Question Trying to install a 3.0 graphics card into a Key M.2/NGFF slot using adapter - what speeds will A/E and M Key get - both claim (32Gbps)

[DrunkNseriouS]

I am trying to do the following:

I found a Dell 24" 5490 AIO i5 with onboard intel graphics

I installed a 4x4 m.2 mkey lexar NM790 2280 form factor (as there is space, just nothing to bolt it down)
Its in a 32Gbps slot (m.2 PCIe 3.0)

I wanted to upgrade the MBoard to get the MBoard with the 2GB GDDR5 Nvidia graphics, because I want to run Fooocus software for AI image generation.

Searching this, it is possible, would be slow, and needs some work around... so...

I can spend $AU393 on this MB or... get external with an external graphics - It may be needed anyway, but alone could fail (see why later).
.
With external Nvida Graphics, I would want to spend about $Nvidia 1660 ~ $Nvidia 3060 (MAX!), as that's a AU$200-$400 price range for new card, the internal would suck and cost about the same all up to buy as its motherboard mounted.

I discovered I have another PCI slot, the A/E keyed slot for my wifi/bt module - so I set about learning all the stuff about the less talked about A/E or A+E key slot that may or may not be PCI 3.0 too (see dell manual's - always so clear).

I can get an external video adapter that claims it will provide full Gbps that pci 3.0 GPU slots use... but, and its more of a big 'BUT'... I read that I may use all the PCI slots with the current NVME (Lexar SSD mentioned above) and end up with my NVME SSD using the full 3.0 x16 lanes, and I read that I will possibly be stuck with x1 lane on the wifi (A/E) slot for the NVME if i install it using an adapter (as the adapters all say 'only access to x1 lane')

if I put my NVME SSD (using an Mkey / A+E key adapter) in the A/E slot (from other users and hardware feedback) I may only get 1x lane or between 550-800MB per sec read and write speed vs my current 3480 Read/3460 Write speeds

Now I am also told in other forums that the A/E key slot will give me 2.5Gbps, Dell specs seem to show I have 2 wifi card options on that pc.
I searched them, both are A/E key slot factor, one is slow (which iIhave) and the other, (thanks intel specs) hits 2.4Gbps (which is on par with the speed others claim, despite if that is wifi or internal transfer speeds to the motherboard from the card).

8gbps, down to 2.4, for graphics, could suck... but I am trying to work out if the signal back and forth is just delivering the 'do this' data, and 'processed' data being returned - ie pictures for my internal graphics to display, or AI work that's processed.

If 2.4Gbps is all I get, and hoping that i don't get PCI x1 speeds for the graphics, I assume that I could then even game a little.

The onboard NVIDIA (if I upgrade) may not cut it to do AI work, there are work arounds that may enable it, but the drivers from the upgrade apparently will assist the chance of clashes when I get an external card (ie the onboard intel trying to talk to an external NVIDIA could clash, which I also heard happen when using differing graphics cards). Nvidia is required to run the software so I have to get a GTX/RTX of 4 or 6GB plus.

I am hoping that, as I have a HDD on the SATA (which was just to transfer from the old samsung SSD to the new NVME), if I remove the SATA HDD, I could gain 1x PCI lane.

I plan to get a USB wifi/bluetooth and an adapter for putting the NVME into the A/E key as I may need to swap the SSD and Graphics around to look at performance for configurations.
I plan to buy 2 adapter cables for the external card slot one being the A/E key to PCI 3.0, the other to be M key to PCI 3.0.

this way i can put the NVME into the A/E key slot if the graphics do much better in the M.2 Mkey slot or vice a versa if the graphics doesn't show too much loss in the A/E

But... i could save a ton of time and money if someone more up to date can assist me!

 

[rgd1101]

get a new pc

 

[Eximo]

That wall of text I would really have to sit down and translate.

What I gather is you want to swap out the PCIe NVMe SSD and put in a M.2 to x16 graphics adapter. If the slot is PCIe 3.0 you get PCIe 3.0 4x or whatever the maximum speed the adapter is.

You will still need external power, ie a whole power supply, for just the graphics card.

You generally can't install NVMe M.2 drives in E keyed slots, usually shorter. So you would be spending more on a drive, that will be relatively slow, if you wanted to do that.

It is a giant waste of time. Sell your AIO, and build something.

 

[thestryker]

The Dell AIOs are just laptop boards with little to no expandability so you only have the PCIe 3.0 x4 from the M.2 and that's it. Running anything off the E key is going to be a hassle if it works at all. At risk of sounding like a broken record as the above posters have said this system isn't worth the trouble.

 

[Aeacus]

if I put my NVME SSD (using an Mkey / A+E key adapter) in the A/E slot (from other users and hardware feedback) I may only get 1x lane or between 550-800MB per sec read and write speed vs my current 3480 Read/3460 Write speeds

Not that you "may get" x1 lane, but you WILL get only x1 lane.

A/E slots support two PCI-E x1 lanes. So, one can say that the slot, overall, supports x2 lanes, but in reality, you can not combine them. So, when you have wi-fi/bluetooth combo module, one lane is for wi-fi, while another lane is for bluetooth. But when you jerry-rig M.2 NVMe SSD into it, you can only utilize one lane. That is, IF the MoBo is even able to detect and utilize M-key SSD with adapter in the A/E-key slot.

Dell specs seem to show I have 2 wifi card options on that pc.

There is only one A/E-key wi-fi/bluetooth M.2 slot. 2nd slot is M-key M.2 for storage drive,
specs: https://www.dell.com/support/manual...a15840-40ce-4010-9bc9-36b1e604211c&lang=en-us

this way i can put the NVME into the A/E key slot if the graphics do much better in the M.2 Mkey slot

Putting PCI-E 3.0 x16 GPU via adapter to PCI-E 3.0 x4 M.2 slot, will have only 4x lanes left for GPU to utilize. That's 4 times less that GPU is capable of. It won't be pretty.

All-in-all, what you want to do, can't be done. Futile effort. Better buy standard ATX MoBo with dedicated PCI-E x16 slot for GPU. And build the rest of the PC around it.

 

[DrunkNseriouS]

get a new pc

Your comment is unhelpful.

 

[DSzymborski]

Your comment is unhelpful.

It's brusque, but it's the best answer to the question. The hardware you're using is extremely unsuitable for the task you want to accomplish.

 

[DrunkNseriouS]

That wall of text I would really have to sit down and translate.

What I gather is you want to swap out the PCIe NVMe SSD and put in a M.2 to x16 graphics adapter. If the slot is PCIe 3.0 you get PCIe 3.0 4x or whatever the maximum speed the adapter is.

You will still need external power, ie a whole power supply, for just the graphics card.

You generally can't install NVMe M.2 drives in E keyed slots, usually shorter. So you would be spending more on a drive, that will be relatively slow, if you wanted to do that.

It is a giant waste of time. Sell your AIO, and build something.

This is 5 years ago on YT. using an A/E key to EXP GDC PCI 3.0 external adapter with an Nvidia GTX760. -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3D3cZmqn0&t=4s
- just skip to the end as he is painful to watch, but it shows some gameplay on 1 lane really improves things.

Seeing this, I cant imagine using the M key with 4x, would not be yielding enough for me to do some okay AI image generation, be it slower than I would be used to.

I do have a dell 220w external PSU coming from an Optiplex ('D220P-01' 'DA-2' PSU) it plugs into the adapter directly with 220w of power, so I am thinking a 1070/1080 GTX. the EXP GDC adapter is built for this specific PSU or an internal one from a PC

My option for the storage issue, if I avoid the A/E key to graphics adapter, would be:

1. Using SATA to M.2 M key adapter, I will be limited to SATA speeds, 550R/530W but I could then free up the main m.2 slot for the graphics instead of using A/E key adapter.

2. A $19aud adapter from m key to a/e key - I figure it is worth testing it for that price - if I am lucky enough to be able to use it for anything other than the wifi/bluetooth module. Speeds for the SSD you can buy for A/E key are around 815R/760W so if the adapter is okay, I might gain close to these speeds.

3. The other option is the USB C 10Gbps to m.2 adapters available so that I can put my NVMe in this - I see reviews of these only getting up to 700~1000MB/s R/W due to being USB packets and not SATA or PCIe packets, apparently around 800~850 is common R/W speeds.

All the above are better than a mechanical HDD at least.

I have to disable the PXE boot apparently for graphics to run on A/E key, the same might be required for the NVMe.

I will get the a/e to m2, and get the m2 to pcie external graphics and let you know how it all goes.

Another option would be if I can RAID 0 with my other SSD... as the A/E key adapter may end up working.

 

[Eximo]

Software raid with different controllers is just asking for trouble.

We aren't saying it can't work, just that it is stupid and fraught with issues. Exposed wiring everywhere, using an underpowered PSU to run a GPU (That I would actively avoid)

You are also relying on all of these dodgy adapters to arrive and work as expected, they may not. They may even cause damage if they were improperly assembled. Good luck getting your money back.

Just buy a pile of used desktop components and bench build a system at that point, it would be safer. Used office PCs are around $150 and would work well enough for your purposes.

 

[DrunkNseriouS]

It's brusque, but it's the best answer to the question. The hardware you're using is extremely unsuitable for the task you want to accomplish.

I know, but it's the cost of going new.

I don't need max/awesome speeds, I'm just trying to find a work around so that I can have improved graphics for the image AI work on Fooocus, and not to need to stick with my mechanical HDD or a SATA to m.2 adapter (still 3450MB/s down to 140MB/s or 550MB/s is a Massive/Big drop!)

if I find a usable way to do this then I will post results

 

[rgd1101]

then why are you asking? follow the youtube
and yes let us know how it work

 

[Aeacus]

but it shows some gameplay on 1 lane really improves things.

Because 6,25% of something is better than 100% of nothing. That's why.
(x16 = 100%, x4 = 25%, x1 = 6,25%)

I know, but it's the cost of going new.

You'd be better off buying old office PC 2nd hand, that already has proper ATX MoBo in it (avoid Dell prebuilts). Then it is just the matter to plug in dedicated GPU (if it doesn't come with one) and maybe even upgrade the PSU (if the PSU it comes with is too weak for dedicated GPU). And with this, you have decent setup that has plenty of expansion options.

if I find a usable way to do this then I will post results

Your money, time and effort; so, your call.

 

[NedSmelly]

i could save a ton of time and money if someone more up to date can assist me

I thought that @rgd1101 's response was helpful and very sensible. But I suppose some people like doing things the hardest way possible.

But if you want to go down your own rabbit hole, then here's another YouTube link:
Dawid
(Someone who intentionally does irrational things for the clicks)