[SOLVED] Two houses on one internet service

[.454]

I've read some threads on running internet to a backyard shed or barn, but I have a family property with two fully functioning houses on it. I have cable internet coming into house 1 now. If I bury a cat 5e or cat6 cable coming off the router and going 150' into house 2, then run a second router in that house are there any issues running all the smart devices, streaming TVs, home office, etc? I know 100 meters is max length for a run but how much can one cat5e or cat6 line support?

House 1 is the "old" house and has:
1 streaming TV working at any given time
Wifi used by smart phones, tablets, and occasionally a PC.

House 2 will have:
Home office with two PCs working full time during the week.
POE camera security system
2 to 3 streaming TVs
Tablets and phones using Wifi
Other small devices using Wifi (smart lock, wireless thermometer, etc).

 

[bill001g]

Ethernet cables should not have a grounding issue from what I understand. They use magnetic isolation to improve data transmission as a secondary affect it prevents a lot of electical issues. There are tiny transformers on each pair and there should be no physical connection between these leads and the circuits in the router.

 

[SamirD]

Ethernet cables should not have a grounding issue from what I understand. They use magnetic isolation to improve data transmission as a secondary affect it prevents a lot of electical issues. There are tiny transformers on each pair and there should be no physical connection between these leads and the circuits in the router.

If this is the case, then the two ends of a cable should be isolated enough that even power surges, lightning, etc would just hit the transformers and take them out. But I've seen otherwise. And I've read several different threads like this over the years where fibre was the way to go to eliminate any electrical issues. Not sure what's true though anymore since I know you've got a lot of first hand experience in this stuff too. Now, I'm also wondering which would be right.

 

[bill001g]

If your read the IEEE documents on 802.3 (ie ethernet) they have diagrams. These are massive documents where they are discussing all the resistance and voltage levels. It has been years since i read those but I doubt they have changed the fundamental designs.

In modern equipment the transformers are not some big metal block with coils of wire wrapped around them. They are these tiny chips you can hardly see. I assume inside they are just tiny versions. If you have a large enough power surge or lightning strike it likely can jump between the 2 sides of the transformer and just fry the chip and anything connected.

I had a lighting strike recently. Every piece of my equipment is on both surge protectors and UPS. It damages all kinds of stuff on completely different UPS in different parts of the house. Mostly it fried power bricks but it got strange stuff like the onboard HDMI video port on a computer that took no other damage. It fried the ethernet wan port in the router as well as the modem, a 1 ft cable but both units would still boot and all the lan ports work on the router. Lightning seems to be able to bypass pretty much anything.

The thing you worry about more with 2 buildings it the ground loop where there are very slight differences and that allows current to flow between the grounds. So as long as you don't have something that is going to fry the chips the grounds should be isolated by a ethernet cable.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Thanks Bill. This is largely what I had thought as well, but didn't have the expertise to word it. But I understand the other points of view as well. I'm just not sure I agree with them and might need to do a bit more digging. I can say that I've never had any issues with my configuration and it's been running that way for years. It IS branched from the house (Does not have it's own drop from the pole), and DOES have it's own panel that is ALSO grounded separately from the house, and nothing has ever happened to any of the equipment.

Hopefully any or all of these details will help the OP make some informed choices as well.

 

[Darkbreeze]

If your read the IEEE documents on 802.3 (ie ethernet) they have diagrams. These are massive documents where they are discussing all the resistance and voltage levels. It has been years since i read those but I doubt they have changed the fundamental designs.

In modern equipment the transformers are not some big metal block with coils of wire wrapped around them. They are these tiny chips you can hardly see. I assume inside they are just tiny versions. If you have a large enough power surge or lightning strike it likely can jump between the 2 sides of the transformer and just fry the chip and anything connected.

I had a lighting strike recently. Every piece of my equipment is on both surge protectors and UPS. It damages all kinds of stuff on completely different UPS in different parts of the house. Mostly it fried power bricks but it got strange stuff like the onboard HDMI video port on a computer that took no other damage. It fried the ethernet wan port in the router as well as the modem, a 1 ft cable but both units would still boot and all the lan ports work on the router. Lightning seems to be able to bypass pretty much anything.

The thing you worry about more with 2 buildings it the ground loop where there are very slight differences and that allows current to flow between the grounds. So as long as you don't have something that is going to fry the chips the grounds should be isolated by a ethernet cable.

You should hear the story from @USAFRet about what happened with the strike at or near his property and the ghostly, Ripley's believe or it not happenings that occurred in that case. You are right, it can do weird stuff.

 

[.454]

Wow, it's been a busy week and forgot to check all the responses here! Thanks all for the suggestions.

I think the fiber line is the way to go. Doesn't seem complicated and wouldn't have to worry about grounding, but I do have a couple other questions. From what I read OM3 cable is optimized for laser while OM2 for LED. What determines the type of light used, the SPF port in the switch or the MBIC? Also, for pulling about 100' through conduit are there any considerations? It's there a possibility of breaking the glass core on a 90 degree bend?

 

[dorsai]

What determines the type of light used, the SPF port in the switch or the MBIC?
Also, for pulling about 100' through conduit are there any considerations? It's there a possibility of breaking the glass core on a 90 degree bend?

The type of light is equipment specific...simply check with the manufacturer and use the recommended fiber cord type. Verify the connector types on the cords before ordering as their are different types.

Pulling 100 feet of fiber patch cord should be done with a pull rope. Essentially your tying the patch cord to a rope (reversed electrical tape every 3 or 4ft works well) and pulling it through the conduit so the tension is always on the rope and never on the fiber cord. Never pull on the fiber cord itself.

It's always best to place a pull box (called a "wire hand hold" in the trades) at each end of a conduit run so you're pulling straight and then hand feeding through the 90 and into the next junction box typically at the side of the building. Fiber patch cord simply lying in a 90 with no tension on it is 100% fine.

This is the exact type of box to place at each end of the conduit -
https://www.amazon.com/Oldcastle-Pr...01e0a&pd_rd_wg=sAmr4&pd_rd_i=B07DMQHDQP&psc=1

Then your as short as possible conduit run from the above box to a buried 90 at the side of the building then up the wall to where you'd have another small pull box to pull to...then it would run inside from there.

This video is a good example of how to place the last few feet and make the bend into the house. The only difference is your last bit of conduit comes from your pull box in the ground.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dYqhMEUkfE


One note - it's always a good idea to pull in a spare pull rope along side your fiber in case you want to pull in a second fiber or replace the original at a later date.

 

[bill001g]

I suspect it is not going to matter much at the extremely short distance you are running. Multimode fiber is rated to over 500 meters at gigabit speeds. But check the SFP it will tell you what you need to know. My guess is you will use OM2 with short haul led SFP.

Your problem pulling fiber is you are not going to be able to afford to do it correctly. Fiber designed to be pulled has a core wire or string with the fiber in the same cable. There is a very tough outer jacket that will not be damaged.
This is a example

https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Indoor-Distribution-Optic-Multimode/dp/B00BKT3PNE/

You will notice there are no ends which makes it even harder for a DIY install.

What you are going to have to use are premade patch cables. These are not deigned to be pulled though conduit they are extremely fragile. There are at best designed to be manually run between racks in a data center.

Now you can if you are extremely careful run these though conduit. Just be aware you can shatter the fiber by wrapping it around your finger.

The way I have done it is to take a long rope or heavy string that is as long as fiber. Use tape and carefully tape it the whole length. This allows you to pull the string and fiber just comes along with it. The string will stay in the conduit since you can't remove the tape. Be extremely careful if you feel a very slight resistance stop and see whats wrong. I would use at least 1 inch flexible conduit you need to be able to pull it with as little stress as possible. I have actually run these like this but it make me very nervous, I have broke a number of fibers where I used to work just unplugging them carelessly from equipment.

 

[SamirD]

You should hear the story from @USAFRet about what happened with the strike at or near his property and the ghostly, Ripley's believe or it not happenings that occurred in that case. You are right, it can do weird stuff.

Link to story? It's always good to find out what the 'weird case' looks like.

 

[SamirD]

One note - it's always a good idea to pull in a spare pull rope along side your fiber in case you want to pull in a second fiber or replace the original at a later date.

Or as cheap as pre-terminated fibre is--just run two. 😀

 

[Darkbreeze]

Link to story? It's always good to find out what the 'weird case' looks like.

Yeah, that's why I pinged him with the @. It's his story to tell if he wants to, I just thought it might be relevant to the conversation as it was going at the time. Can't link to conversations on the other side of the fence though.

 

[USAFRet]

Nearby lightning.

A lot of people say: "Oh, I always turn off/unplug my systems when there is a lightning storm nearby"
Ha....

Last summer, sitting here messing with you people.

Rain rain rain...
BAM!
The whole house rebooted.
There was no 'Lightning within 5 miles'. No rumbles in the distance.

For every storm where there is lightning...there is a first lightning bolt somewhere.
For this one, my yard was it.

No warning.
BAM!

Casualties?
PC - ethernet port
Printer - ethernet port
(they were separated by 2x switches and a router, and those devices are fine)
PCs, printer, etc all on different, good quality UPS.

And this house is on Verizon fiber, so no direct "wire" from outside to come through coax or ethernet.

Denon AVR - 2x HDMI ports
PC and TV connected to those HDMI are fine.

Long ago, my ex had an Invisible Fence installed. Small box in the garage, apparently the wiring is still in the yard perimeter.
It was unplugged, had been unplugged for years.
It was connected to nothing.
The circuit board was fried, and the cover blown halfway across the garage.


Now for the Twilight Zone moment....
In the process of house renovation, I have a laser level.
Similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/HANMATEK-Measuring-Self-Leveling-Horizontal-Rotatable/dp/B07VRZS44Z

On a tripod, in the middle of a bedroom upstairs.
2x AA battery powered...no connection with anything.

I hadn't used it in several days, just sitting there in the middle of the room.
Going upstairs later, it was ON.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Going upstairs later, it was ON.

Yep, that IS the twilight zone stuff I was referring to, but again, it wasn't my story to tell. But that definitely makes you realize that there is a lot more going on with a direct or close strike than you could ever imagine and WHEN that happens, it's pretty likely that no amount of preparedness is actually going to make that much difference. If it can turn on a device in the middle of a room that isn't connected to ANYTHING, AT ALL, IN ANY WAY, then it can pretty much do whatever it wants and whatever you've done to try to mitigate it WILL likely help to mitigate it, but you are never going to fully protect yourself against it so the idea that you can is so totally laughable.

In point of fact, I have LITERALLY (Once upon a time) been standing at my front door, back when I was about 15, in California (Haven't lived there since about '94), looking out the screen door on the front of my house. It was an ACTUAL screen door, not one of the more modern "storm doors". Just a regular old metal framed screen door, and lightning directly hit it while I was standing about a foot away from it. Directly. I fracking thought I was dead, for sure. It blackened the entire door, completely. It blistered the paint on both sides of the door frame. It did NOT catch anything on fire, which was fantastically incredible. It did however destroy our tv in the living room which was about ten feet away, the microwave in the kitchen which was about thirty feet away and all of the light switches in the garage which was not even attached to the house but WAS on the same breaker.

This was back before most people, or almost anybody for that matter, had home computers and such. I mean, a few people did, but most did not. I didn't get my own PC until the next year. Nothing else was damaged, just the things I pointed out, and I mostly wasn't damaged although I might have pissed myself. LOL. Just crazy how lighting basically does whatever it wants, and damn your ideas of how it's supposed to behave.

I have also heard of more than one instance of somebody who unplugged their important electronics because of the close proximity of an electrical storm, and got a very close or direct strike, and still ended up with ruined equipment even though it wasn't plugged in at all. And honestly, I fully believe that sometimes it really actually happens that way.

 

[SamirD]

Yeah, that's why I pinged him with the @. It's his story to tell if he wants to, I just thought it might be relevant to the conversation as it was going at the time. Can't link to conversations on the other side of the fence though.

Oh, I thought it was a thread that was on the forum. 🤓

 

[SamirD]

Thank you for the great reminders of how lightning is one of those uncontrollable forces of nature! 😀