News TSMC and President Trump announce $100 billion investment in the US, including three fabs

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Like every other company announcing huge dollar signs with regards to investment I'll believe it when I see it. The packaging facility TSMC was supposed to be helping fund run by Amkor still hasn't broken ground as far as I'm aware. Over time if the investment makes sense I'm sure it will continue, but if it doesn't then I'd be surprised if they follow through. This reminds me of Foxconn and Wisconsin, because without strings there are never any guarantees.
 
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This simply won't get done fast enough for them to do it because of a tariff threat. So instead they will get a cut out while they don't really build and spend some money on the project then cancel in 4 years.

I bet they spend at most 4 billion over the next 4 years on planning and then do nothing. It's exactly why tariff without congress just don't work. This is just bad policy for headlines.

I hope TSMC goes through with it...but I just don't buy it.
 
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The tariffs last time were fairly targeted and on areas where they felt competition was "unfair". These are much more sweeping and general, if they end up working I agree, but at the first sign of pain or inflation I think another administration would loosen them fairly quickly.
 
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Intel, the best fab during the early 2010s
***Some sociopolitical shift happened**
Intel: *Dead*

TSMC, the best fab currently
***Same sociopolitical environment***
TSMC: ??????????
 
Where the chips are made is fairly irrelevant when the boards and GPUs that they are attached to are still made in Asia.

Everybody forgets about that.
 
tony-w said:
Are these new fabs or just the same ones that were being planned in October last year

Last October news articles talked about new Arizona TSMC fabs :
- FAB21-1 4nm & 5nm due 2025
- Fab21-2 3nm due 2026
- Fab21-3 2nm due 2028

Trump loves to take credit for everything he had nothing to do with.
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Are you asking a question? Did you even read the article?
 
JamesJones44 said:
The tariffs last time were fairly targeted and on areas where they felt competition was "unfair". These are much more sweeping and general, if they end up working I agree, but at the first sign of pain or inflation I think another administration would loosen them fairly quickly.
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Tariffs have a couple downsides other than the ones most people seem to focus on. One is the impact on exporters. Tariffs increase costs of downstream producers, which makes their exports less competitive vs. foreign competition. The effect this can have is to encourage domestic exporters to offshore their production for export, which means loss of US jobs and hurts our trade deficit.

Another reason economists don't like tariffs is that they enable the domestic producers to be less efficient. Essentially, if you impose a 25% tariff on a commodity that's being imported, domestic producers have little incentive to sell their version for much less than that 25% inflated price. This hurts the viability of their goods on the export market and it means they're in for a rude awakening if/when those tariffs ever get relaxed.
 
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bit_user said:
Tariffs have a couple downsides other than the ones most people seem to focus on. One is the impact on exporters. Tariffs increase costs of downstream producers, which makes their exports less competitive vs. foreign competition. The effect this can have is to encourage domestic exporters to offshore their production for export, which means loss of US jobs and hurts our trade deficit.

Another reason economists don't like tariffs is that they enable the domestic producers to be less efficient. Essentially, if you impose a 25% tariff on a commodity that's being imported, domestic producers have little incentive to sell their version for much less than that 25% inflated price. This hurts the viability of their goods on the export market and it means they're in for a rude awakening if/when those tariffs ever get relaxed.
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There is also the tit for tat effect when tariffs are placed on your own exports making them too expensive for consumers in those countries. China has just placed tariffs on American beef and many grains. It is good for countries like Australia, who believe in free markets, as we can swoop in and win those contracts where the US can no longer compete. We aren't cheap because of our labour costs but we are competitive and with zero tariffs we have to be as efficient as possible to compete successfully.
 
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bit_user said:
Another reason economists don't like tariffs is that they enable the domestic producers to be less efficient. Essentially, if you impose a 25% tariff on a commodity that's being imported, domestic producers have little incentive to sell their version for much less than that 25% inflated price. This hurts the viability of their goods on the export market and it means they're in for a rude awakening if/when those tariffs ever get relaxed.
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It's been a while, but didn't something like this happen back during the Reagan administration? My memory's fuzzy on this, but I think it was something like there were tariffs put on Japanese autos (maybe other products as well, but I only remember autos), and the American car companies simply raised their prices by nearly the same amount.

Don't quote me on that, though.
 
tony-w said:
Are these new fabs or just the same ones that were being planned in October last year

Last October news articles talked about new Arizona TSMC fabs :
- FAB21-1 4nm & 5nm due 2025
- Fab21-2 3nm due 2026
- Fab21-3 2nm due 2028

Trump loves to take credit for everything he had nothing to do with.
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The same ones. 21-1 already had the initial investment and is putting out 4nm chips. TSMC just finalized it is all.
But like thestryker stated, other facilities, mentioned by TSMC previously, haven't even broken ground yet. Time will tell.
 
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bit_user said:
Tariffs have a couple downsides other than the ones most people seem to focus on. One is the impact on exporters. Tariffs increase costs of downstream producers, which makes their exports less competitive vs. foreign competition. The effect this can have is to encourage domestic exporters to offshore their production for export, which means loss of US jobs and hurts our trade deficit.

Another reason economists don't like tariffs is that they enable the domestic producers to be less efficient. Essentially, if you impose a 25% tariff on a commodity that's being imported, domestic producers have little incentive to sell their version for much less than that 25% inflated price. This hurts the viability of their goods on the export market and it means they're in for a rude awakening if/when those tariffs ever get relaxed.
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At first I was wondering why you directed this toward me when I was responding to another post. Then I noticed that the original post I quoted is gone and so is the quote that I added. Is this new??? Quotes used to stay, even when a post was deleted, though I suppose it may have been removed for political reasons which might be different.
 
JamesJones44 said:
I noticed that the original post I quoted is gone and so is the quote that I added. Is this new??? Quotes used to stay, even when a post was deleted, though I suppose it may have been removed for political reasons which might be different.
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I don't know if deleting quotes of a deleted post is automated or just something mods manually do, but I've indeed seen it before. If I'm quoting a post that seems to cross the line, I try not to include any out-of-bounds parts of it in my quote.
 
bit_user said:
I don't know if deleting quotes of a deleted post is automated or just something mods manually do, but I've indeed seen it before. If I'm quoting a post that seems to cross the line, I try not to include any out-of-bounds parts of it in my quote.
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Out of context I understand the response as my post by itself seems weird. It was in response to someone thinking the tariffs would live forever, even under a new administration.
 
Gaidax said:
The bottleneck are the chips. PCBs are non-issue at all. They are made in Asia because you have highly educated slave labor there, not because there is some one-of-a-kind manufacturing facility.
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They are made in Asia because of three reasons - cheap labor, negligible environmental regulations (electronics are by far the most toxic industry), and a pipeline of skilled labor ready to operate the equipment.
 
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