Troubled XP users read this, might help you!

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I had tons of problems with Xp the first couple of weeks after installing, but making 2 adjustments made it run alot better.
First i turned off Shadow and Caching of my RAM in the BIOS setup (though i dont know what it is exactly). XP prompted me to do so in one of many Blue Screens of Death. I immediately got much more stability into my use of the computer.
Still, though, i had alot of errormessages coming up, which caused various applications to shut down. since i couldnt find a pattern in the malfunctions (many different programs caused problems) i was very troubled in isolating the problem. I then decided to remove one of my RAM blocks, I had 3 blocks of 256 Megs each. Now down to 512 I have absolutely no problems.
Before this I couldnt play Counterstrike on my comp, it just crashed as soon as i joined a server. Now it runs smoothly, allthough with a 56k u get an awful ping :).
I dont know whether my last RAM block is faulty, cuz in the BIOS startup, it reported that all my 768 Megs of RAM was ok. The reason i removed it afterall, was because i was reminded by a mate that win98 had problems when your memory exceeded 512 Megs.
But what the heck, my comp works and im happy!
 
bwahahahahaha, and this is what pepel say about XP's memory managmentability to be the same (or better than) as Win2k, BWAHAHAHAHAHA, LOL, can't sit in the armchair, LOL

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
 
Don't fall out of that chair and land on your head!

LOL!

Let's see, how many current strikes does that make against MS's latest and greatest?

Here's just a few ...

Product Activation
Lack of default Java support
Problems with OpenGL gaming
Luna (matter of taste, but I can't stand it. It's slower, too.)
Drivers (sound card, scanners, printers, etc.)
Burning software and firewalls
Refresh rates
Networking with older OS's
Price (Something I think is really funny, considering the amount of AMD users on this board who are always preaching the price/performance Intel eulogy ... but will scramble to buy this OS and add a $500.00 video card just to run a benchmark.)

And now, memory management. Why am I not surprised?

I'm sure I've missed about a dozen good reasons that no one should upgrade from Win2K until WinXP SE is released. Maybe not even then. With Win2K SP2 running smoothly, (with SP3 on the horizon) and available for $130.00 after rebate, I just can't see the logic in moving to WinXP. $300 for a corporate OS, or $130.00? That's a heck of a lot of money to pay for an OS, with this many issues, just for shaving an extra 10 seconds off the boot. I can cold-boot into Win2K in 58 seconds, anyway ... even with a large profile. A 20 second POST is acceptable, in my book.)

And so, I join you ... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

People, don't feed into the hype. MS has been doing this for years, and no OS released by them has ever been ready for "Prime Time" in the first version. It's a ten year track record.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
but... but... but....
but XP looks so nice, u just wanna hug it, and squeeze it, and pet it, its so pretty!
I for one am still awaiting the moment when a little pack of fluffy teletubbies comes running across the beautiful, hilly meadow of my desktop, singing and dancing.
Ok so XP got its flaws, but i dont care anymore, cuz now i can play counterstrike on it, thats all i need.
And I still would prefer it over Win98 or ME anyday, but who wouldnt...
and lastly, i want to say this to ToeJam... i want a computer just like yours, i mean... like... WOW!
 
Sooooo your saying that XP isnt as good as M.E. and 98 ?
and why would anyone by the standard edition? is like buying near beer lol
i'm Using the professional version and I have 768 megs of Ram and no problems at all.
Far as the Firewall "Provided by Norton who just made all there other software obselete once again" and CD burning Capibility "Povided by roxio who did the same thing"? have only hurt themselves certainly didnt slow me from using third party software of the same nature. and i Don't recall it being on any other o.s. so why would that be a strike? or a benefit?
think this is amd,intel all over again.
far as the video driver goes? unreal tourny quake3 and the voyager game, half-life and all its flavors. all work just fine with the default driver.
The only thing I can put it to is those bubble gum motherboards you all buy.

Have you actually used the final version yet toey?
or you judging it off some beta copy? :)

Nother thing you might wanna take into account?

A) these are 98 users ok? is like night and day to them. there not used to being up and running for more than 5 mins at a crack lol
B) most of these are pirated? doh? you think maybe? it might be a bad copy perchance? lol
I am not defending microsoft. even thou it sure as hell sounds that way right now. but id wait for ppl who actually try using xp longer than ONE hour. before passing judgement.

:)
 
<font color=purple>"Sooooo your saying that XP isnt as good as M.E. and 98?"</font color=purple>

Hmmm. I think it's better, in most respects, simply because of the kernel. But I don't think it's completely ready for retail sale to consumers. Too many drivers are still not ready. Maybe in a few months. Microsoft was rushed to get the OS out the door to the OEM's. I still think that the Second Edition will be the version that most home users will end up with, just like with Win95-B OSR2, and Win98SE.

<font color=purple>"why would anyone by the standard edition? is like buying near beer lol"</font color=purple>

Media hype. Inadequate information. Bccause it will ship on most newer machines. By accident. Bcause it's cheaper than the Pro version. Because Billy-Bob down the street bought it, and says that it's a dream come true. Because they can!

Ignorance is bliss until you get it home and put it on your hard drive.

<font color=purple>"i'm Using the professional version and I have 768 megs of Ram and no problems at all."</font color=purple>

Good. That's a relief. Not having decent memory management in Win9x has been a problem for a long time. But Win2K functions great with 768MB, so where's the advantage of paying an extra $130 dollars? Pretty, rainbow colors and a green Start button?

<font color=purple>"Far as the Firewall "Provided by Norton who just made all there other software obselete once again" and CD burning Capibility "Povided by roxio who did the same thing"? have only hurt themselves certainly didnt slow me from using third party software of the same nature. and i Don't recall it being on any other o.s. so why would that be a strike? or a benefit?"</font color=purple>

I was thinking more specifically of Nero and ZoneAlarm. Norton and Roxio can go take a flying leap, as far as I'm concerned. The built-in firewall in XP isn't really secure, and the burning program offers little in the way of features.

<font color=purple>think this is amd,intel all over again</font color=purple>

Not in my opinion. This kind of situation definitely predates any such arguments, all the way back to Win3x, which I never cared for until v3.11 with 32-bit support was released.

<font color=purple>far as the video driver goes? unreal tourny quake3 and the voyager game, half-life and all its flavors. all work just fine with the default driver.</font color=purple>

I installed MDK2, and got an incredible 1 FPS during the resolution test with the default XP driver. I didn't even think about trying Half-Life, after that. I made a serious effort to install OpenGL drivers ... no luck at all. DirectX ... a different story.

<font color=purple>"The only thing I can put it to is those bubble gum motherboards you all buy."</font color=purple>

So THAT's the pink, sticky stuff on my undersized heatsink! One more mystery solved. Way to go! Mmmm, banana! Tastes good with throttled P4!

LOL!

<font color=purple>"Have you actually used the final version yet toey?
or you judging it off some beta copy? :)"</font color=purple>

You've got me there. I ran the first two betas and quit. I didn't care enough for RC2 to check out the gold code yet. I'm sure that I'll be forced to drop it on a spare machine, just so I can provide technical support. But that doesn't mean I'll be installing it on my main, home-based system. Nothing is broken; everything works. That's what counts with me. And there are no advantages I can see to switching from Win2K to XP. Every game I have plays great, and all my programs run perfectly.

<font color=purple>"A) these are 98 users ok? is like night and day to them. there not used to being up and running for more than 5 mins at a crack lol"</font color=purple>

I can't argue with that logic! <GRIN>

<font color=purple>"B) most of these are pirated? doh? you think maybe? it might be a bad copy perchance? lol"</font color=purple>

God, I hope not. Mine wasn't. Let's not push it and force good 'ole Bill into sending someone into your home to install an image. .NET is bad enough.

<font color=purple>"I am not defending microsoft. even thou it sure as hell sounds that way right now. but id wait for ppl who actually try using xp longer than ONE hour. before passing judgement."</font color=purple>

Nice try. I used it for well over two months. I don't want to go there again.

You don't want to be thought of as defending MS. Well, then stop defending them! LOL!

Sorry. A rock and a hard place. I empathize.

See ya ...

Toejam31

P.S. Teletubbies? ROTFLMAO! Here comes Jerry ...

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
Thanks for the compliment.

As for XP, I don't want to pet it. I want to drown it, like a bag of mewing barnyard kittens.

So where's the nude skin for the real man in all of us?

LOL!

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
____________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
The OS still hasn't been released. That's why drivers have not been released. They go hand in hand. I'm still waiting for the HP CD-Writer drivers for example. The default drivers that are installed are great in my opinion since they at least get everything running. Yes, trying to play a 3D game off the default drivers will net you a whopping 3 fps. If Crashman is right they'll probably release a second edition and maybe they'll put detonator drivers etc in there from the start.

As for blue screens, I still haven't gotten one. Not a single crash in a month. I still think this has to do with people using the beta versions. I'm using the final retail version and haven't had any problems. This OS is as solid as ever.

As far as memory management is concerened I'm not sure what everyone is looking at. I'm running with 128 MB on this system and have no problems. I'm going to install XP on my other system with half a gig and see what happens.

As far as networking between different OS's, sorry but I haven't tried yet and am going to keep XP on both.

My complaints so far though:
1) Java isn't built in. That's just stupid and cost me time having to download it.
2) Since I've switched components around (2 videocards) the startup has gone from taking 5 seconds to 1 min. I need to figure out how to clean out the old drivers.
3) It still won't power off the PC when I shutdown. I have no idea how to set that up, but it always did it automatically before.
4) How do we get rid of the windows messenger crap??? Some of the integrated programs in the OS has to go.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
 
It also occured to me that the OS really should have built in support for pdf files.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
 
Nice try. I used it for well over two months. I don't want to go there again.

You don't want to be thought of as defending MS. Well, then stop defending them! LOL!

Sorry. A rock and a hard place. I empathize.

-------------------------------------------------
that was my fault for not clarifying meant blah on that one :) not you :) but notice those who dont care for it havent had it on long enough to warm up the computer.

i got mdk2 as well ill load it up see what happens here.
and let you know.
am trying to get the apps on and see how it goes with those that ppl right near me want to know runs first. great way getting new software gotta admit ...

and i am running the gold copy. so maybe there is a difference in there.

soon ill be redoing it to retest some other software and run it back under defaults. but right now am on the new xp det drivers for my video card. due to a problem with my t.v. card... come to find out was my speakers... too many too close :)

so not on the default for now.

about three days or so ill revamp and try mdk2 see if i have the same problem and ill let you know. :)
thanks for ripping my comments apart so well , made me laugh lol

and yes am caught between a rock and a hard place where MS is concerned . but im getting bloody well sick of fixing M.E. machines so i am pushing this even if it is the watered down version just to get the the hell away from... me? LOL
 
<font color=purple>"The OS still hasn't been released. That's why drivers have not been released. They go hand in hand."</font color=purple>

This absolutely true. However, it could still take a few companies several more months to have a working driver, even beyond the launch date. And Microsoft is notorious for taking their time when signing off on a driver.

This can be a real pain-in-the-rear for those users who are not running a proprietary OEM system.

This is worrisome, because I'm <i>still</i> having trouble locating Win2K drivers for a few devices! I'm not looking forward to scouring the Net for XP drivers. Too bad I won't have a choice. <SIGH> This gets very old after a while ... OS after OS after OS ...

<font color=purple>"If Crashman is right they'll probably release a second edition and maybe they'll put detonator drivers etc in there from the start."</font color=purple>

The last beta I ran installed a signed Detonator 3 12.40 for a GF2 card. But the OpenGL support was nonexistent. Has this been improved in the gold code?

I <i>know</i> that there will be a Second Edition. I just don't know any specifics about the release date. Spring of 2002, perhaps?

<font color=purple>"1) Java isn't built in. That's just stupid and cost me time having to download it."</font color=purple>

I agree. Not the smartest thing MS has ever done. When are they and Sun going to learn to play nicely together? I wonder if it will happen within my lifetime ...

<font color=purple>"2) Since I've switched components around (2 videocards) the startup has gone from taking 5 seconds to 1 min. I need to figure out how to clean out the old drivers."</font color=purple>

Perhaps you could run Detonator Destroyer in Safe Mode?

<font color=purple>"3) It still won't power off the PC when I shutdown. I have no idea how to set that up, but it always did it automatically before."</font color=purple>

That sounds like the ACPI needs to be updated. Chipset drivers?

Windows Messenger Tips Link: <A HREF="http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=33&threadid=595846&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Windows Messenger" target="_new">http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=33&threadid=595846&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Windows Messenger</A>

<font color=purple>"It also occured to me that the OS really should have built in support for pdf files."</font color=purple>

That would certainly make Adobe happy, huh? LOL! Remember, the consumer always comes in last place. The number one priority is money, money, money.

See ya ...

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
____________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
<font color=purple>"that was my fault for not clarifying meant blah on that one :) not you :) but notice those who dont care for it havent had it on long enough to warm up the computer."</font color=purple>

Probably thought they had accidentally loaded up a MAC OS and ran screaming out of the room. My eyes, MY EYES!!

<font color=purple>"i got mdk2 as well ill load it up see what happens here.
and let you know.
am trying to get the apps on and see how it goes with those that ppl right near me want to know runs first. great way getting new software gotta admit ..."</font color=purple>

AH, HA! Gotcha! PIRACY!! Quick, somebody call Ephram Zimbalist, Jr!

Seriously though, I'd like to hear the results on your fact-finding mission. <GRIN>

<font color=purple>"and yes am caught between a rock and a hard place where MS is concerned . but im getting bloody well sick of fixing M.E. machines so i am pushing this even if it is the watered down version just to get the the hell away from... me? LOL"</font color=purple>

You, too? Stay away from ME, Me. Man, I'd like to grab every copy and build an enormous bonfire. **Farenheit 451**. "Daddy, is it true that fireman used to put <i>out</i> fires?" (Distantly related, possibly misconstrued quote from a long ago and far away contempory writing class, when all the women had high, firm breasts, and the hair on my head had not yet migrated to my back!)

See ya ...

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
____________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
<font color=red>"that was my fault for not clarifying meant blah on that one :) not you :) but notice those who dont care for it havent had it on long enough to warm up the computer."</font color=red>

<font color=green>"Probably thought they had accidentally loaded up a MAC OS and ran screaming out of the room. My eyes, MY EYES!!"</font color=green>

True. :smile:

<font color=red>"i got mdk2 as well ill load it up see what happens here.
and let you know.
am trying to get the apps on and see how it goes with those that ppl right near me want to know runs first. great way getting new software gotta admit ..."</font color=red>

<font color=green>AH, HA! Gotcha! PIRACY!! Quick, somebody call Ephram Zimbalist, Jr!</font color=green>

😱 I never said they were burning me copies, did I?

<font color=green>Seriously though, I'd like to hear the results on your fact-finding mission. <GRIN></font color=green>

Not a problem. :smile:

<font color=red>"and yes am caught between a rock and a hard place where MS is concerned . but im getting bloody well sick of fixing M.E. machines so i am pushing this even if it is the watered down version just to get the the hell away from... me? LOL"</font color=red>

<font color=green>You, too?</font color=green> <b>Yep.</b><font color=green> Stay away from ME, Me. Man, I'd like to grab every copy and build an enormous bonfire.</font color=green> <b> Me Too </b>
<font color=green>**Farenheit 451**. "Daddy, is it true that fireman used to put out fires?" (Distantly related, possibly misconstrued quote from a long ago and far away contempory writing class, when all the women had high, firm breasts, and the hair on my head had not yet migrated to my back!)</font color=green>

Yes, but, that was meant for worthwhile books. LoL
<b>And, what is up with that hair on the back thing anyways…</b>
 
gg, <font color=blue>I can</font color=blue> <font color=green>clearly see</font color=green> <font color=red>Christmas time</font color=red> <font color=purple>comes closer</font color=purple>... hehe

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
 
That forum had a tip to use gpedit.msc to mod XP. I got rid of windows messenger with it. There's a ton of stuff to do in there. In Crashman's XP thread in the other section I gave the exact path if someone can't find it...

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
 
<font color=red>HO</font color=red> <font color=green>HO</font color=green> <font color=blue>HO</font color=blue> <font color=red>l</font color=red><font color=green>o</font color=green><font color=red>l</font color=red>
 
sorry, i cannot keep quiet. XP can't hold a candle to win2000 period. back when w2k was being release, i can't remember one big manufacturer that didn't have working drivers to go with w2k betas. now with winxp it's not like that at all, why? because overall and aside from OEMs, there most likely won't be a big rush for winxp, like there was for w2k. w2k was such a big and substantial improvement over nt4. xp is just a blatant gimic to compete with OSX, in which i think xp's "luna" interface is awful nasty. i have run the release version of winXP and after 4 days of looking at what i wanted to, to see if it was any kind of OS worth keeping, i laughed and went back to win2000. there is not one substantial improvement over w2k and in some cases it only created bugs/problems that never existed in w2k. and i love one of their marketing ploys: no need to spends hours intalling 3rd party device drivers, winXP recognizes all hardware. gee really? hope you get at least that out of a brand spanking new OS. give it 6 months, you'll be back to carrying around cds or floppies for all those drivers. not to mention their big "super quick" boot hype. wow i'll actually have time during the day for myself now that i gained a whole extra 10secs!!! and i know that networking using the IEEE 1394 interface is the "norm" at this point in time. probably explains why winxp insisted to use my firewire card for my NIC instead of my ethernet card. there was no improvement in games (well i only ran q3) from w2k to xp. same fps and xp it seemed a little jittery. now for premiere (video editing software), this is an app i use everyday along with others, never had a problem capturing under w2k, in xp though i get a nice spuratic capture/playback of my files. that makes clips look/sound like their running at 50fps one min and 15fps the next. again, photoshop, another app i use daily, i couldn't even get it to install! and no, i'm not using some bs "run in compatability mode". i don't think xp will ever make it around to being mainstream in a lot of offices or anyone who knows what their doing. i'll hang on til they release their next OS, probably in another 2 years.
 
Glad I could help, even if it was just with linkage.

Cheerio!

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
try this toey

Kill the following two services off.
Nvidia helper service and shell hardware extension,
and see how much faster your video card goes. notice a hell of a slow down when I'd scroll down and watch t.v. on my system at the same time.
I shut these two down and now it runs fine again.
any idea what that shell hardware extension does?
 
Interesting.

I already knew to shut down the nVidia Driver Helper Service, because it really screws up the restart and shutdown time. But as for the Shell Hardware Extension Service ... ??? I don't have this Service listed in Win2K ... must be an XP thing. Anybody else have this one?

(I'm not running any version of XP at the moment, and so I can't remember if that Service was there or not.)

You'll notice, that except for the Indexing Service, almost all Services that don't have a description are third-party, and can usually be set to manual, or even disabled. Except for the WMDM PMSP Service, which is for Windows Media Player, and it is perfectly okay to disable this service (and it won't affect the player.)

Any luck running MDK2 in XP?

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
yes, just finished testing it between the 2181 driver and the stock one

on the 2181 driver i get 104 fps which is up from 2000 for me by 10 frames a sec
on the certified driver crashed to 1 fps a sec
I belive the gl is missing? but I had seen this on 2000 as well there stock drivers don't run the open gl worth a crap.
So, "and yes here I go again I know".
If you wanna laugh at xp you might as well laugh at 2000 and ditch both. :)

and im putting the following in to this as well as im too tired to click this button twice :)
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And I can't leave this alone, i tried? , but isn't about to happen.

When 2000 first came out I had that one prior to it coming out as well bought it oem. so Answer me this, exactly what company had drivers already for it?
my experice was NONE. took me 6 months to get everything panned out in my system with new drivers, it took creative forever to bring its 2000 drivers out. Nvidia was working, but not all that hot. Compatiblity problems were everywhere.

the only problem I have had so far is the 1 fps with MDK2 and that slow did I said earlier and corrected.
But if it was not for toejam pointing it out? I would of not known. since unlike alot of people who are crying about it. I go and get the latest updates anyways.

So for the guy who thinks everything worked on 2000 when it first ship? smoked a wee bit too much of his lawn. and obviously didnt get '2000' right off the start.

Between the start up of 2000 and start up of xp?

I'd say xp is starting up a HELL of alot smoother than 2000 did when it debut.

Dont forget when 2000 came out, everyone whinned about 2% of the code being screwed up. and I remember how everyone wasn't going to get it ..... now look.
Remember all the compatibility problems.

and also isnt there some where in the neighbor hood of 150 megs of updates to 2000 to make it the end all and be all of the os world now? LOL

sheesh :)
 
i've used win2000 since beta and on through release. at the time i had an oxygen vx1 (3dlabs). they had drivers for that for beta. ethernet card (realtek) win2000 had drivers for that. had an sb16pci again win2000 had drivers for that. the only driver i had to install myself was video card. obviosly you do not work on the computer for a living. when w2k came out everyone i know of accepted it, it WAS a major and legitimate update compared to nt4. and as far as updates. 100mb for sp2, if you have a burner you can intergrate it into the os installation. but even to dl/install on cable takes barely no time at all. aside from sp2, the only other update worth having is ie 5.5, which is about 10mb at the most for w2k. and you don't think in 6-8 months time there will not be that many updates for XP? you're definitely kidding yourself.
 
So ... obviously, to run the OpenGL games, you've got to upgrade the nVidia drivers. When I was testing XP, the newest signed driver I could download was the Detonator 3 12.41, and it wouldn't run worth a hoot.

James, I'm not sure what you are arguing about, exactly. I definitely think you are missing the point of my first post. It's normal that a new OS will have driver problems and a few compatibility issues.. And yes, Win2K had the same kind of difficulties ... even a few more. That's to be expected when a home user tries to run a game in an OS meant for a corporate desktop, or install a cutting-edge 3D accelerator card in that same OS.

My point being ...

XP is being touted as yet another consumer desktop replacement, (unlike Win2K) and of course, it's not exactly ready in every sense of the word. I didn't expect it to be, and no one with any brains should think that a MS operating system is going to be great guns out of the starting gate. (Whether it should be, or not ... that's a different story.)

However ... at this point in time, why buy it at all? Where is the actual advantage, beyond bragging rights?

One ... it will need a few more months for the manufacturer's to catch up with the drivers.

(It's true that this OS is slightly better in this regard than Win2K was at the same stage of the initial release.)

Two ... for the average user, while it might be a big jump from Win98, in my view, the better upgrade for that same user is Win2K. It's far cheaper, and a more mature OS.

Sure, you have to add the service packs. But try to name a Microsoft OS that <i>hasn't</i> needed a service pack or two. MS may have caused the terms vaporware and bloatware to come into existence in the first place. Not to mention memory leaks and security holes and macro viruses.

I just don't see the reason for jumping on the XP bandwagon, especially if you already have Win2K. There are very few new features, and those that <i>are</i> included are more like LE versions of the real thing. If I run it, I'm still going to want a third-party firewall, a burning program, my preferred DVD software, and a decent program for remote desktop sharing. Just like in Win2K.

So what do I get for the extra $130.00 to replace my version of Win2K besides a slightly faster boot and brightly colored desktop skins? I don't even see a real performance advantage to using DirectX 8.1. Do you? A five FPS increase (which is what I observed with a GF2) isn't much to holler about.

For my customers, sure ... they have the choice. And since most of the newer users are going to know nothing about a machine beyond what they have seen on a TV infomercial, the majority of them are going to request XP.

But I think I can save them some money by offering to install Win2K, instead. And pass along the savings to them, instead of charging an extra $70 to $130 per license.

If they need a driver ... they can find one. Neither of us will have to sit around and wait. That will make my job easier, as I will actually be able to get all their hardware running. And they won't think I sold them a piece of trash.

I talked to a woman yesterday that told me her favorite method of fixing her Dell was with a hammer. I <i>think</i> she was joking, but I decided to let that go by. I certainly don't want her to have the same attitude about the new machine I'll build for her.

I won't have to stop and teach them how to use a new interface which is anything but intuitive for someone coming straight from Win98. Neither will I have to explain Product Activation to them, all the while reassuring them that, no, Mr Gate's (the devil incarnate) isn't going to keep all their personal info in a secret database and sell it to the highest bidder.

The same programs that run in XP will run in Win2K. More, really, since there are still quite a few programs out there that need to be patched and/or updated. Maybe not the one's that <b>you</b> are running ... but it's the nature of people to have eclectic tastes, and you never know what someone's favorite program is going to be.

I think that your reputation is based on how well you perform. And right now, WinXP isn't going to enhance my business interests ... but it <i>will</i> keep me on the phone, troubleshooting problems with 60 year old housewives with little patience, who think that a $1000 machine ought to do the dishes, tap dance ... and never fail.

In other words, in two days, I can kiss my already limited free time goodbye. You can tell that I'm thrilled, right?

*******************************************************

I may feel differently about the OS in a year. The driver database will be on a par with the "norm", and hopefully, the price will have dropped. Then I won't see any real advantage between the two OS's. The Luna interface can always be disabled if one doesn't care for it, and I suppose some people will do almost anything for a computer that boots faster.

But right now ... no, thanks.

Can you think of anything special about the new OS that might change my mind ... something that is worth asking my customers to fork up the extra loot when they order a new machine from me? And what advantage will I see on my home system?

Personally, I think my money would be better spent in upgrading a router, or something. Or taking the cash and prepaying my broadband account for eight months.

Maybe I'll just take a vacation and get some sleep!

Take it away ... the podium is yours!

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Have you noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely! ... Robert A. Heinlein"</font color=purple>
 
we are talking out the gate right? so im taking it that your sb16 dont work with xp? or the other hardware your using? and at the time yes i was working for a company that did computer repairs. we had several ether net cards that did not work my computer at home had the only ether net card that did work on the first try. as far as compatibility? it took several months to get the drivers to work for the ether net cards over all or dont u remember all the complaints going on over that one item. since it is a business o.s. it should of worked with the majority.
u can kid urself all you like but there was alot more holes to that than there is xp and thats pretty much way should be since xp is nothing but an extension to 2000.

if I read what you said correctly you stated that 2000 coming out of the box ran smoother than xp does.

that is what I am disagreeing too.
 
Well, after the double lines, as i said, was too tired to wait on pokey the wonder isp to switch me around to get back to answering the other post, why I included it and stated so. so no wasnt at you.




As far as a reason to upgrade or fork the extra 130?
for those who have 2000 and actually know how to use it? nope.

Now for the heavy gamer and anyone on 9x systems I'd say hell yes so far.
But only get the upgrade to save money
Reason is, for the past couple of weeks this is what I noticed over 2000.
and mainly deals with games.
If you have thief the metal age? That is the perfect example of this and try it between the two you will see what I mean.
but when I used to try and load up thief, onto 2000 it would take at least 5 mins for the install screen to show up.
I noticed today when I was checking the video for you. and installed it it came on and went in like it should. came up and played with no hiccups. Was shocked at that.
this trend is what i been noticing along the way. Same goes with some of the other programs like cd creator. 'Yes I know its junk but I run these programs because people around me do so I run the tests and make sure it works before I go over and explain why it be ok to blow away a couple hundred dollars for this.'
and I know...I know this cause im watching it go on right now, that, in two months time when they smooth this thing out im going to be asked why I didnt put xp on the system or why I didnt recommend it. because its the greatest thing since slice bread and oooooo I cant live with out it.
I know this because I'm watching it with people on these boards doing it to 2000 now. Look at the guy above. his anciet equipment worked on 2000 so it was great outta the box all 2 of the people he worked with, with equally old equipment found it worked great..and..wahoo for them. for me and the 95 ppl I was working with at the time. Didnt experience the same joyfilled feeling and except for about 10 of them changed back to NT and 98 because it was having compatibility problems.
and at the time I did not have time to play with 2000 and find out why it was locking up everytime I'd turn it on. it took me 6 months before i even hinted at the switch over for it. and you know it didnt work completely right till sp2 came out. Was still bugging out.
look back thru the posts and you will see what I mean.

So Basically, as I said in part up top. If you are running 2000, no stay with it.

If your not a business? yes I'd say right now switch over to XP. just the lack of crashing alone is reason enough.
and the fact that in a couple of months drivers will be out everyone will be hugging each other singing praises from the roof tops, and saying ohhh baby where you been all my life. so go ahead and recommend xp. save them from buying it two months from now then they would be mad at you for making them buy 2000 then going out and getting the upgrade.

You know Toey your caught between a rock and a hard place.

the basic question I actually ask those who come to me is this.

Are you in it for the short term or long?

Ok, go ahead rip it apart...just bring me a cup of coffee would you please? :smile: