Question Undervolting CPU (i7 13700k) leads to a decrease in performance no matter how small the undervolt is.

[saxenasiddhant12]

I have an i7 13700k paired with RTX 4070ti.

The idle temps are good (35C - 40C) and even while gaming the temps generally never go above 75C. But whenever I try to run a stress test or benchmark the temp instantly jumps to 100C.
In order to fix this a lot of the people in the community suggest undervolting as it apparently reduces the temps without affecting the performance.
I tried it today by setting the Dynamic VCORE value to an offset of -0.030V. (Fairly small offset).

But in the benchmark results, I see a significant decrease for all the components (CPU, GPU, and RAM). Is this expected? How can I undervolt without affecting the performance?

I tried with different offsets but every time there is a decrease in performance. I have shared a couple of screenshots of benchmark results for reference.
Without undervolting - https://ibb.co/pyKgFKN
With undervolting - https://ibb.co/GPLrsrr

 

[drivinfast247]

What CPU cooler do you have?

 

[hotaru.hino]

Couple of things:

• What's the clock speed trend over time?
• Use something like Cinebench R23 (you can do a single run if you don't want to wait the 10 minutes it takes by default), since I find Userbenchmark results not really useful for comparing against an actual baseline.

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

What CPU cooler do you have?

I have this one - https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0B5TNJMVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
I would say that this is not a very good cooler considering how much heat the i7 13700k produces. But before I decide to change the cooler I wanted to try other ways to reduce the heat without affecting performance.

 

[drivinfast247]

I have this one - https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0B5TNJMVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
I would say that this is not a very good cooler considering how much heat the i7 13700k produces. But before I decide to change the cooler I wanted to try other ways to reduce the heat without affecting performance.

That things a colorful turd! I'd say your PC is performing as expected with that particular cooler.

 

[Phaaze88]

i7 13700k

while gaming the temps generally never go above 75C. But whenever I try to run a stress test or benchmark the temp instantly jumps to 100C.

I have this one - https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0B5TNJMVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

That cooler isn't meant for the kinds of loads in the underlined portions.
I agree with drivinfast247, that the cooler is performing as expected.
Unless the stress test/benchmark represent something you actually use the cpu for, you're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

I agree the cooler is crap. But I have seen that undervolting does decrease the temps without affecting performance. Why is it not working for me as it does for others?

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

Will this cooler be good enough - https://www.amazon.in/Cooler-Master...6892&sprefix=cpu+cooler+tdp250,aps,209&sr=8-4

 

[Phaaze88]

Is a cooler crap if the user is choosing to use it beyond what it was intended for..?

Wish I was familiar with Raptor Lake, but you probably have to do more than just adjust dynamic Vcore these days.

Will this cooler be good enough - https://www.amazon.in/Cooler-Master...6892&sprefix=cpu+cooler+tdp250,aps,209&sr=8-4

No. Even bigger.

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

Is a cooler crap if the user is choosing to use it beyond what it was intended for..?

Wish I was familiar with Raptor Lake, but you probably have to do more than just adjust dynamic Vcore these days.


No. Even bigger.

Ok my bad you are right the cooler is fine I should have done more research... I cheaped out on the cooler

 

[Phaaze88]

Ok my bad you are right the cooler is fine I should have done more research... I cheaped out on the cooler

I mean, it's clearly doing fine in game, if that's all it's being used for... but you've not confirmed what the stress test/benchmarks are necessary for. Are you doing it just to do it?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TjJviotnI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZt_TQegHE

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

I mean, it's clearly doing fine in game, if that's all it's being used for... but you've not confirmed what the stress test/benchmarks are necessary for. Are you doing it just to do it?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TjJviotnI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZt_TQegHE

Thanks for sharing the videos. Yes, I did it just to do it. Just wanted to be safe so that if in any case if the CPU needs to work harder it shouldn't thermal throttle.

 

[Avro Arrow]

There are two ways of looking at this:

#1 - Drivinfast247 is right and your cooler is insufficient. I don't think that the Deepcool Tower Cooler is "a colourful turd" but I would definitely agree that Intel 13th-Gen CPUs require an AIO.

#2 - The only reason that the i7-13700K and i9-13900K perform as they do is because Intel overclocked them to the moon. That's why they use so much power and generate so much heat. They behave like overclocked CPUs. Therefore, anything you take away will reduce their performance because it was artificially inflated in the first place.

The i7-13700K is one of the most power-hungry and hot-running consumer-grade CPUs ever made. They're about on par with the infamous AMD FX-9590. Only the i9-13900K and i9-13900KS use more juice and generate more heat. Whenever I hear that someone bought one of these for their home/gaming PCs, I just cringe, knowing what they're in store for.

I don't believe that increasing your cooling will change the undervolting result because undervolting already reduces the heat output. Increasing the cooling might improve performance overall but there's no question that Intel 13th-gen CPUs should not be cooled by air if you don't want thermal throttling. I would recommend at least something like this:

Enermax LIQMAX III 360 ARGB - $100

 

[TerryLaze]

I tried with different offsets but every time there is a decrease in performance. I have shared a couple of screenshots of benchmark results for reference.
Without undervolting - https://ibb.co/pyKgFKN
With undervolting - https://ibb.co/GPLrsrr

There is something else going on here, you only lose 100Mhz avg speed but the scores are about half...this should not have anything to do with the vcore offset.
The 100Mhz decrease yesm but the amount of performance you lose is something else.

If your cooler is good for 5Ghz on all cores under stress then the cooler is fine as long as the noise level is ok for you.

 

[thestryker]

Definitely going to suggest using some different benchmarking tests on the undervolting because the numbers you're seeing don't really make sense based on what it's showing the clocks. It seems like more is being effected if the drop is accurate.

The cooler you have now is fine with a contact frame. The Tom's review shows it allowing their 13900K reach over 240W on it which is very close to the stock max TDP. That being said a better CPU cooler would give you a lot more room and keep overall temps down. If the Thermalright Peerless Assassin is decently priced in your country that should be a good low price option which would completely cover this CPU.

 

[uWebb429]

@saxenasiddhant12
This big drop in performance is usually caused by having the Intel Undervolt Protection feature enabled. Check your BIOS to see if you can find this setting and disable it. The slightest undervolt attempt will kill performance. The MHz will look fine but internally the CPU is throttling to about half of the normal performance.

HWiNFO should show if this is enabled or not. If you cannot find this info, send me a message if you want to run the ThrottleStop 9.5.1 beta version that will show if Undervolt Protection is enabled or not. Installing an older BIOS might be the only way to disable this new feature.

https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

View: https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

@saxenasiddhant12
This big drop in performance is usually caused by having the Intel Undervolt Protection feature enabled. Check your BIOS to see if you can find this setting and disable it. The slightest undervolt attempt will kill performance. The MHz will look fine but internally the CPU is throttling to about half of the normal performance.

HWiNFO should show if this is enabled or not. If you cannot find this info, send me a message if you want to run the ThrottleStop 9.5.1 beta version that will show if Undervolt Protection is enabled or not. Installing an older BIOS might be the only way to disable this new feature.

https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

View: https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

Yes, I confirm undervolt protection is enabled and I cannot find any setting in BIOS to disable it.
I think you are right this issue is most probably being caused due to this.

 

[uWebb429]

undervolt protection is enabled

What motherboard do you have?

Many Asus boards including B760 and B660 have a special option in the BIOS to run the older microcode, 0x104. This was before Undervolt Protection existed. It allows maximum performance when undervolting. Cinebench temperatures drop by 20C when running a 13600k on either B series board. You can thank Intel for disabling this useful feature in the newer microcode versions.

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

What motherboard do you have?

Many Asus boards including B760 and B660 have a special option in the BIOS to run the older microcode, 0x104. This was before Undervolt Protection existed. It allows maximum performance when undervolting. Cinebench temperatures drop by 20C when running a 13600k on either B series board. You can thank Intel for disabling this useful feature in the newer microcode versions.

I have a B760M DS3H AX

 

[uWebb429]

B760M DS3H AX

Does ThrottleStop 9.6 show Undervolt Protection in the FIVR window? I would install an early BIOS version if possible, before Undervolt Protection existed.

 

[saxenasiddhant12]

Quick update on this -
I was unable to undervolt but found another alternative to lower CPU temps.

The high temps were a result of Intel Turbo boost technology. I confirmed by turning it off and the temps didn't cross 60C but there was a noticeable performance drop.

So I decided to keep turbo boost on but modified some settings related to it using Intel XTU - Specifically the Turbo boost short power max and Turbo boost power max.
I set both of these values as half of the original ones and now the CPU temperature has dropped from 85C to 65C without affecting performance.

 

[mika66]

Quick update on this -
I was unable to undervolt but found another alternative to lower CPU temps.

The high temps were a result of Intel Turbo boost technology. I confirmed by turning it off and the temps didn't cross 60C but there was a noticeable performance drop.

So I decided to keep turbo boost on but modified some settings related to it using Intel XTU - Specifically the Turbo boost short power max and Turbo boost power max.
I set both of these values as half of the original ones and now the CPU temperature has dropped from 85C to 65C without affecting performance.

I had similar issue recently and after several days of googling, I am pretty sure that your problem is caused by intel CEP. Actually there are some combination on cpu and mb that you can get rid of the inte CEP, here is a detailed thread on this topic: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/where-is-the-ia-cep-option-in-the-bios.383312/. You can check the figures in this thread. So with 13700K and b760, you will never be able to down-volts with no performance decrease...The only possible (just possible, cannot confirm) is go back to older version of bios (called 104 code or something...)
It is very likely that intel knows ahead that their high-end cpu is overlocked from stock so further reducing voltage will cause instability.

 

[uWebb429]

So with 13700K and b760, you will never be able to down-volts with no performance decrease...

That is not true.

Many Asus and Gigabyte B760 motherboards have an option available in the BIOS so you can use the early 0x104 microcode. That disables Intel's new Undervolt Protection feature. After you do that, you can undervolt any of Intel's 12th or 13th Gen K series CPUs without any loss in performance.

The difference in CPU core temperatures are dramatic. Undervolting will allow a 13600K to run up to 20°C cooler during a full load stress test like Cinebench R23.

intel knows ahead that their high-end cpu is overlocked from stock so further reducing voltage will cause instability

Another statement that is not true. The default voltage Intel is using is too high. Being able to undervolt fixes this problem. It allows users to adjust the voltage to what the CPU actually needs. The B760 boards do not support overclocking. The excess voltage programmed into the K series CPU's voltage table is not needed when running these CPUs on a B760 board.

If you buy a B760 board that does not have the ability to undervolt, bring it back and exchange it for a B760 board that does.

If Undervolt Protection is enabled, the ThrottleStop FIVR window will show this.

https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

You can also use HWiNFO to report if Undervolt Protection is enabled or not.
View: https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

 

[mika66]

That is not true.

Many Asus and Gigabyte B760 motherboards have an option available in the BIOS so you can use the early 0x104 microcode. That disables Intel's new Undervolt Protection feature. After you do that, you can undervolt any of Intel's 12th or 13th Gen K series CPUs without any loss in performance.

The difference in CPU core temperatures are dramatic. Undervolting will allow a 13600K to run up to 20°C cooler during a full load stress test like Cinebench R23.


Another statement that is not true. The default voltage Intel is using is too high. Being able to undervolt fixes this problem. It allows users to adjust the voltage to what the CPU actually needs. The B760 boards do not support overclocking. The excess voltage programmed into the K series CPU's voltage table is not needed when running these CPUs on a B760 board.

If you buy a B760 board that does not have the ability to undervolt, bring it back and exchange it for a B760 board that does.

If Undervolt Protection is enabled, the ThrottleStop FIVR window will show this.

https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

You can also use HWiNFO to report if Undervolt Protection is enabled or not.
View: https://imgur.com/bpinOAW

Thanks for pointing it out, man! Do you have any real case exammple of some b760 can down-volt when working with 13700k? I had a headache with my 13700k with b760. If it can really work, I don't need to get a z790. Thanks!

 

[uWebb429]

Search Google.

Asus B760 undervolt

https://www.reddit.com/r/ASUS/comments/12tuo7j/bios_1003_for_b760_motherboards_now_allow/