News TSMC Reportedly Overpowers Apple in Negotiations Over Price Increases

[derekullo]

All signs post to a technology crash in the making. TSMC is raising prices to absurd levels due to their monopoly, resulting in ridiculous prices for tech products and tanking sales.

Combine that with a strong $ making iPhone unaffordable to anyone but americans. Apple is in a lot more trouble than they let out.

Because inflation affects everyone except TSMC ?

 

[10tacle]

I haven't had the slightest interest in the iPhone for many reasons, even to this day as Samsung's top tiers compete with them directly in overpriced hardware. One of the strongest selling points for me for going Android over Apple for a smart phone for over a decade now has been flexibility in upgrades. I can swap the battery; I can expand the memory with a micro SD card; I have an actual 3.5mm headphone/bud jack and not worry about BT battery life. I have less app restrictions that are not "approved" by Apple ("approved" meaning the app developer wouldn't or couldn't bend over far enough for Apple fees). My last Android purchased was 4 years ago, a Samsung Note 9, and it still serves well which was a $1000 phone in 2018.

The people I know who are Apple users feel they have to get the newest one that comes out every time. It is almost cult like. Bear in mind these are the same people who are complaining about gas and food prices being significantly up.

 

[JamesJones44]

I have less app restrictions that are not "approved" by Apple ("approved" meaning the app developer wouldn't or couldn't bend over far enough for Apple fees).

The fee structure for the Apple App Store and Google Play Store are almost identical.

 

[JamesJones44]

Because inflation affects everyone except TSMC ?

You do realize inflation is not a global issue right? Some countries have inflation far worse than the US has and some have far less... Like Tiwana which has had year over year inflation of 1.1% vs the US's 8+%

 

[2+2]

A few commenters in this thread need to stop watching alarmist YT videos and get a life.

Do I have your permission
to watch Climate Change Alarmist YT videos?

 

[escksu]

Oversupply is coming soon. The high demand during covid means we will now have low demand for a while (maybe 1-2yrs).

And then inflation is also causing demand to go down. People would rather stick with old hardware for longer time.

semiconductor is not going to do well for now.

 

[digitalgriffin]

All signs post to a technology crash in the making. TSMC is raising prices to absurd levels due to their monopoly, resulting in ridiculous prices for tech products and tanking sales.

Combine that with a strong $ making iPhone unaffordable to anyone but americans. Apple is in a lot more trouble than they let out.

A strong dollar means USA gets more for their dollar from foreign nations like Taiwan. However it makes buying stuff from the USA more expensive. That creates a greater trade deficit

 

[ohio_buckeye]

A few commenters in this thread need to stop watching alarmist YT videos and get a life.

While I understand what you’re saying, in regards to building fabs in the USA, competition is always a good thing imo. In regards to smart phones, I agree. I do have an iPhone 11, but it runs perfectly fine. 3 years old now but it’s enough.

As far as other things, look at cars, why on earth do we need cars with everything under the sun? One of my favorite cars was a 1995 Chevy Beretta with a v6 engine that had a basic radio that was swapped for a pioneer radio and had crank windows. It was a fun little ride and got decent mileage. I guess I don’t see a need for cars with infotainment systems and heated seats etc. A car I had later, a little 2006 dodge stratus, I swapped the stock stereo for a 50 dollar aftermarket one that had bluetooth built in and it worked great.

Anyway I digress. I’m actually a tech, and personally I won’t have a smart thermostat or Alexa in the house. I do have a ring doorbell, but that’s outside. I do have a roku and we stream our TV shows. But having too many smart devices is too much tech for me personally. Maybe I’m showing my age lol.

 

[escksu]

You do realize inflation is not a global issue right? Some countries have inflation far worse than the US has and some have far less... Like Tiwana which has had year over year inflation of 1.1% vs the US's 8+%

Taiwan's inflation is low due to several reasons and one of them is they just open up their coutnry for tourists.

This is going to drive up demand very soon.

 

[shady28]

Apple needed to be kicked down a peg. Who was it going to go to for its next chips? Samsung? Intel? LOL. TSMC called Apple's bluff. Apple might leave in the future, but only if it can start building its own fabs. (That's a joke. Apple isn't going to make its own fabs.) I don't think anyone currently has something superior to TSMC N5, never mind N4 and N3. Apple literally had no other potential manufacturer unless it wanted to make its next-gen chips worse than the current gen.

If you've been around this space a while, you know what happens next. This kind of thing has happened before with Fabs, modems, sensors, cameras, and displays with Apple. They've been in a single supplier situation where they lose price control before and they absolutely hate it with a passion.

In every single instance Apple has diversified, and while TSMC may be the only place for "N3" class parts right now they most likely will not be the sole source in 12 months.

Apple doesn't have to 'switch', they can just have a percentage done elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised at all to read 2 or 3 years from now how Apple had started a group to port to alternate nodes like Samsung 3 or Intel 3 many months before this happened, anticipating it. Or perhaps, have been doing it all along.

Apple's sales are going to be bad too, which likely will make them put more pressure on suppliers. The iPhone 14 is a dud, regardless of whatever marketing and fan hype is out there the 12, 13, 14 don't just look the same they act the same to 99.9% of users. Not enough of the Pro will sell to offset that. Count on it.

 

[hotaru251]

. TSMC is raising prices to absurd levels due to their monopoly

might want to look at what a monopoly is...

TSMC is not the only producer.

and if you read article TSMC offered low prior price increases which is why msot are fine with current one (except nvidia and apple casue they are greedy pos companies with awful leaders)

Apple is a significant customer of TSMC, said to account for approximately 25% of its business. However, this doesn’t appear to have given Cupertino any significant leverage over TSMC, as today’s report says that the foundry would not budge in its price increase demands.

I did find it nice to see apple get its own medicine forced on it.

Needed to learn it isnt always able to get what it wants.

 

[spongiemaster]

I did find it nice to see apple get its own medicine forced on it.

Needed to learn it isnt always able to get what it wants.

Not sure what you're so excited about. I don't buy Apple products, so I don't care, but Apple isn't going to eat these price increases. They're going to pass them on to the customer one way or another, so Apple isn't going to be taking anyone's medicine.

 

[Ogotai]

TSMC raises its prices by 5%, apple raises its prices by 10-15% 😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

[Neilbob]

Not sure what you're so excited about. I don't buy Apple products, so I don't care, but Apple isn't going to eat these price increases. They're going to pass them on to the customer one way or another, so Apple isn't going to be taking anyone's medicine.

Exactly this. Not sure why people think otherwise. Apple have the shareholders to think of, and the shareholders don't want to see any kind of decreases to either revenue or profit, regardless of any negative impact on the everyday consumer.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

It is becoming apparent that Taiwan makes the most advanced chips,
that can't be made anywhere else,
and is essential to the Top American tech companies, not just Apple.

This a DISSASTER in the Waiting.
The Hurt that Russia put on the West
by reducing the supply of a few percent of COMMODITY oil and gas,
is nothing compared to the HURT we will feel,
when China halts the supply of these essential chips.

We are so vulnerable, you could make a movie about this.
Oh, they did make a James Bond movie about this.
Cue evil villain that wants to control the world, Xi.

This is exactly why I never wanted our country to lose our fabs in the first place we should manufacture everything here. When our own military can’t make their own electronics, we are in big big trouble.

let this be a lesson to all the morons out there who think that outsourcing is a good idea. You are all completely and unequivocally wrong.

 

[jasonf2]

This is exactly why I never wanted our country to lose our fabs in the first place we should manufacture everything here. When our own military can’t make their own electronics, we are in big big trouble.

let this be a lesson to all the morons out there who think that outsourcing is a good idea. You are all completely and unequivocally wrong.

In a globalized capitalist market that is allowed to work with semi-totalitarian countries bent on controlling markets by any means in their control outsourcing is the only way to survive. The state enforced price manipulation out of the Asian Pacific region has put everyone with a moral conscience out of business decades ago. Some corporates are starting to see that China in particular is a pretty major supplier risk with everything going on but they are still cheap. That doesn't mean that the manufacturing will move where you want it, just somewhere cheap with less risk. The only way the US and Europe competes in this market is either major trade barriers that even the playing field or subsidization. Both of which have been put into play in the last couple of years in the microchip side. Some reinvestment is happening in US production. The issue here though is that in any of these case scenarios the cost always goes to the consumer. Microchips should be the least of our concerns. I pray that we start to see some major domestic US steel production brought back online. This shortage pinch is largely in part to the overall raw material supply manipulation, not ore shortages. Those shortages are pushing down quantity supplied on everything and creating a huge part of our inflation issues today.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

What does it cost you when you can’t run your own military? Your argument on costs is weak. What’s the cost of a completely broken economy, and a nation in ruin?

as long as elite globalists run the world this is what we’re going to get and it’s only going to get worse.

 

[shady28]

<snip>
The people I know who are Apple users feel they have to get the newest one that comes out every time. It is almost cult like. Bear in mind these are the same people who are complaining about gas and food prices being significantly up.

I'll just say that objectively, I don't see this at all, and there are studies that contradict that statement entirely.

There are some studies on this that indicate the average iPhone in use is 4 years 3 months old. Given they have support for 5 years, this makes sense.

I see this in real life. Even within the IT area I function in, most people with iPhones that I know keep them at least 3 years. Someone who bought for example an iPhone 11 on release in 2019, might just now be thinking about an upgrade.

In point of fact it has long been a complaint on the Android side, and when I used Android was a concern of mine, that Android phones tend to stop being supported almost immediately after being succeeded by the next model. Two years seems to still be the norm outside of the iPhone. Even top tier models when supported, tend to not come out with updates for months after an issue is found.

Google's own 'Pixel' phones were the exception, and probably the only ones I'd be willing to even look at these days.

 

[10tacle]

The fee structure for the Apple App Store and Google Play Store are almost identical.

Again, there are apps on Google Play that are NOT available on Apple App.

 

[10tacle]

I'll just say that objectively, I don't see this at all, and there are studies that contradict that statement entirely. There are some studies on this that indicate the average iPhone in use is 4 years 3 months old. Given they have support for 5 years, this makes sense.

I'm sure that's for the global market which really waters down the average. Wealthier nation residents (US specifically) are going to spend their money on the latest. Always. Those mad lines for every new iPhone release at stores are real. You never see this mass hysteria with the latest Android phone, and the younger the buyer, the more the hysteria. Most phones are bought on a two year contract anyway which matches the Apple cadence of a year and a half to two years between phones.

Now regarding Android support stop, it is up to the phone manufacturer. My Samsung Note 5 which is now 7 years old still works fine as a backup phone on T-Mobile even though it hasn't had an update in over three years. Google App still works fine as does every new version of my internet security software. The earlier Androids from the late '00s and early '10s were the offenders of leaving owners high and dry. I was a victim of that with a Motorola Droid Bionic - but it only cost me $399 - all two years worth of owning it. And I'll never buy another Motorola because of just that. But back to my point, Androids can be upgraded, and iPhones cannot. One need look no further than right on Amazon for the amount of refurb sellers selling older Android phones like my 4 year old Note 9 with high demand.

 

[JamesJones44]

Again, there are apps on Google Play that are NOT available on Apple App.

That doesn't explain your quote saying it's because of their fees. Their fees are the same, you're pointing to something as a reason that isn't true.

 

[10tacle]

You think I'm just making this up and this is not affecting potential app developers for IOS?

French iOS developers file antitrust suit over Apple's App Store fees | TechCrunch

Apple is facing yet another antitrust lawsuit over its App Store fees, this time filed by a group of French iOS app developers who are suing the tech

techcrunch.com

 

[JamesJones44]

You think I'm just making this up and this is not affecting potential app developers for IOS?

French iOS developers file antitrust suit over Apple's App Store fees | TechCrunch

Apple is facing yet another antitrust lawsuit over its App Store fees, this time filed by a group of French iOS app developers who are suing the tech

techcrunch.com

It's not the reason there are less apps in the App Store as there are on Google Play. Anti Trust over Apple is because they don't allow side loading or other market places within their eco-system, if you read the article you would see that is the actual reason.

There are less apps on the Apple App Store because of restrictions, not because of fee structure.

You can see in this simple article Apple and Google charge the same fees... https://www.theverge.com/21445923/platform-fees-apps-games-business-marketplace-apple-google

 

[shady28]

I'm sure that's for the global market which really waters down the average. Wealthier nation residents (US specifically) are going to spend their money on the latest. Always. Those mad lines for every new iPhone release at stores are real. You never see this mass hysteria with the latest Android phone, and the younger the buyer, the more the hysteria. Most phones are bought on a two year contract anyway which matches the Apple cadence of a year and a half to two years between phones.

Now regarding Android support stop, it is up to the phone manufacturer. My Samsung Note 5 which is now 7 years old still works fine as a backup phone on T-Mobile even though it hasn't had an update in over three years. Google App still works fine as does every new version of my internet security software. The earlier Androids from the late '00s and early '10s were the offenders of leaving owners high and dry. I was a victim of that with a Motorola Droid Bionic - but it only cost me $399 - all two years worth of owning it. And I'll never buy another Motorola because of just that. But back to my point, Androids can be upgraded, and iPhones cannot. One need look no further than right on Amazon for the amount of refurb sellers selling older Android phones like my 4 year old Note 9 with high demand.

The numbers were actually from the US.

You're clearly interested in twisting reality for most Android owners into something about a specific device.

I'll just say you use anything without solid OS support and security patches in this day and age for the things people typically use their phones for, you're asking to lose everything to a hacker. For iPhones, that's 5 years from release. For Android.. it's whatever some guy on an internet forum told you, until it isn't...

 

[Mattzun]

Not sure how this got to be an Apple vs Android rant.

TSMC is still in a very weak position if it can't get 8-10 percent increases in wafer prices given the current rate of inflation and supposed shortages/increased prices for wafers.
It would NOT surprise me if the real price increases are higher prices for the bleeding edge nodes 2 or 3 nm nodes that Apple is moving too and that those increases were not included in the 5 percent mentioned in the article.

I'm really curious what kinds of price increases TSMC can get on the established 7/6/5 nodes for customers like AMD or NVidia