News TSMC Arizona struggles to overcome vast differences between Taiwanese and US work culture

[Gururu]

Good old Intel. The Boeing of Semiconductors. We'll see if they're able to pull a rabbit out of the hat in the next 6 months, but I'm doubtful. There's a reason their stock is trash and back to levels a quarter of a century ago. TSMC has been firing on all cylinders and hasn't let up to allow the competition to even catch their breath.

This has nothing to do with Intel. BTW, TSMC only manufacturers chips for other companies they don’t design.

Can’t blame Arizona employee base for this. Getting working people from communities with zero silicon industry knowledge is a tall order. How long has TMSC Taiwan been running…

 

[rluker5]

There's just no incentive to be a good worker in the U.S. You can be the best worker in your state and you still get fired when there's a recession, like everyone else. It used to be that ownership would take pay cuts to try to take care of its long-term employees. Now top level execs and owners milk the company and run it into the ground, then jump ship.

So worker culture will get worse as job security gets worse. It's tough to put in extra work when you won't get paid and you won't get credit.

Maybe other people have had good working experiences in the U.S. over the last 20 years?

My incentive is it the right thing to do.
But I'm staying on hourly. My ethic doesn't play well with salary. I go home and have no worries or guilt and I get to make what makes what people want to buy.

 

[weaver27]

Highly skilled US workers are finding that salary is not the way to go since it ends up with lots of overtime. Best practice is to work as a contractor who can get time and a half for hours over 40 per week. 12 hours a day * 6 days a week is a lot more doable when you get paid overtime rates. If you are salary then that kind of working for free is just BS. No one is going to see that kind of self-abuse as intelligent behavior. But since we are approaching a recession and there are now lots of technical people out of work, it may work until the tech sector improves.

But when you add in the toxic management, the only way you will get workers who are not fresh graduates is to pay a lot of money with overtime. If I am going to suffer, I need to be paid well to endure that nonsense.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

They're not helping themselves by using "Taiwanese transplants" either. "Work as hard as we tell you to or we'll fire you and bring in our own people" comes across about as well as "Work as hard as we tell you to or we'll fire you and replace you with a machine/AI".

Also, Taiwan is about 14,000mi², slightly bigger than Maryland, attracting talent from the far corners of the nation is a much less big deal than trying to recruit talent from around the USA, asking them to invest tens of thousands in moving cross country and take a job at a place reputed to treat you like dirt and willing to replace you at the drop of a hat and leaving you with no other nearby place to go.

 

[awake283]

They'll have to create a plan. Something like 'The Toyota Way' or Six Sigma. It can be done, but it needs to be a company philosophy. It's going to be difficult no matter what - in Taiwan kids dream of working for TSMC, not quite the same thing here.

 

[awake283]

Wow, this is depressing. Why does it have to be this way?

It's just a culture gap. I lived in Beijing for years and it was similar. Doesn't make it right, but it's just how it is. With little exposure to working conditions in other countries, and an insanely competitive job market, you get places like TSMC. They aren't alone in their mindset though, it's most of Asia.

 

[hannibal]

That is reason why companies moves to Asia and stop production in western countries,,. It is part of clobal economy. If some one somewhere do the same job cheaper… the production moves to there. Now one of those companies try same in USA… and finds out that it is not possible or harder… they wont invest more in the future and if needed stop the production in Arizona, because it is not ”worth of it”.
Money follows money…

 

[Eskimou]

I keep seeing this about TSMC, but makes me wonder why Samsung hasn't had any issues yet. It's early in the process so maybe the will pop up, but thus far Samsung hasn't been complaining about culture differences. Maybe this is more of a TSMC issue they are trying to pass off instead of owning. I guess well see in a few months how the Samsung plant in Taylor Texas progresses.

Main difference with comparing the two projects is that Samsung has been operating in Austin, Texas since the late 90's (nearly 30 years). They've built two fabs in Austin, a short drive from Taylor, and probably went through the same learning experiences with differences in culture between American work force compared to Korean one they were used to. Most of the people that will work in Taylor are likely coming from the existing Samsung fab in Austin so they are used to the culture, demands, etc.

 

[bolweval]

They're not helping themselves by using "Taiwanese transplants" either. "Work as hard as we tell you to or we'll fire you and bring in our own people" comes across about as well as "Work as hard as we tell you to or we'll fire you and replace you with a machine/AI".

Also, Taiwan is about 14,000mi², slightly bigger than Maryland, attracting talent from the far corners of the nation is a much less big deal than trying to recruit talent from around the USA, asking them to invest tens of thousands in moving cross country and take a job at a place reputed to treat you like dirt and willing to replace you at the drop of a hat and leaving you with no other nearby place to go.

Not to mention moving to a scorching hot desert…

 

[_Shatta_AD_]

I’ve worked in a major foreign Taiwanese corporation before and I can tell you. These guys don’t f*k around with their bottom line. They’re all about profit margins and figuring ways to maximize their capital with as little resources as possible. So they can use those capital to aggressively expand their operations. On the one hand, it can lead to great productivity and hence profitability if they receive no push back. Usually though they push their employees to the limit. If you’re not from countries with strict work culture with focus on output using competitive bonuses as motivation and minimal resources, then you will never get used to it.

 

[_Shatta_AD_]

Reason why TSMC is such a successful company with such a high market share basically revolves around this strict work culture. If they lose this advantage, then they’ll just be another Samsung or Intel. They’re probably smashing themselves in the head on why they decide to expand into America. Slowly they’ll lose that competitive edge just like other hi tech companies that expand into the US.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too, it’s a delicate balance. If you want great success then you’d need to be prepared to make that sacrifice. Can’t do the bare minimum and still expect to be competitive with others who’s willing to make that sacrifice. TSMC knows that, but alas, they’re in America and at the mercy of the US government.
Then you turn around and jeered at those people in Taiwan who sacrificed and call them slaves, foolish, abused, “insert negative terms”.

 

[dalauder]

That's actually sad. And I don't want to say it's all fun and rainbows in Germany, I did experience an abusive workplace before where the boss outright yelled at employees for every perceived mess-up. I still remember how the kind secretary came out the office crying because the boss yelled at her for half an hour for not consulting them about a wrong databaseentry before correcting the error. I didn't even make the probationary period there. When my current employer called with a job offer, I pounced at it. No regrets. I earn almost twice for my work (though I do have more responsibilities, too) and even when an issue crops up its discussed in a productive way. Got acknowledgement twice this year alone for excellent work. I work as a database manager/developer, GIS technician and environmental engineer (weird combo, I know xD).

And, see. The thing with having to take leave because you are sick is just not a thing here. They can't force you to do that. I had a car accident back in May because someone somehow managed to overlook my standing at a red traffic light and tried to run it. Couldn't work for over two weeks, all of it paid, no leave taken for it because it's pretty much illegal here to force the employee to do that, you can into huge trouble. Still returned to (remote) work far too early. And my employer? Told me to consider more sick leave since I was still not fine, and nobody wins when I destroy my health over a false sense of duty. Overtime is also strictly capped to 20h at any time, and even when I just get close to that mark they will ask me to take comp time, lol.

It's also harder to fire people here. Someone from the US told me once how their office mate was fire one second to the next. Unless it's the first 6 months (or less, depending on your contract), that won't work here unless you do something really bad, like embezzlement or stuff like that. You always have transition period, and you usually cannot be fired without any reason. It leads to a much better work environment normally. Surprising, I know... not having to fear for your job improves morale and productivity!

Thanks for sharing. It does answer my question about where you work though--not in the United States. I'll be encouraging my kids to move to Europe right after college because the U.S. seems hell bent on making work environments oppressive and low paying, regardless of skill level. I know the U.K. offers visas to recent graduates from top schools, so there's a viable path to them moving there.

 

[dalauder]

My incentive is it the right thing to do.
But I'm staying on hourly. My ethic doesn't play well with salary. I go home and have no worries or guilt and I get to make what makes what people want to buy.

Don't get me wrong--I always do the job I'm paid to do. But going above-and-beyond, like I might do for my own projects or if I were part-owner? No, that's not worth it.

Too often, hard work isn't credited correctly and firing isn't related to performance. Bottom line: a company from Taiwan can't find workers in Arizona with the motivations they're used to. Workers from Arizona will be expecting to get fired next year and won't ever be invested.