Ubuntu 9.10: The Karmic Koala Benchmarked And Reviewed

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adamovera

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[citation][nom]sublifer[/nom]I assume you had a typo? 7zip compressed to 31.7MB?[/citation]
I meant actual compression size, not total file size. The file was originally 334.6MB. Zip got it down to 332.6MB, a compression of only 2MB. 7zip got it down to 313.7MB, a compression of 20.9 MB. See what I meant by 10x the compression? Sry bout that, I was told it was unclear b4 it published and decided to ignore the advice, totally my bad call. I'll see about cleaning it up.
 

dedhorse

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Yeah, that compression thing confused me too. 332.6 is not 10x 313.7. You should probably add 2MB vs. 20.9MB to make the 10x comparison clearer.
 

sublifer

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[citation][nom]dedhorse[/nom]Yeah, that compression thing confused me too. 332.6 is not 10x 313.7. You should probably add 2MB vs. 20.9MB to make the 10x comparison clearer.[/citation]
I think % compression would be a better measure
332.6/334.6 x 100
313.7/334.6 x 100
but yes, I understand what you meant now.
 

False_Dmitry_II

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It didn't confuse me, but I had to go back and see what the full size was which was toward the top of the page to then go back to the bottom in order to look at the two after numbers to see the difference.

I am running 9.10 as a dual boot on my laptop (two different hard drives, so technically not, grub2 detected my vista partition instantly though and I didn't have to add it myself). It started off the first week with lots of kernel panics but past that it ran fine. (blinking caps lock key, all else unresponsive) Within that week the number of times it happened dropped very quickly and eventually seemed to only happen when I had left it running and went elsewhere. After I came back I would find it that way occasionally. Reading this article now, I realize that it's stopped happening altogether for several weeks now, and I'm on the x64 version. I guess they fixed whatever the problem was.

I also notice an improvement in the wireless handling, my router is set to not broadcast its SSID and on Jaunty, that meant I had to pick it from the list of hidden networks every time. Now it seems to connect automatically, though it seems like it takes forever from bootup to it starting to connect.
 

adamovera

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First off, let me thank everyone for the feedback and apologize for not jumping in sooner (xmas errands). I'll attempt to address everyone who had an issue with my methods or my conclusions in one large post in order to catch up in the discussion. But let me start by explaining that I could have released this review a week out from launch. But I did not; I decided to give the OS the benefit of the doubt and wrapped it up one month out instead. I ran the benches three weeks out, but the experiences I had in week one still count because they still happened.

To you guys/gals questioning the four days figure: This includes backing up all of my data (files, bookmarks, passwords, feeds, chat logs, VMs, compiling a list of apps, and plugins, etc). In other words, a FULL transferable backup - the kind of thing that people do when completely switching OSes. Also keep in mind that this was on two systems. Another situation that led to the extended period of time was the time needed to download the ISOs due to their servers being overloaded by downloaders. I also downloaded several ISOs just to be sure that my issues weren't caused by bad ISO files, as well as burned several copies to rule out bad discs. This is were the four day figure comes from.

To the guy who said that my crashes were actually the screensaver kicking in: C'mon man, give me SOME credit. LOL :)

To the guy who said that the kernel error was due to memory failure: That is a good, solid, and valid possibility for such an error. So I went ahead and ran memtest once more this morning just to be sure nothing had happened in-between installs. It again came back with no errors.

For those saying that my review of Ubuntu 9.10 will hurt Ubuntu adoption: Ubuntu 9.10 will hurt Ubuntu adoption. I wanted that to be crystal clear in my conclusion. Also, I'm a tech reviewer, not Canonical PR. Though I believe in FOSS as a necessary check and balance to proprietary monopolies, I'm not in anyone's pocket. In fact, when it comes to OSes, I'm the ultimate turncoat. The fact that Ubuntu got a review at a mainstream HARDWARE site shows that they've made it into the big leagues. We reviewed Ubuntu, and not Gentoo, and not Slax, and not Puppy. Why not? Because noone cares about them. The spotlight is on Ubuntu, not every Linux distro. Criticism comes with being in the limelight. Shuttleworth and co. are all big boys, I'm sure they can take it.

To the guys/gals who say that Xubuntu works just fine: IDK, but I'll take your word for it. I haven't had issues with Kubuntu either, TBH I just might switch to Kubuntu 9.10 AMD64 til 10.04 LTS comes out. The Ubuntu Netbook Edition seems to be fine as well. This review was just for the flagship branch - Ubuntu.

To those who say that I'm unlucky due to my hardware configuration: Granted- I'm terribly unlucky ;) But I can't test luck. Waht I can tell you is that 7.10, 8.04 LTS, and 9.04 all worked flawlessly on the same systems. Even my beef with 8.10 (twiggy graphical glitches and generally slower performance than 8.04) are seriously minor in comparison to my experience with 9.10. Not to mention the lack of issues with Kubuntu 9.10, Mandriva 2010, and even... yes, Windows 7 RC (gasp). If I were to throw out any comparable products, then any product review would be positive - unless of course it explodes and causes severe burns to the hands and face :eek:

To those saying that it's not Ubuntu's fault, that it's the kernel, or the GUI, or the hardware drivers: A distribution is the sum of it's parts. The distribution maintainer is responsible for making it all work together. I compared Canonical's final 'product' to the previous version of their final 'product'. If there was an issue with a part of Ubuntu 9.10, which wasn't an issue with a previous version, they didn't have to include it. Think of it this way: If you had to roll back the kernel in Windows, would we EVER hear the end of it?

To anyone saying that regressions go with the territory: Malware goes with the territory for Windows. Should I neglect to slam MS (or praise Linux) because all that bad stuff 'goes with the territory' in Windows? An absurd pricetag comes with Apple hardware which you need to run OS X (legally). Should I not take cost into account when looking at their products? All OSes have their pros and cons. If you want a double standard for Linux, then I'm afraid that the current estimated market share of 1% may be the peak - Late nineties all over again.

To prathameshdotinfo: First, see all of the above. Second, I don't review live CDs and the installed OS does not have GParted. If you try to run it from the terminal, this is what you'll get:
The program 'gparted' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
sudo apt-get install gparted
gparted: command not found
I verified that GParted IS on the live CD, and that's pretty telling. Why not Palimpsest by itself? When installed, why not use GParted instead? Sounds like someone had big reservations about Palimpsest's capabilities to prep a system for installation, but they went ahead with it anyway. Again, fueling my point that they played too fast and loose with new features on this release. Third, I did not have issues with ext4 in Karmic, though I did in Jaunty. But why is it slower? Also, what 'technical information' would you like to see? In the introduction we asked for ways to further flesh out our cross-platform benchmarks.

Finally, I'd like to point out that for every comment that disagrees with my review, there is another that completely agrees. This is a very bad ratio for success. I'm honestly glad that I was in the 'unlucky' crowd, I think that if I had been 'lucky' and published a positive review when half of you are reporting a bad experience it would have reflected much worse on me, Tom's Hardware, and Ubuntu. Even if you had a great experience many, many others had a nightmare. I can understand this from most other distros, but don't expect it from Ubuntu - not anymore. By re-enforcing that Ubuntu 9.04 "Jaunty Jackalope" is STILL the Tom's Hardware pick of ALL 'alternative' operating systems, hopefully many users will give that release a spin and walk away with a better perception of the entire OS. I'm harder on Ubuntu than I would be to a distro like Gentoo or even Debian because of how far it has already come. But let's not kid ourselves by ignoring how much further it still has to go. Simply being more secure than XP and outperforming Vista isn't going to cut it anymore. It would have a few months ago, but not anymore. Take it or leave it, Windows 7 is gonna be a hit (for now). Whether you want to admit it or not, Redmond flipped the script. It's time for any aspiring open source OS to bring their A game, and I KNOW that Canonical can do better than this - much, much better.
 
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This review is completely wrong. 9.10 is by far the best release so far. It is absolutely flawless in every conceivable way. I'm willing to bet this reviewer is being payed by Novell or RHC.
 
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Ubuntu 9.10 Works Awesome for me! , 64bit and Netbook "Remix"! I Do wish they didn't remove the ability to switch back to the normal Desktop in this release (instead of being stuck with only Netbook UI) ! Other then that I love it! Screw Mint! be cool use Ubuntu!
 

Niva

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Before upgrading to any version of linux it is a good idea to run the live-cd environment. I think with your big machines you would've encountered the errors which made the machines unstable after a few minutes of usage in the live environment. Only if everything works flawlessly in the livecd should you consider upgrading the installed OS.

I also had gripes against Karmic, I didn't like the Empathy switch, I didn't like how the blocked out the su command. The Grub 2 absolutely must have a graphical interface for such a major overhaul, it took me a long time to reconfigure grub to the way I want it to work and I've been using linux for years now.

Your review of Ubuntu One is very welcome for me, I've not tried using it but I'm considering it now.

That being said 9.10 is a minor release just prior to the next LTS release. It should be viewed as experimental even though they had a schedule saying this thing is "ready for prime time" when in fact it was not. All the major changes in 9.10 are in preparation for the next LTS release so if you think about it in such terms it makes sense.

Lastly, I also had a very positive experience with XUbuntu, just want to throw that out there, it runs great on my old machine which the new Gnome brings to a crawl.
 
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I'm surprised by this review. With any major software upgrade, there are cases in which the upgrade went disastrously -- in this case, it was so for the reviewer. However, from the Ubuntu forums, and my own observations, I haven't gotten the impression that such a disastrous upgrade was the norm. I have the impression that the reviewer is over-generalizing from his own experience.

There were some disappointments with this upgrade. Many users have been complaining of audio glitches, in particular. Ubuntu One has been generally working poorly since it came out of beta -- many users

In particular, I think the decision to make ext4 the default filesystem was a mistake. This goes beyond Ubuntu. As I understand it, much of the improved performance of ext4 was based on assuming that applications were supposed to explicitly sync after write operations, which ext3 had handled. As it turns out, nearly all applications, including basic command line utilities such as cp and mv, actually leave it to the filesystem to handle syncing. This was the source of the problems with truncated files. After an uproar from Ubuntu and Fedora users testing ext4, they came up with fixes that basically make ext4 emulate ext3's behavior -- thus losing the performance gains. Thus, there's little benefit to upgrading to ext4.

Overall, however, I've been pleased with 9.10, as there are lots of small improvements and a general tightening up of the system.
 

son of rambo

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Well i don't know about all these comparisions with 9.04 as i only just joined the linux crowd (been wanting to for a while).

I managed to get 9.10 installed without a hitch as a virtual machine (which DOES count if people choose to use the OS in that manner). I've hit a couple of snags but mainly because i'm used to the simplicity of windows installs and am still finding my feet with ubuntu.

Overall i'd rate it a great system to run, a ah heck if you need to install anything (mind you, i've been only using the terminal to install, which i'm a novice at obviously :p).

The point??? Maybe it's just that 9.04 was such a success that you're not realising a good system when it comes along. Yes, you're setup does seem to have had a couple of early problems, but if a complete newbie can install 9.10 as a virtual machine and use it on a daily basis without hassles then i'd call this release a success, maybe not the grand success you were all hoping for, but one none-the-less.
 
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Im not suprised by the glitches you found, i know some people can't except, while on their hardware it runs flawlessly on other hardware it's a complete dogs dinner...
with grub 2 (which i understand to be effectively a beta) i can't get it installed at all..(ive managed to get every other ubuntu installed)

though fedora, suse, mandriva, sabayon, puppy and every other distro ive tried will install itself effortlessly to my hardware.
(so it can't be my hardware)


Its a shame, cause i was generally looking forward to it
but on my hardware at least (athlon x2 6000+ 4gb ram 9800gt 1gb nvidia itb sata) it is the worst buggy unusable mess ive ever wasted a cd on

I'd really like to say better, but that is my experience, just hope the bugs are sorted out for 10.04
 

biometricsguy

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I'm really surprised to see that so many people have struggled with this release. I am also among those who installed it without any major problems. The only bump in the road I experienced was related to Ubuntu-One, as others have mentioned. I just removed it (since I didn't particularly want it anyway) and it's been smooth sailing ever since.

All in all, I've been very pleased with 9.10. I'd say that it's at least worth a try. If you use separate data & install partitions, then it should be fairly easy to get back to 9.04 if you do experience problems like the author did. ( < 1 hr )
 

bachok83

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I have to agree with this article. During my 1 week of tests, I had kernel oops, kernel problem, failed to boot after updates (twice, with wubi installs).

Now I opted for dual boot, and I dare not to update the system. I dont know how long I should wait..
 

False_Dmitry_II

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[citation][nom]bachok83[/nom]I have to agree with this article. During my 1 week of tests, I had kernel oops, kernel problem, failed to boot after updates (twice, with wubi installs).Now I opted for dual boot, and I dare not to update the system. I dont know how long I should wait..[/citation]

wubi has known issues with windows seven, if that's what the problem is don't use wubi. Otherwise the updates have fixed all the problems I had.
 

mayne92

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[citation][nom]bachok83[/nom]I have to agree with this article. During my 1 week of tests, I had kernel oops, kernel problem, failed to boot after updates (twice, with wubi installs).Now I opted for dual boot, and I dare not to update the system. I dont know how long I should wait..[/citation]
Sorry but because there are some that had no problems with the release you must be considered a [insert negative adjective here] like the author. Some people believe that if they have a good experience then THAT is how it should be mainstream...some need to go look up what it means to write a review...then come back and post to one
 

scytherswings

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I can't see why you gave the desktop version a 0, I installed it on my ancient but free laptop that I received from a neighbor : an IBM ThinkPad with 512MB ram, 40GB HD, 14.1" screen and a P3 at 750Mhz, and I have had zero problems with the 32 bit version. Granted the hardware is probably more supported.. well more or less, but in my use, 9.10 has been flawless. That's my 2 cents
 

fadirocks

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sorry but I don't like Ubuntu and its hardware support I prefer knoppix, mandriva, linuxmint..and more over Ubuntu
 

dantrevino

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Its irresponsible to blame Software Center for slow downloads. Synaptic, Software Center, Add/Remove Software, and apt all work the same way.

Performance has nothing to do with the UI.
 

False_Dmitry_II

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[citation][nom]fadirocks[/nom]sorry but I don't like Ubuntu and its hardware support I prefer knoppix, mandriva, linuxmint..and more over Ubuntu[/citation]

Linux mint is based off of ubuntu. The hardware side won't be much if different at all.


[citation][nom]dantrevino[/nom]Its irresponsible to blame Software Center for slow downloads. Synaptic, Software Center, Add/Remove Software, and apt all work the same way. Performance has nothing to do with the UI.[/citation]

He didn't seem to try any other methods of downloading. I hated the UI so I just used synaptic if i didnt know the package name for apt-get method.
 

adamovera

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[citation][nom]dantrevino[/nom]Its irresponsible to blame Software Center for slow downloads. Synaptic, Software Center, Add/Remove Software, and apt all work the same way. Performance has nothing to do with the UI.[/citation]
Aye, after finding and choosing software, they are all the same. It was the Karmic repos to blame for the poor performance - keep reading that paragraph you're referencing. Also, check the benchmark which is a straight comparison of installation time. It was timed from the final confirmation to install the software, making any of the front-ends a non-factor.
The Software Center is just a UI, a poorly designed UI. It requires a ton of unnecessary user interactions (extra mouse clicks, back-tracking, and all the rest). Don't get me wrong, the future plans for Software Center sound great (replacing 5 or 6 other, currently separate, tools). But right now it's a straight replacement for Add/Remove, nothing more. In that regard it is a major pain to use compared to what it replaces. IMO, it's another example of jumping the gun with a new feature that isn't yet ready for prime-time.
 

WheelsOfConfusion

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I've got to agree with you on Ubuntu having an insane release schedule and occasionally getting hungry eyes for including new features that aren't ready yet. PulseAudio apparently wasn't ready for a lot of people when 8.04 rolled around too, and even the developer seemed to think so. I thought Fedora was supposed to be the 'bleeding edge' distro in Linuxland? Empathy may have been Gnome's decision, but that doesn't mean Ubuntu had to go with it when it still lacks basic features Pidgin already does well.
I also don't like the direction they're going for future releases, such as ditching GIMP and going with, of all things, F-Spot! That's insane, F-Spot can't even resize images as of now, a feature that's been missing for years, and they expect development pace to pick up in time for the next Ubuntu release? I would have gone with gThumb, it's a much better image viewer anyway. And I don't see a point in integrating Ubuntu One until it can become at least distro-agnostic, if not OS-agnostic.
 

haplo602

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Reading the comments seems a bit strange. As Adam noted, the negative to positive ratio is about 1:1.

I have to d/l the 9.10 Xubuntu iso and give it a try on my old box at home.

Anyway folks that blame Adam for the review, give him some credit. He seems quite capable with Linux when you take into account his past articles on Ubuntu. Also since prior releases worked for him out of the box or with minor issues on the same HW, there has to be some truth about his findings with 9.10.

Good work Adam. Oh and do a Gentoo review sometime :))
 

joet1986

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I installed 9.10 on my phenom 9600. I opt'd 32-bit since it always had issue's with 64bit OS.
Its more or les the 1st time i really used any form of Linux and so far I'm joying it.

 
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