Question Trouble installing a new graphics card (4090)

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
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1,535
So, i decided to upgrade my old graphics card that has been a few years old by today and bought a 4090 founders edition.

Today, i got around taking my pc off the wall to swap the cards. Sadly i was greeted with .. a black screen. I did follow many advices on the internet (youtube) .. i rammed the plug into the card as hard as possible, connected all 4 connectors that fit to the card and tried booting up.

What did i see?

  • the splash screen (AMD logo) looked normal
  • windows did boot up, but oddly instead of the blue window with the dots going in a circle, it was the window with a ring underneath (looked a bit squished, too)
  • afterwards, i did hear windows logging in .. and various programs opening up .. but my screen remained black (backlit, but black) - it did not complain about not having a signal
so i turned it off - and booted again

- same thing again, but this time the screens complained about "no signal"

upon rebooting, i get one of the above ... windows does load up (i hear the little jingles) but no picture.

All the while, the GPU seems fine by itself .. it lights up and the fan swings.

I then managed to sometimes get a picture!! .. when i disconnected 1 cable (so only 3 cables are attached to the GPU) .. i can boot into windows WITH a picture, but it looks odd.
  • the desktop STARTS in a very low resolution (HUGE icons) .. but snaps back to my default resolution 1440 momentarily.
  • i opened youtube .. and the videos defaulted to a very low resolution (480p) .. and also ran choppy. In fact, the entire computer ran choppy .. with programs not wanting to start and freezes all the time
  • after a short while, it crashed and rebooted (again, sometimes with, sometimes without picture)
I then read that there might be something with a VBios .. and i used a link to download an NVidia VBios upgrade, which was "successful" .. but did not solve the problem.

Long story short, i swapped back to my old GPU for now, a little disappointed that it seemed a lot harder to upgrade to a 4090 than it was before to other GPUs.


My system:

  • windows 11
  • Ryzen 3700x ( i think )
  • Seasonic Connect 750 PSU
  • 4x 8 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum Ram (i think i run it at 3200)
  • boot system is on a Samsung m.2 SSD
  • 2 Monitors attached
As for the 750watts PSU. I am aware that the GPU wants 850 watts, but i read several times that it should still be FINE with 750w ... or maybe that was wrong?

edit: oh, and the pc is hanging off the wall in a thermaltake case (the one that you can hang on the wall.. Core P or 3 or something, i forgot) - the GPU is sitting on a rising cable that is slotted into the top PCI slot .. if that does anything to how the card should work.

When i did have a picture in windows, i checked if the GPU was recognized.

  • device manager can see it
  • Speccy and HWmanager can identify it correctly
  • Nvidia experience wanted me to install a driver update (which i did) - and recognized the card correctly

I also ran 3d mark .. or tried to. It loaded up the benchmark ... and gave me a zero because the whole PC froze for a few seconds, terminating the benchmark test.
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
Try using without PCIE riser cable.

I do not really know how to. My friend built this PC and when i detach the cable, the little slots that screw the GPU in are not orientated how they ought to - that means, they are still vertical. There should be a part of the pc case that has the horizontal slots but i do not know where that is.

However, i could certainly try to stick it into the motherboard without cable and just not screw it in - just to see if that works better.
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
Use DDU to remove all the graphics drivers before installing the Geforce driver.

What was your former GPU?

Is the riser cable gen3 or gen4?

Where's the DC block of the PSU located in the Thermaltake Core P3 case?

1 - yes, i will ddu the former driver.
2 - the old GPU was Nvidia, too - Quadro 5000
3 - i have no idea .. edit: i looked at the listing of the pc case - and it says "riser cable 3.0 x16 .. so i guess it is 3
4 - what is a DC block?
 
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2 - the old GPU was Nvidia, too - Quadro 5000
Different drivers. You definitely need to use DDU.
3 - i have no idea .. edit: i looked at the listing of the pc case - and it says "riser cable 3.0 x16 .. so i guess it is 3
That's 3. What's your motherboard?
4 - what is a DC block?
The thing in the front where you put the cables in.
connect-750-gold.jpg
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
Different drivers. You definitely need to use DDU.

That's 3. What's your motherboard?

The thing in the front where you put the cables in.
connect-750-gold.jpg
The motherboard is a : Asus Tuf Gaming B550+ without wifi. It is ATX sized and updated to work with the Ryzen 3700x. The PC ran perfectly fine so far. (considering i mostly use it for youtube and similar)

The bock where i plug cables in is in the back of the case. I think we cramped it somewhere "behind" the motherboard. does its location has any effect on it? Frankly, we put it there, because it was the only place with enough room.

edit: maybe this is helpful? the PSU has a switch to go from fanless (or stopping the fan, unless the PSU gets hot) to always spin the fan.

The PSU never got very hot .. in case that is in indicator that it may not have been a PSU problem, considering its only 750w. The GPU however went straight to around 41 Celsius when doing nothing but be in windows desktop.
 
As for the 750watts PSU. I am aware that the GPU wants 850 watts, but i read several times that it should still be FINE with 750w ... or maybe that was wrong?

Yes, that was wrong. The recommended min PSU is there for a reason. Now, some may argue that you 'can' get by with smaller PSU Is that true? Maybe yes, in a standard load kind of way (meaning no OC'ing GPU or GPU). Once you push an RTX3090/ti/4090 they really pull some watts. They also have transient power spikes, which can trip overprotections on even the best PSU's. Having a PSU that doesn't power your requirements is just asking for issue to present themselves.

The general rule of thumb is to have a PSU that can easily power your system with 100-200w spare overhead (for spikes). For the 4090 I wouldn't want anything less than a Corsair RMX1000w. Skimping with a PSU, is not the smart thing here. It powers your shiny new system. You want it to be a good heart!?

Try clearing CMOS, and see if that helps any.
 
Asus Tuf Gaming B550+ without wifi. It is ATX sized and updated to work with the Ryzen 3700
3700X is supported out of the box.
Is the motherboard running on the latest BIOS?
The bock where i plug cables in is in the back of the case. I think we cramped it somewhere "behind" the motherboard. does its location has any effect on it? Frankly, we put it there, because it was the only place with enough room.
Is there airflow behind the case or is it a closed space?
The PSU never got very hot .. in case that is in indicator that it may not have been a PSU problem, considering its only 750w.
The PSU exists about two parts. The primary (AC) side in the ATX sized block with the fan and the secondary (DC) side in the long small block. The DC block needs cooling too. Cooling by convection. If the space above the DC block is closed the block gets to hot and the PSU would shut down.
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
3700X is supported out of the box.
Is the motherboard running on the latest BIOS?

Is there airflow behind the case or is it a closed space?

The PSU exists about two parts. The primary (AC) side in the ATX sized block with the fan and the secondary (DC) side in the long small block. The DC block needs cooling too. Cooling by convection. If the space above the DC block is closed the block gets to hot and the PSU would shut down.

I do not think there is much airflow where the block is. My watercooling fans blow air inside of the case .. which is a fairly flat panel behind where you mount the computer on (maybe 4cm deep and 50cm wide/high.

I cannot say if the connection part gets hot. It is stuffed up in the back with all the cables. To be honest, i do not think there is any airflow back there. But i should mention that this seems never to have been an issue with the old GPU (which i swapped back to, to be able to get information to solve the problem) . This part is meant to be stuck in the back part of a PC, where you manage the cables... usually a lot less room than the Core P3 offers.

As for the motherboard BIOS. I do not know .. it was running the latest BIOS in 2020 i think. There might have been a new BIOS out there since then .. but the motherboard does recognize the GPU. As said .. for the few times that i did get a picture output and windows .. windows fully identified the GPU.. it just ran terribly with it and froze all the time.


Regarding the drivers. I never really install drivers .. i have this NVidia app : Nvidia Experience, which automatically does everything. I also just read that any windows 10 or 11 should automatically run with a new RTX graphics card.

So there is always the suspicion that the graphics card might be broken, too. I mean, its new ... but it had to travel here by delivery service and i would not know if it wasnt dropped on its way.
 
I cannot say if the connection part gets hot. It is stuffed up in the back with all the cables. To be honest, i do not think there is any airflow back there. But i should mention that this seems never to have been an issue with the old GPU (which i swapped back to, to be able to get information to solve the problem) . This part is meant to be stuck in the back part of a PC, where you manage the cables... usually a lot less room than the Core P3 offers.
RTX4090 consumes 3 times more than a Quadro 5000 so the parts of the PSU gets hotter. Hotter parts needs more airflow.
The DC part is specific made for this Seasonic case. This case has a compartment designed for the DC part.
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
RTX4090 consumes 3 times more than a Quadro 5000 so the parts of the PSU gets hotter. Hotter parts needs more airflow.
The DC part is specific made for this Seasonic case. This case has a compartment designed for the DC part.
Had no idea about this. I guess i will be getting a new PSU then. And while being at it, i ll take into account what others said and go for 1000 or 1200 w i guess. That should defeat both uncertainties .. the low power PSU and the connections.
 

boju

Titan
Ambassador
Have you tried forcing pcie 3 in bios? Gen3 riser cables did have issues running gen 4 cards and Quadro is gen 2 so that's probably why that worked. Use Quadro to change pcie gen from auto to 3 and see how you go. If it works then you have one obstacle out the way before you tackle psu.
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
Have you tried forcing pcie 3 in bios? Gen3 riser cables did have issues running gen 4 cards and Quadro is gen 2 so that's probably why that worked. Use Quadro to change pcie gen from auto to 3 and see how you go. If it works then you have one obstacle out the way before you tackle psu.
I have not checked, because i am currently using the pc. But i did switch from auto to 3.0 as far as i know. There was no change in behaviour.

However, i wont switch GPUs tonight anymore. Tomorrow is new years and i wont be in the condition to meddle with my pc. So all that is a problem for future me in 1 or 2 days.
 
Had no idea about this. I guess i will be getting a new PSU then. And while being at it, i ll take into account what others said and go for 1000 or 1200 w i guess. That should defeat both uncertainties .. the low power PSU and the connections.
And besides that you have to update the motherboard BIOS the latest version and remove the Quadro driver with DDU because it's in the way of the GeForce driver.
 

RagnaSE

Commendable
Nov 22, 2020
33
1
1,535
Just a little update. - i have:

  • updated the motherboard (it was on BIOS 2020) ... the new one is from 11.2022 i think
  • i have DDU the old drivers and reinstalled everything Nvidia (experience gave me some trouble, because it would not want to do telemetry - but it does work now)
  • because i have swapped GPUs, i have made double sure that the GPU is seated correctly ... not that there is much room not to be seated tightly
  • i have switched all PCI ports to 3.0 (yesterday i actually switched them from auto to 4.0)
What has happened so far:
  • the computer still does not boot up reliably. I see the logo (Tuf logo) and i see the windows symbol with the dots .. but once it reachers the log-in screen, it still stays black (but backlit) randomly .. it does feel like it manages to offer me a picture more often though.
  • when i booted up right after DDU, i got a black screen .. i then reset the PC and booted up again. It got to the desktop, but it flickered though various resolutions (my native resolution is 1440)
  • the computer has not frozen so far (like yesterday) .. and ran fine. I have not booted up any demanding game like Cyberpunk though but stayed on the desktop with just browsers.
  • i did run Speccy to see a more detailed view of the GPU and it rests at 47 celsius but does not spin the fan at all. LEDs are on. .,. and obviously the GPU works because i am currently working on the PC with it. The fan does spin when the PC boots up (all fans spin) ... maybe the GPU does not think 47 degrees is a lot, but Speccy marks it as "yellow".

edit: also - i get a "DWM error" on the log in screen of windows. Looked it up .. and it says that i can be a lot from driver issues to a malfunctioning GPU
 
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