U.S. DoJ Increases Hostility Towards Apple In Latest Court Filing

[Lucian Armasu]

The U.S. Department of Justice filed another motion to compel Apple to unlock the iPhone in the San Bernardino case, in which it showed an increased level of hostility towards the company.

U.S. DoJ Increases Hostility Towards Apple In Latest Court Filing : Read more

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I don't see why the government doesn't go next door to that person's phone provider. They have records of every bit of data of communication that person made.

The sadder part is that some hacker in his basement could probably get into this phone but the FBI can't.

 

[Gam3r01]

"and it may even demand Apple release its iOS source code as well as its cryptographic signatures for the OS"
So they cant convince (and/or force) apple to open one phone but threatening them with the forcible compromise all of their devices... yeah.... Theyll do that for you.

 

[heliomphalodon]

I now believe that Apple will lose in this court. The judge will be very reluctant to vacate her own order. Apple will appeal, but I fear they will fail. The DOJ's arguments seem to me to be persuasive in terms of current US law.
What I hope Apple does now is capitulate on this battle, while going all-out to win the greater war. Say, "OK, fine. Now, watch this." and release a new version of iOS that removes all back doors, even Apple's own back door that allows them to install a new version of iOS on an iPhone without the customer's consent.

 

[Epsilon_0EVP]

I don't see why the government doesn't go next door to that person's phone provider. They have records of every bit of data of communication that person made.

The sadder part is that some hacker in his basement could probably get into this phone but the FBI can't.

It's not that the FBI can't do it; they very clearly explain that in the article. It's that the FBI wants to have a backdoor to avoid having to do it themselves.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Apple could try suing the government. The government tries to break the law whenever possible, and it's the people's job to point this out. They could easily try suing them. What's the government going to do if Apple doesn't open the phone? Shoot the workers? What if the workers claim they don't have the programming experience to do so? Even though it's a lie, technically it could work. My question is what law states the government has a right to do this.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I don't see why the government doesn't go next door to that person's phone provider. They have records of every bit of data of communication that person made.

The sadder part is that some hacker in his basement could probably get into this phone but the FBI can't.

It's not that the FBI can't do it; they very clearly explain that in the article. It's that the FBI wants to have a backdoor to avoid having to do it themselves.

No, if they could they would.

 

[heliomphalodon]

Apple could try suing the government. The government tries to break the law whenever possible, and it's the people's job to point this out. They could easily try suing them. What's the government going to do if Apple doesn't open the phone? Shoot the workers? What if the workers claim they don't have the programming experience to do so? Even though it's a lie, technically it could work. My question is what law states the government has a right to do this.

It's actually the All Writs Act that (allegedly) gives the government the right to coerce Apple in this way.
It's not inconceivable that Tim Cook could be jailed for contempt of court if Apple continues to refuse to comply after all legal avenues have been exhausted.

 

[DeadlyDays]

this brief on the issue I like, has most of the points in previous articles comments. This is all about the precedent it would set, as they could break into it and it is very unlikely there is anything on it as it wasn't his personal phone and he went through the effort to destroy his personal phone but not this one

 

[Gam3r01]

this brief on the issue I like, has most of the points in previous articles comments. This is all about the precedent it would set, as they could break into it and it is very unlikely there is anything on it as it wasn't his personal phone and he went through the effort to destroy his personal phone but not this one

I agree, does anyone honestly think this is just about the single phone anymore?

 

[heliomphalodon]

this brief on the issue I like, has most of the points in previous articles comments. This is all about the precedent it would set, as they could break into it and it is very unlikely there is anything on it as it wasn't his personal phone and he went through the effort to destroy his personal phone but not this one

I agree, does anyone honestly think this is just about the single phone anymore?

It was never about just this one phone. Claims to the contrary were/are just the DOJ trying to blow smoke up our asses.

 

[hdmark]

so if apple does lose... what exactly happens? they put the backdoor in , issue an apology to all customers? can they give them access to other encryption software to negate the backdoor?
Also, will this actually hurt apple? I know most common users don't even know what encryption is, but Im sure the companies that buy millions of iphones for their employees do.
Just in general wondering the ramifications of this

 

[IceMyth]

What if apple encryption is built in away that by single password you can unlock every apple device then an idiot in in US department leaked that code or a hacker stole it somehow. Do you imagine how many person his/her privacy will be endangered. Can the US government compensate every single person who has apple device inside and outside USA?

The moment this happens I will start considering to get an old phone that does not connect to internet (lol maybe Nokia 6610) and would support non-US phone company.

 

[hellwig]

How could this set a bad precedent globally? It's not like the US seeks to spy on the phones of foreign nations? It's not like they've every spied on the phones of global leaders like Angela Merkel. It's not like they actively sabotage hardware shipped to overseas companies, illegally intercepting those devices during shipment to fullfil their ulterior motives. It's not like they have dedicated pipelines in the facilities of our nation's monopolistic telecommunications companies, siphoning off untold amounts of data to routinely be used in secretive fishing expeditions.

Thank god our laws would turn any person who reveals such actions into a pariah, to be shunned by all law-abiding citizens. Yes, thank goodness our government thinks to keep us in the dark, when exposure to the truth would be so damaging.... to our opinion of them.

Luckily, if Trump gets elected, all thoughts of the US being a "Free" country will go out the window. We'll learn to love our new governmental overlords.

 

[InvalidError]

What if apple encryption is built in away that by single password you can unlock every apple device then an idiot in in US department leaked that code or a hacker stole it somehow.

The whole point of Secure Enclave in newer Apple devices is to make all encryption on those devices unique to each device and enshrine many security features in hardware, beyond OS, firmware updates and even Apple's own reach.

This is going to get interesting if the FBI/DoJ run into a case where they want a phone with full Secure Enclave implementation unlocked. Based on the Secure Enclave documentation, it is allegedly physically impossible for Apple to do so.

 

[clonazepam]

There are some interesting similarities with the GM OnStar / FBI case. GM eventually won that showing that listening in on the car's microphone disrupted the user's ability to call emergency services if needed. I don't think the FBI wanted the responsibility of contacting 911 either in the event they overheard something that warranted it.

It doesn't set any precedent useful in this case, but its interesting nonetheless. I believe Apple's also suggested if they lose here, the FBI may take it those extra steps by being able to open a line or activate the camera, etc. Who knows?

I bet all the loyal Apple customers and every other person who deeply cares about their security could really choke up Washington D.C. had they the desire to go there and stand around.

Unfortunately, the middle class is disappearing, people are beholden to life-long debt from education, mortgages, saving for the next generation, etc. It's all a little too much to risk by stirring the pot, or taking off to actually organize and show some support for what you believe in.

Give people a few social media outlets, facebook, twitter, tumblr, imgr, reddit... let 'em get their frustrations out, get a few pats on the back (or fake internet points) for their strong words, and then back to business as usual.

 

[Cory_10]

Should the FBI release the San Bernardino surveillance video??
Surveillance Cameras are scattered across the entire property.
Apple wants to verify the official story.

 

[mrmez]

I don't see why the government doesn't go next door to that person's phone provider. They have records of every bit of data of communication that person made.

The sadder part is that some hacker in his basement could probably get into this phone but the FBI can't.

They already DO have access to every bit of the software. Unfortunately it's all encrypted, so they can't do anything with it.
Duh.

And, no, surprisingly they CAN'T decrypt it. The lockouts etc are good enough (at the moment), that nobody has figured out a way to bypass them.
The FBI could intercept the data over a wifi backup, but apparently they buggered this up themselves by changing a password so it no longer automatically connects to the known wifi network.

America is a cool place, and the people are pretty awesome, but for a long time the rest of the world is just like.. "fk your guy's government. Fk them right in the ear"
They're the biggest bunch of dicks on the planet.

 

[IceMyth]

What if apple encryption is built in away that by single password you can unlock every apple device then an idiot in in US department leaked that code or a hacker stole it somehow.

The whole point of Secure Enclave in newer Apple devices is to make all encryption on those devices unique to each device and enshrine many security features in hardware, beyond OS, firmware updates and even Apple's own reach.

This is going to get interesting if the FBI/DoJ run into a case where they want a phone with full Secure Enclave implementation unlocked. Based on the Secure Enclave documentation, it is allegedly physically impossible for Apple to do so.

Maybe it is not right now, but the moment they comply with the DoJ then it will be single password/algorithm/software to unlock every single apple device which will lead to the nightmare or privacy issues.

 

[InvalidError]

Maybe it is not right now, but the moment they comply with the DoJ then it will be single password/algorithm/software to unlock every single apple device which will lead to the nightmare or privacy issues.

Even a supreme court ruling cannot undo hardware and software that is already out there. The most the DoJ could do is ban the implementation of Secure Enclave type technology in future devices. For devices that are already out there, all people need to do is disable OS updates to prevent their devices from downloading an OS update that might decrypt them the next time they are unlocked.

 

[whiteruski]

I would definitely protest on the behalf of Apple if Apple was forced to unlock iPhones because of a court order. I am not an Apple fan but Apple is in the right here.

 

[semitope]

Kinda laughed when I read the DOJ is getting desperate. It should be remembered that these government organizations are here to protect citizens. They aren't selling information for ad revenues, at least that is not their function.

So when they say the DOJ is getting desperate, they are saying the DOJ is getting desperate to be better able to defend US citizens.

Its Apple vs American lives.

Apple and google don't need your pin etc. to get the information they want about you. The phone companies don't either. Even criminals are better off exploiting you while you use the phone rather than stealing it from you to hack.

Its just the government that has a criminals phone in hand that needs to hack it. Granted people could get their phones stolen and hacked through this if it became public, but there are protections for stolen phones and usually phones get stolen to be sold or used, not hacked with a supercomputer.

 

[InvalidError]

Its Apple vs American lives.

Getting phones from perpetrators after those lives have already been lost and the perps have died is not going to save many further lives, especially after the FBI has concluded that the perps acted independently.

Private information leaking out can wreck people's lives too.

 

[IceMyth]

Maybe it is not right now, but the moment they comply with the DoJ then it will be single password/algorithm/software to unlock every single apple device which will lead to the nightmare or privacy issues.

Even a supreme court ruling cannot undo hardware and software that is already out there. The most the DoJ could do is ban the implementation of Secure Enclave type technology in future devices. For devices that are already out there, all people need to do is disable OS updates to prevent their devices from downloading an OS update that might decrypt them the next time they are unlocked.

You cant disable that. few days ago I had a problem where my MacBook Pro couldnt connect to the internet though the Ethernet cable I looked that up and I found an update by Apple caused that issue which I didnt install and it wasnt through the app store too but found it installed.

Its Apple vs American lives.

Getting phones from perpetrators after those lives have already been lost and the perps have died is not going to save many further lives, especially after the FBI has concluded that the perps acted independently.

Private information leaking out can wreck people's lives too.

Exactly, as an example for that a teacher in a school left the school because one of the students leaked a picture for her naked. Imagine this happens with apple devices what catastrophic this thing can lead to? How many back mailing can happen.

Beside that endanger all people privacy around the world for something they failed to provide kinda stupid lol.

 

[agentxjp]

What a disgrace to freedom, privacy, and democracy. Don't give in, Apple.

And Trump the Clown actually wants to boycott Apple over this like the good fascist he is.