Build Advice Two PC upgrades - AMD Ryzen 9000 vs Intel Core Ultra 200 ?

[Aeacus]

Hi folks!



1st, the formalities:

Approximate Purchase Date: Q3 2025. (Before Win10 official support ends in Q4 2025.)

Budget Range: ~€1250 before shipping per 1 PC. Two PCs are to be upgraded, so ~€2500 in total for 2 PCs.

System Usage from Most to Least Important:
1st PC: Web browsing (plethora of tabs open), image editing, gaming (casual/moderate, does include simulation games).
2nd PC: Software coding, web browsing (plethora of tabs open), watching movies, gaming (casual, small indie titles).

Are you buying a monitor: No.

Parts to Upgrade: Both PCs: CPU, MoBo, RAM, CPU cooler (maybe M.2 SSD as well).
1st PC re-used PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-650 [SSR-650TD] (aka Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium). Bought Q4 2016.
2nd PC re-used PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-650 [SSR-650TR] (aka Seasonic PRIME Ultra 650 80+ Titanium). Bought Q4 2020.
Current specs of 1st PC: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/bd9J7P
Current specs of 2nd PC: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/RRvnTW
Other than parts to upgrade, everything else will be reused.

Do you need to buy OS: Yes. 2x Win11 Pro (retail) for both PCs. But this is not considered in above hardware budget. Ideally, would go with Win12 when it is released by that time, skipping the poor Win11 altogether.
Currently, both PCs are running Win7 OEM licenses, that i upgraded for free to Win10 OEM. Since i have OEM licenses, these can not be transferred over to the new builds.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: #1 https://www.galador.eu/category/187-components
alternative: https://arvutitark.ee/en/pc-components/1

Location: Estonia (within EU).

Parts Preferences:
CPU: Intel or AMD with iGPU.
MoBo: MSI. (Either X870E or Z890 chipset.)
RAM: Kingston. (Must be the one listed in MoBo memory QVL.)
CPU cooler: Noctua, Be Quiet!, Arctic, Thermalright. (Must be air cooler.)
M.2 SSD: Samsung.

Overclocking: No.

SLI or Crossfire: No.

Your Monitor Resolution:
1st PC: 1920x1080, 144 Hz.
2nd PC: 1920x1080, 60 Hz.

Additional Comments: Both PCs are intended to use ~10 years, or until OS on them becomes obsolete and we can't use the PCs further (like the current situation is).
Gaming wise, beefiest game would be Hogwarts: Legacy that we both would like to play. For my PC (PC #1), i can throw in Cyberpunk 2077 as well. The rest of the games are less impactful.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Win10 support ends. Now, both of our PCs are working fine and other than that, there's 0 reason to upgrade. But since 1st PC is Skylake architecture and 2nd PC is Haswell architecture, neither of our PCs support Win11 (or Win12).

Possible parts (with current pricing);

If Intel build:
CPU: €343.80 - Ultra 5 245K: https://www.galador.eu/1903-cpus/18...k-5-2ghz-fclga18w-lga1851-24m-cache-boxed-cpu
MoBo: €491 - MSI Z890 Carbon Wi-fi: https://www.galador.eu/1904-motherb...-s-pdif-2xrj45-2xaudio-port-mpgz890carbonwifi
RAM: €275.90 - Kingston Fury Beast RGB black 6400 MT/s, 2x 32GB, 2R: https://www.galador.ee/1610-lauaarv...gb-dimm-288-pin-6400-mhz-pc5-51200-unbuffered
Total: €1110.70 per 1 PC.
CPU cooler is undecided, but up to 170mm tall air cooler fits into either of the PCs.

If AMD build:
CPU: €356.20 - R7 9700X: https://www.galador.eu/1903-cpus/18...sam5-65-watts-gpu-radeon-box-100-100001404wof
MoBo: €520.40 - MSI X870E Carbon Wi-fi: https://www.galador.eu/1904-motherboards/18099011-msi-mpg-x870e-carbon-wifi-atx-am5-amd-x870e
RAM: €268.10 - Kingston Fury Beast RGB black 6400 MT/s, 2x 32GB, 2R: https://www.galador.ee/1610-lauaarv...t-rgb-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-kit-ddr5-6400-dimm-cl32
Total: €1144.70 per 1 PC.
CPU cooler is undecided, but up to 170mm tall air cooler fits into either of the PC's cases.

With formalities over, the core of the matter;​

While purchase date is about half a year away, i'd like to make my decision regarding what parts to get, well in advance. Hence the topic now, rather than later.

For accurate price and availability suggestions, the components must be from the Galador store (or Arvutitark). I'm not going to buy stuff from Amazon, since Galador offers free nationwide shipping with courier delivery and is also a local store (far easier RMA, when needed). We do have a wide selection here, so, i'm certain i can get everything locally.

CPU​

To start off, which CPU to go for. 🤔 Since CPU defines what MoBo and RAM to get.

I prefer Intel. Running few right now. Core Ultra 5 would be more than enough. Ultra 7 would be too much/expensive. No "Core i3" in the Ultra lineup as of yet. Even if there would be one, it would fare poorly to stand up for the next ~10 years. So, on Intel side, i'm looking at Core Ultra 5 245K.

Sadly, the Core Ultra is a big flop. A bit better than 14th gen Intel, but overall, nothing special. Since Ultra is such a let down, i'm now seriously considering going with AMD.
On AMD side, i'm looking at Ryzen 7 9700X, which would be U5 245K counterpart by price.
Initially, i did consider R5 9600X as well (€260.99), which is true counterpart of U5 245K, but given that i have budget for U5 245K, R7 9700X would be better counterpart to consider.

Pros of U5 245K;
* latest Intel gen CPU with LGA1851 socket
* CUDIMM
* More L2 cache (26MB vs 8MB)
* no hyperthreading (better for gaming)
* 15C cooler running on gaming loads, compared to R7 9700X, source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-5-245k/28.html
* lower power draw on gaming loads, compared to R7 9700X, source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-5-245k/25.html

Pros of R7 9700X:
* latest AMD gen GPU with AM5 socket
* CUDIMM (MoBo supports it)
* more L3 cache (32MB vs 24MB)
* lower TDP (65W vs 125W)
* hyperthreading (better for applications)
* far lower power draw on application loads, compared to U5 245K, source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-5-245k/25.html

Of course, Ryzen 10000-series (Zen 6) is expected to launch in Q3 2025 and depending how they fare value wise, would be something to consider. But Zen 6 isn't out and i'm currently considering what is available, vs what may become available.

MoBo​

Both of our current PCs are running MSI MoBos, so, new one would be MSI too. I'm happy with MSI and their features + looks.

MSI MoBo lineup: https://www.msi.com/Motherboards/Products

On Intel side, there are total of 15 choices in Z890 chipset. Some considerable options are: Carbon Wi-Fi and Gaming Plus Wi-Fi. While excluding white PCB/heatsink options since those doesn't fit the aesthetic taste, it leaves 7 options.

On AMD side, there are total of 4 choices in X870E chipset. Dismissing white PCB/heatsink ones, i'm left with only option: MPG X870E Carbon Wi-fi. Godlike is way too expensive and Tomahawk is a bit too barebones.

RAM​

I prefer to have 2DPC (2 DIMMs per channel) due to the lower latency. But sadly, due to the poor configuration between CPU and DDR5, having 2DPC means 4800 MT/s max. Anything faster and i'm stuck with 1DPC.

2R RAM (dual sided) is better than 1R RAM (single sided), so, i'm currently considering 6400 MT/s 2R RAM.
Now, CUDIMM looks promising and offers better performance, but that when RAM is 6400 MT/s or more.
E.g CUDIMM testing: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-5-245k/27.html

If to go with 6400+ MT/s RAM, then i have to get 1R RAM. Still thinking if CUDIMM is worth it or not. 🤔 Not to mention the cost of it.

A nice fact is that MSI X870E MoBos are only X870E MoBos (at least as of now), that support CUDIMM as well.

Capacity wise, current norm is 16GB. 32GB is advised when RAM usage is above average (or when playing AAA titles). When thinking about future use, i'm currently settled with 64GB since i can't easily add RAM, as i was able with DDR3/DDR4. With DDR5, i have to replace the RAM if more capacity is needed. So, it would be smart to get bigger capacity off the bat, rather than replacing RAM at later date.

Oh, Kingston DDR5 RAM height;
34.9mm - Beast
42.23mm - Beast RGB
39.2mm - Renegade
44mm - Renegade RGB

CPU cooler​

This is where i'm the least uncertain of. But that much is known that AIO doesn't happen.

There are several solid air cooler options from Noctua (chromax.black), Be Quiet!, Arctic and even Thermalright, making deciding difficult.
Since our PC cases support up to 170mm tall CPU coolers, selection is wide. I was thinking mid-sized or even big-boy air cooler, but haven't decided on which yet.

Issue with big-boy air coolers (while offering better cooling), is possible conflict with MoBo VRM heatsinks and RAM clearance issue as well. (Did list the RAM height above.)
Noctua has good compatibility chart to check clearances. So, with Noctua, i can check compatibility before purchase.

Ideally, i'd like to get CPU air cooler which fans doesn't have proprietary mount. Like Be Quiet! Dark Rock Elite or Arctic Freezer 50 has it. Since when fan should die, it would be very hard (if not impossible) to replace the fan. Because then, i have to get the same proprietary fan again. And availability for those in 3, 5, 7 etc years, is questionable. I would not risk it, since i may end up replacing entire CPU cooler when replacement fan is EOL and unavailable.

With CPU coolers, i have a wide selection of good ones;
Arctic Freezer 36 Black (ARGB)
Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE Black (ARGB)
Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 Evo Black
Thermaltake Astria 600 ARGB
Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5
Noctua NH-D15S chromax.black
Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black

ARGB is nice to have but not mandatory.

M.2 SSD (optional)​

Having dedicated OS drive off the bat (e.g Samsung 990 Pro 2TB) would make OS installation + personal data transfer easier. Else-ways, i need to clone current OSes to 870 Evo SSDs, format current OS drives (in 1st PC: 970 Evo Plus 2TB, in 2nd PC: 980 1TB), move M.2 drives to new MoBos and install OS there.

But this much is sure, that i won't get DRAM-less SSD. For an OS drive, DRAM-less SSD is a bad idea. So, Samsung 990 Evo Plus is out of question.
That leaves either Samsung 980 Pro or 990 Pro. At least 2TB (both cost ~€180 per drive). 4TB would be better but 990 Pro 4TB is expensive (~€330 per one drive).

Future upgrades, not part of this upgrade (GPU and PSU)​

Now, i know very well that GTX 1660 Ti and GTX 1060 3G aren't that beefy of a GPUs and would be the weak part in the latest systems. Still, at current moment, both are enough for our needs at 1080p. Moreover, i do plan to upgrade GPUs at later date and go with RTX 50-series, to balance the builds out.

Our PSUs are also getting a bit old now. One is 9 years old and another is 5 years old. But since both are Seasonic PRIME units with 12 year warranty and haven't been abused in the years + i'm confident in the Seasonic build quality (after all, i bought the best 650W units money could buy back then), i'm not in a hurry to replace them out yet. I'll probably go with new units when i go with new GPUs.


And that's it. Would like TH forums community help regarding the concerns i have with the components i talked about above.



--
Thanks in advance,
Aeacus

 

[helper800]

In my opinion you would be best served by the following parts:

CPU - 9700X (356.20) or 9800X3D (585.00)
CPU Cooler - Thermalright Assassin Spirit (58.80)
MOBO - Gigabyte X870 Eagle Wifi (255.20)
RAM - G Skill 2x16GB 6000 MT/s CL30 (127.10) alternative G.Skill 2x32 6000 MT/s CL32
M.2 Drive - Wester Digital SN850X 2TB (165.30)

Total: 962.60 or 1,191.4

Spending more than this on a the parts is purely for brand loyalty, which is up to you, but you could use that money better by getting a 9800X3D over a 9700X.

 

[Aeacus]

but you could use that money in getting a 9800X3D over a 9700X and be better off in the long run.

R7 9800X3D is a great CPU but it also costs accordingly. Thus, i didn't actually consider getting it when i was researching and thinking which CPU to go for. Heck, i have never considered getting top-end CPU for us , since we don't utilize our PCs in a such a degree where top-end CPU would be justified (e.g 3D render and the like).

This actually gives me a lot more to think about. 🤔
But thanks for pointing it out to me. 👍

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE Black (ARGB)
Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 Evo Black

Either of these. Not only are they relatively cheap, but also just happen to beat out much more expensive coolers like the Noctua. Thermalrights are quieter bar one or two others, and offer excellent cooling with very low noise levels. Can't go wrong with them. - Although I would be putting a nice neat AOI in

Gaming wise, beefiest game would be Hogwarts: Legacy

That not a slouch of a game. You have a plan there, but I would be looking at maybe RTX4060 or above down the line to get some more longevity.

no hyperthreading (better for gaming)

Not true necessarily. Maybe in some games. For the most part it's not something to consider.

If Intel build:

If playing the long game, I'd defo go with AMD. You're most likely gonna get 1 more CPU on the current socket from Intel. You will get far more options with the AMD base, with 60xx and 70xx coming to AM5 at a min.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Personally, I'd go with Ryzen. Core Ultra is a mess since release and I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe anything has changed in that regard despite Intel stating that they've fixed some of the issues via BIOS and driver updates.

 

[Aeacus]

Either of these. Not only are they relatively cheap, but also just happen to beat out much more expensive coolers like the Noctua. Thermalrights are quieter bar one or two others, and offer excellent cooling with very low noise levels. Can't go wrong with them.

Yes, Thermalright CPU coolers have solid value options and their CPU coolers perform equally good compared to Be Quiet! and Noctua, while costing only the fraction of e.g NH-D15.

I also like Arctic coolers quite a lot. I'm actually running one of the Arctic coolers right now, the Freezer i32, cooling my CPU in the 1st build. So, Arctic Freezer 36 would also be a good value option.

Since there are many good options, it's difficult to pick just one. 😀

You have a plan there, but I would be looking at maybe RTX4060 or above down the line to get some more longevity.

As i wrote at the end of the initial topic, i do plan upgrading GPUs at later date. RTX 5060 or RTX 5060 Ti when keeping current 650W units. Maybe even RTX 5070, depending on the funds available then. But with RTX 5070, new PSUs are a must since our 650W units aren't sufficient enough for 250W GPU. With RTX 5070, i'd be more comfortable using 750W unit or even 850W unit.

Not true necessarily. Maybe in some games. For the most part it's not something to consider.

Since i don't have hyperthreaded CPU right now, i can't test it out myself. But testing was done way back in 2016,
source: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...rks-core-i7-6700k-hyperthreading-test.219417/

And back then, HT actually wasn't beneficial for gaming. I don't know if things are changed since then or not.

You're most likely gonna get 1 more CPU on the current socket from Intel. You will get far more options with the AMD base, with 60xx and 70xx coming to AM5 at a min.

That's true. AMD likes to keep same socket around for several generations (AM4 for 4 generations), while Intel does it's tick-tock cycle, with two generations of CPUs per one socket. Only exception is LGA1700 that saw three generations of CPUs.

Though, only small portion of people actually change and upgrade their CPU to better one. Most keep their chip until whole platform is obsolete. Especially when the CPU is R5/Core i5 or better.
E.g back in the day when i bought the initial parts of my PC (PC #1), i had the option to upgrade to Kaby Lake CPUs. With the release of Intel 7th gen, best CPU i could've upgraded, is i7-7700K. But performance uplift would've been ~20% and the Core i7 itself costed quite a lot on it's release, whereby it just wasn't cost-effective for me to upgrade my CPU. That, and i7-7700K was one hot running chip for that era.

Core Ultra is a mess since release and I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe anything has changed in that regard despite Intel stating that they've fixed some of the issues via BIOS and driver updates.

Yes. I too have seen the firmware issues with Intel, starting with 13th gen and i don't think there would be any good fixes even for the Core Ultra 200 series. In that regard, yes, Ryzen is more stable and reliable.

It's sad that Intel has gone down the drain with their CPUs but when CPU doesn't perform well, while costing far more than AMD counterpart, it's no-brainer on which side (Intel or AMD) to pick.

Since the release of Core Ultra 200 series, i actually haven't suggested any Core Ultra 200 CPUs to anybody.

 

[geofelt]

First of all, don't panic about the w10 end of support.
Your pc will continue to run the way it always has.
You just won't get any new windows features.
Three months out is a bit long to make any decisions, but is fine for looking.
New products and prices will be coming.
For example, the non K ultra 225 and 235 have been announced.
They look particularly strong in single threaded work which is what games mostly need and is what gives a desktop quickness. They come with coolers.
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-ultra-5-225-arrow-lake-lga-1851-processor/p/N82E16819118577

Intel Core Ultra 5 235 Benchmark

You may not really need to buy a new windows.
You can run windows not activated for free.
The price is that you have none of the visual customizations available.

If you are familiar with Intel, you will be familiar with the infrastructure.
On these forums, the most common issues with ryzen seems to be ram issues.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

"Ultra" is a joke. Only thing Ultra is the name and empty promises from Intel

Windows is luck of the draw. I've activated OEM licenses when swapping the MB and CPU in the past. Sometimes automated works, sometimes a oldschool call is needed and others is does what it should and says to buy a retail key.

 

[geofelt]

"Ultra" is a joke. Only thing Ultra is the name and empty promises from Intel

Newegg users who have actually bought them speak well of them:
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-ultra-7-265k-arrow-lake-lga-1851-processor/p/N82E16819118506

 

[SyCoREAPER]

Newegg users who have actually bought them speak well of them:
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-ultra-7-265k-arrow-lake-lga-1851-processor/p/N82E16819118506

I'll trust the numbers. That's an astounding 70 albeit mostly positive reviews likely because upgrading from something older yiu don't have a reference point. Ryzen has proven itself this gen many times over.

My guess is for every one positive out of those 70 there are 100 positive to any given current-ish Ryzen

 

[QyInvoLing]

If you pick these CPUs for pure gaming, don't take ultra200s CPUs into consideration as non of them can compete with 9700x in almost every game.

The only reason picking ultra200s CPUs is the cheap price, but I doubt that if this only happens in my region. In my region, 265k is 1999$ while 245k is still 1699$ and 285k is 4399$, thus leading all non-265k ultra200s CPUs staying in the shop. 9700x is currently 1800$, 9600x is 1200$ and 9950x is 3899$.
If 265k is selling at the same price of 9700x , and you play games in pure 4K resolution which discarding the difference betwen CPU (as GPU is the bottleneck), picking 265K is a great deal, as you can get similar gaming performance but 50% extra multi-core performance for non-gaming tasks.

If you need an extremely expansive motherboard, picking 245k for the same price as 9700x is fine(just so-so). You may encounter low 1%low frame rate in games.

If none of these two situations matches your workload, pick 9700x for pure gaming.

I recommend Coolermaster hyper 612 apex:
- its fans are extremely easy to install, no need for tying a tight iron string. I felt extremely comfortable when installing it due to its magnetic rails and magnetic lid.
- its performance is almost as great as most powerful dual-tower coolers(like Noctua d15), and it's cheaper than Noctua d15.
- I like its appearance and I'll recommend it to everyone
- I have used it to press 9950x3d and 14600kf, it can definitely press 9950x, 265k and even 285k.

 

[Darkbreeze]

What are you actually coming FROM on this? That, makes kind of a big difference really, in terms of expectations. And also money.

 

[Aeacus]

First of all, don't panic about the w10 end of support.
Your pc will continue to run the way it always has.
You just won't get any new windows features.

For the most people, yes, there's little reason to panic because Win10 support ends. But for us in Estonia, there is a valid reason for panic.

Namely, our lives are intertwined with digital features and our ID cards use dedicated ID-software, that only works on current, supported OS. It does not work on old, unsupported OS (e.g Win7).
Further reading (in English): https://www.id.ee/en/article/operating-systems-supported-by-id-software/

And that is a BIG deal for us, if we can not use our ID cards electronically via our PCs. For bare minimum, bank transfers and payment of bills can not be done. Also, we can not log into official government sites that are needed for our daily lives (e.g health care for booking an appointment to the doctor or DMV to manage our vehicles). On top of that, we often work in home office and without being able to identify ourselves via our ID cards electronically, we can't even do our jobs. So, income also goes goodbye.

So, we do not have an option.

For example, the non K ultra 225 and 235 have been announced.
They look particularly strong in single threaded work which is what games mostly need and is what gives a desktop quickness. They come with coolers.

Core Ultra 5 235 vs R5 9600X comparison: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/6526vs6199/Intel-Ultra-5-235-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-9600X

Based on that, R5 9600X has better single core performance than U5 235.
And price wise, R5 9600X costs me €261.90: https://www.galador.eu/1903-cpus/17790103-amd-ryzen-5-9600x-processor-3-9-ghz-38-mb-l2-l3-box
While U5 235 costs me €302.19: https://www.galador.eu/1903-cpus/19490727-intel-s1851-core-ultra-5-235-box

It does not make sense to pay ~€40 more for a worse single-threaded performance.
And Intel's stock CPU cooler isn't that great either.
In my 2nd build, i have Intel stock CPU cooler cooling i5-4590 and that cooler struggles to cool that CPU. So, no, i won't be getting stock coolers anymore.

You may not really need to buy a new windows.
You can run windows not activated for free.
The price is that you have none of the visual customizations available.

That i do know. However, it would be annoying for us to use our PCs when Windows constantly reminds us to activate the Win. And personalization options would also be needed. Since i'm planning to slap Win7 GUI onto my Win11 (or Win12), if possible. E.g we currently have Win7 GUI slapped to our Win10, since we don't like how Win10 looks like. (Back in the day when i was using WinXP, i had Win98 GUI on it.)

On these forums, the most common issues with ryzen seems to be ram issues.

Yes, RAM issues are known for Ryzen, but these are mainly when folks try to get EXPO running on DDR4/DDR5. With JEDEC speeds, DDR4/DDR5 works fine.

For DDR5, i'm eyeing 6000/6400 MT/s. Even if it doesn't work, highest JEDEC would be 5600 MT/s, which coming from 6000/6400, isn't such a big drop. (Diff could even be negligible.)

But Intel CPUs also have their issues. 13th and 14th gen had firmware issues, where CPU could even die. While Core Ultra 200 is underperforming and Intel is looking to fix it.

So, risk wise, there's far more risk with latest Intel CPUs than with Ryzen CPUs. With Intel, and as it was seen with 13th and 14th gen, i'll never know when another issue is discovered that can outright kill my CPU. But with Ryzen, the only issue would be not being able to run EXPO, loosing me 400-1000 MT/s worth of speeds.

Newegg users who have actually bought them speak well of them:
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-ultra-7-265k-arrow-lake-lga-1851-processor/p/N82E16819118506

Sorry, i don't look customer feedback when i buy my hardware, since that can't be trusted.
E.g Apevia Galaxy 650W PSU has nice 4.4 rating on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Apevia-ATX-GX650W-Galaxy-Certified-Semi-Modular/dp/B094278HKG
Would you buy that PSU based on the good rating? If not, then why not?

Instead, i read reputable unbiased reviews to make my decision.
And reviews have shown that Core Ultra 200 doesn't improve much over 14th gen. Most improvements are to do with power consumption and thermals, but we are talking desktop PCs here, where power consumption is not an issue. Also, since CPU coolers can be freely choosed, thermals aren't an issue either. With this, the two strong points Core Ultra 200 has, are meaningless. On top of that, Core Ultra 200 CPUs cost more than their AMD counterparts. And on some instances, even perform worse, performance wise, than Ryzen counterpart.

While i do like to Intel CPUs (especially older generation ones), my brand loyalty isn't that strong that i'm willing to pay more for a worse product.

 

[Aeacus]

The only reason picking ultra200s CPUs is the cheap price

If 265k is selling at the same price of 9700x

Everywhere i've looked at, Core Ultra 200 costs more than their Ryzen 9000 counterparts.

U7 265K costs me €387.20
R7 9700X costs me €373.91

and you play games in pure 4K resolution

I have a feeling that you didn't read the formalities i wrote above. We do not have 4K monitors, but instead 1080p ones.

If none of these two situations matches your workload, pick 9700x for pure gaming.

Our PC's workload is also written in the formalities above.

If you need an extremely expansive motherboard

I'm not looking towards Godlike, ACE or Unify-X Z890/X870E MoBos from MSI. Those are the true extremely expensive MoBos. E.g:
MSI X870E Godlike - €1583.40
MSI Z890 Godlike - €1388.10
MSI Z890 Unify-X - €805.90
MSI Z890 ACE - €722.20

Instead, the MoBos i'm looking at, are in the middle of the pack;
MSI X870E Carbon Wi-Fi - €520.50
MSI Z890 Carbon Wi-Fi - €493.80
MSI X870E Tomahawk Wi-Fi - €374.20
MSI Z890 Gaming Plus Wi-Fi - €348.10

While even the cheapest options are costing quite a bit:
MSI X870 Gaming Plus Wi-Fi - €281.00 (the cheapest MSI option for AM5)
MSI Pro Z890-S Wi-Fi - €223.50 (the cheapest MSI option for LGA1851)

AsRock X870 Pro RS - €235.80 (the cheapest overall option for AM5)
Biostar Z890AX-E Pro - €185 (the cheapest overall option for LGA1851)

Latest MoBos are expensive, there's no way over it. Average MoBo today can cost more than the CPU you put into it.

I recommend Coolermaster hyper 612 apex:
- its fans are extremely easy to install, no need for tying a tight iron string. I felt extremely comfortable when installing it due to its magnetic rails and magnetic lid.

I looked it up and it has proprietary fan mount. Something that i talked about in my initial post and when i can help it - will not get.

- its performance is almost as great as most powerful dual-tower coolers(like Noctua d15), and it's cheaper than Noctua d15.

It may be cheaper for you, but in my area, there's 0 availability for it. So, can't buy it even if i wanted to.

- I like its appearance and I'll recommend it to everyone

I, for one, do not like it's appearance at all. It looks like a dull and tasteless box in the middle of the MoBo.

Look the current pics of our PCs, either from the pcpp links i gave above or builds.gg links from my signature and tell me, is our taste with our PCs minimalistic and simple, where such CPU cooler would please us aesthetically? 🤔

 

[QyInvoLing]

Everywhere i've looked at, Core Ultra 200 costs more than their Ryzen 9000 counterparts.

U7 265K costs me €387.20
R7 9700X costs me €373.91


I have a feeling that you didn't read the formalities i wrote above. We do not have 4K monitors, but instead 1080p ones.


Our PC's workload is also written in the formalities above.


I'm not looking towards Godlike, ACE or Unify-X Z890/X870E MoBos from MSI. Those are the true extremely expensive MoBos. E.g:
MSI X870E Godlike - €1583.40
MSI Z890 Godlike - €1388.10
MSI Z890 Unify-X - €805.90
MSI Z890 ACE - €722.20

Instead, the MoBos i'm looking at, are in the middle of the pack;
MSI X870E Carbon Wi-Fi - €520.50
MSI Z890 Carbon Wi-Fi - €493.80
MSI X870E Tomahawk Wi-Fi - €374.20
MSI Z890 Gaming Plus Wi-Fi - €348.10

While even the cheapest options are costing quite a bit:
MSI X870 Gaming Plus Wi-Fi - €281.00 (the cheapest MSI option for AM5)
MSI Pro Z890-S Wi-Fi - €223.50 (the cheapest MSI option for LGA1851)

AsRock X870 Pro RS - €235.80 (the cheapest overall option for AM5)
Biostar Z890AX-E Pro - €185 (the cheapest overall option for LGA1851)

Latest MoBos are expensive, there's no way over it. Average MoBo today can cost more than the CPU you put into it.


I looked it up and it has proprietary fan mount. Something that i talked about in my initial post and when i can help it - will not get.


It may be cheaper for you, but in my area, there's 0 availability for it. So, can't buy it even if i wanted to.


I, for one, do not like it's appearance at all. It looks like a dull and tasteless box in the middle of the MoBo.

Look the current pics of our PCs, either from the pcpp links i gave above or builds.gg links from my signature and tell me, is our taste with our PCs minimalistic and simple, where such CPU cooler would please us aesthetically? 🤔

Ok, I read the main post carefully again, then I'll recommend 9700x for 1080p gaming.
You mentioned that all your mobo choices are x870e&z890 chipset, but I haven't seen a "USB4" or "thunderbolt5" string in the post. If you don't use USB4, x870e boards aren't better than x670e, would you like to pick some x670e boards? I'll recommend x670e carbon. x670e gaming plus wifi is also a fine board, but I guess that it may be a little barebone to you.

I, for one, do not like it's appearance at all. It looks like a dull and tasteless box in the middle of the MoBo.

Look the current pics of our PCs, either from the pcpp links i gave above or builds.gg links from my signature and tell me, is our taste with our PCs minimalistic and simple, where such CPU cooler would please us aesthetically? 🤔

After seeing the images I acknowledged your favourite building style and it's fine to me

 

[Aeacus]

You mentioned that all your mobo choices are x870e&z890 chipset, but I haven't seen a "USB4" or "thunderbolt5" string in the post. If you don't use USB4, x870e boards aren't better than x670e, would you like to pick some x670e boards? I'll recommend x670e carbon. x670e gaming plus wifi is also a fine board, but I guess that it may be a little barebone to you.

While true, that i haven't talked about USB4 or thunderbolt, reason why i'm looking for 800-series MoBos (both Intel and AMD), rather than 600-series MoBos (AMD) or 700-series MoBos (Intel) is due to the age.

X670E was released 27.Sept.22.
X870/E was released 30.Sept.24.

That's 2 year difference. Whereby if i were to buy X670E MoBo now, it could've very well been sitting on the shelf 2 years longer than X870/E MoBo. And since i do not plan to replace the MoBo anytime soon (never actually), component lifespan is important for us.

MoBos have caps on them, that will age regardless if MoBo is in use or not. And if cap blows on MoBo (has happened), MoBo is bricked.

In the same sense, why i don't look Intel 12th, 13th and 14th gen, which are actually better than Core Ultra 200 series. Again, there's some age to them that would cut into the overall component lifespan.

After seeing the images I acknowledged your favourite building style and it's fine to me

👍

 

[QyInvoLing]

While true, that i haven't talked about USB4 or thunderbolt, reason why i'm looking for 800-series MoBos (both Intel and AMD), rather than 600-series MoBos (AMD) or 700-series MoBos (Intel) is due to the age.

X670E was released 27.Sept.22.
X870/E was released 30.Sept.24.

That's 2 year difference. Whereby if i were to buy X670E MoBo now, it could've very well been sitting on the shelf 2 years longer than X870/E MoBo. And since i do not plan to replace the MoBo anytime soon (never actually), component lifespan is important for us.

MoBos have caps on them, that will age regardless if MoBo is in use or not. And if cap blows on MoBo (has happened), MoBo is bricked.

In the same sense, why i don't look Intel 12th, 13th and 14th gen, which are actually better than Core Ultra 200 series. Again, there's some age to them that would cut into the overall component lifespan.


👍

Thanks, I've learned a lot!

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Just playing devils advocate here, but have you thought about installing WIn 11 with the TPM/Secure Boot bypass?

 

[Aeacus]

but have you thought about installing WIn 11 with the TPM/Secure Boot bypass?

I have thought about it but there's no telling if the installation even works. And if it, somehow, does, what other problems there may be down the line. That, and the fact that our licenses are OEM and not retail ones, complicate things even further.
Heck, i even struggled greatly to upgrade OS to Win10 on my Skylake build (my topic about it if interested). So, it can be even worse 2nd time around (Win10 to Win11).

Win11 aside, our hardware also has some years on it and now would be a good time for an upgrade as well.
E.g;
1st PC (Skylake build) core components were bought Q3 '16.
2nd PC (Haswell build) core components were bought Q2 '15.
That's 9 years and 10 years old as of now.
And both builds have been in daily use since the purchase (except for some days during our vacations).

While CPU is durable, lasting easy 10 years or even 20 years, i'm more worried about MoBos. Since if i keep both builds running for long, MoBo would most likely be the 1st one to give out (as i said above, caps on MoBo do age in time). RAM i can easily replace (actually did buy new RAM for Haswell build in Q1'19). And GPUs are also easily replaced (both builds have seen GPU upgrade already).

Then there's also the fact that there are some games out there where neither of our builds are compatible to run. Sure, i could get RTX 5060 into both builds, but CPUs will hinder anything GPU could do. If the game even launches, that is.
A nice example would be The Talos Principle 2, that we both like. Before that game, Haswell build had GTX 760 in it, whereby game absolutely refused to launch due to the ancient GPU. Since i still kept my GTX 1060 3GB around, after i upgraded GPU in Skylake build to GTX 1660 Ti, i popped GTX 1060 3GB into Haswell build and now, was able to launch the game.
And now, The Talos Principle 3 is in the works (demo is already out). Hogwarts: Legacy would also be something we like to play, but neither of our builds are capable launching it. (Skylake build actually can launch it but that with 720p/30 FPS with low settings).

So, yeah. Two solid reasons why to upgrade: Win10 ends, our core hardware is 9-10 years old.
3rd reason: I'd like to have both of our builds equal in performance. Currently, mine is better but that makes me feel bad.

 

[stonecarver]

There are reasons to install Windows 11 on older systems and than there are reasons like yours to just move forward.

I look forward to when you get all your new toys up and running we must have upgraded pictures as well.