varsity :O)

Looked up at Avault and no news and I cannot remember the name of that
damn good RPG website.

Lynley

 

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On 19 Feb 2005 17:14:01 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:56:25 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm surprised you all didn't discuss this to death while I was out sick.
>>> In any case, read a little more than halfway down this Web page:
>>>
>>>http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542
>>>
>>>To sum up: lead programmer on Bloodlines admits that Troika laid off
>>>nearly everyone in November. Lots of 'em are already gainfully employed
>>>elsewhere.
>>>
>>>So no more patches then, I guess. Oh well. Hey Troika devs: Arcanum
>>>was great. So long, and thanks for all the playtime.
>>
>> Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?
>
>The reason is because they are out of cash. They haven't made much money on
>their latest projects. I think V:B pretty much tanked. And Arcanum wasn't
>all that hot either. Nor was TOEE. In a nutshell, they made 3 buggy games
>in a row. They can't expect to stay in business doing that.

While I liked the premise behind Arcanum, the damn bugs killed it for
me. I was one of the many who had that really annoying bug where you
couldn't even start the damn game and this was on two competely
different systems. It went back to the shop a day later.

ToEE looked great, but I couldn't stand the bugs and did not have the
patience to wait for a patch. It, too, went back the next day.

I haven't even bought V:tM:Bloodlines. After all I heard about the
bugs, I just decided not to waste cash on the game and then on petrol
to return the game.

It's a shame really, since they did have great ideas and knew what
CRPGers wanted. If only they had done something about the execution
of those ideas.

Lynley

 

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:32:22 GMT, Anthony Boyd <usenet@outshine.com>
wrote:

>Knight37 wrote:
>
>> Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>>Had no idea about this. Any concrete reasons given?
>>
>> The reason is because they are out of cash. They haven't made much money on
>> their latest projects. I think V:B pretty much tanked. And Arcanum wasn't
>> all that hot either. Nor was TOEE. In a nutshell, they made 3 buggy games
>> in a row. They can't expect to stay in business doing that.
>
>Actually, if I remember the Atari quarterly report properly, it said
>that ToEE was their biggest moneymaker for the quarter, selling 400,000
>copies. Since then, it's probably done next-to-nothing, I'm sure.
>
>But I agree with your point overall, their reputation for bugs was
>hurting them. There is a video that just got leaked, showing a tech
>demo they were shopping around. It looks like it would have made for a
>very fun game, but nobody wanted to fund it. The word is that no one
>would fund a post-apoc game, but I think the truth may be more along the
>lines of publishers just didn't really enjoy working with Troika. The
>publishers would get a game that didn't sell well, or even if it did
>sell, it would be really buggy, and Troika would blame the publisher.
>
>I'm sure at least one publisher developed a once-bitten, twice-shy
>attitude with regards to Troika.

The fact that there has been a Fallout game for consoles and that
Bethesda are developing FO3 puts paid to the belief that noone wants
to fund a post apocalyptic game.

Maybe hiring some good coders would have helped them out?

Lynley

 

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On that special day, Knight37, (knight37m@email.com) said...

> Wow 400k copies sold?

They counted in the third sale, which was a bargain edition at the
"Pyramide", for ten bucks a jewel case (no box).

http://www.softwarepyramide.de/produktdetails.asp?web=1&Suche.x=11
&Suche.y=9&art=34255 (one line)


Gabriele "has one of those on the shelf, too" Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.

 

[Shadows]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-20, Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looked up at Avault and no news and I cannot remember the name of that
> damn good RPG website.

www.gamebanshee.com is the one I use most. Otherwise gamespot,
and rpgdot are OK for news as well although their reviews tend to
be sub par.

 

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Bitstring <slrnd1ibam.24pq.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>, from the
wonderful person shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> said
<big snip>
>I think he contradicts himself when he says the system was
>coherent and tested. In fact it's bizarre that he even writes
>about the game that way

The way I read that is that =the AD&D 3.5 rule-set= is coherent and
tested (sort of, IMHO). The ToEE implementation of it is full of holes,
bugs, and was definitely not (adequately) tested.

However I worry less that 'Rangers in two handed mode, against giant
opponents, on weekdays, with one small weapon should only get a 1.5x to
hit penalty, whereas ToEE gives them a 2x penalty' than the rather more
crippling bugs which any beta tester should have noticed (summoned
monsters not going away. Broken quests, especially for LG parties. NPC
companions stealing/hoarding loot they can never use .. stuff like
that).

Yeah, all games these days tend to have bugs (Oh for the days when the
publisher used to have to send out patch floppy disks, at their expense
- that kept them reasonably honest. The cost/benefit of doing it right
is no longer there), but ToEE had way more than it's fair share, fixed
way too slowly.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:37:26 GMT, shadows wrote:

> I think he contradicts himself when he says the system was
> coherent and tested. In fact it's bizarre that he even writes
> about the game that way

He was talking about the pen & paper system here (definately not his).
--
RJB
2/21/2005 8:11:26 AM

I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law.
-David Dinkins, New York City Mayor, answering accusations that he failed
to pay his taxes.

 

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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:23:33 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>On 2005-02-20, Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Looked up at Avault and no news and I cannot remember the name of that
>> damn good RPG website.
>
>www.gamebanshee.com is the one I use most. Otherwise gamespot,
>and rpgdot are OK for news as well although their reviews tend to
>be sub par.


Thanks, I'll give them a go. Avault is just far too unreliable these
days and they seem to be concentrating more and more on consoles in
terms of games. I do like their hardware reviews though.

Lynley

 

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:48:54 +0000, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

>Bitstring <j38e111it80gkf5ku20ovsi44nuls410so@4ax.com>, from the
>wonderful person Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> said
>>Hm. Maybe pre-ordering TOEE2 was a bad idea.
>
>Hmm, let me get this straight, you played ToEE and you actually =pre
>ordered= ToEE 2?? Would you like to buy some prime building land in
>Florida?? London Bridge?? The Eiffel Tower??
>8>.

Sorry, I've got a mortgage already. You should have spoken to me in 1999.


--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
hong@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |