Update query; from ATI Radeon Xpress 200 to............??

[mikey100tv]

Hi, everyone.

I've recently inherited an HP/Compaq Presario SR1619UK desktop PC, approx vintage early 2006. It has an AMD Athlon 64-bit 3200+ CPU, running at 2 Ghz; currently 1 Gb of RAM, shortly to become 3 Gb; and for graphics, it has the old ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated chipset.....and is running the 32-bit version of Windows XP Home Edition, 2003.

Now, I'm in my early 50's, and consequently, my computing career started off with the good old Commodore 64; still, to my mind, the best home computer OF the early 1980's. I've been using a Dell Inspiron laptop until very recently, which I had for nearly 10 years, but it was developing MAJOR issues with the USBs..! I've only become interested in the 'techie' side of things in recent months, so please bear with me...I'm still a bit new at this.

I've been reading your forums about graphics cards and the like for a few hours earlier this evening, and I'm getting the impression that the Xpress 200 chipset is NOT that reliable. Now, this computer has been sitting idle (unused) for the last five years or so, which means it probably hasn't had that much use. My question to you experts out there is this:-

IF the chipset SHOULD fail (for whatever reason), is it possible to disable it in the BIOS, and hence install a halfway-decent graphics card into one of my 3 spare PCI-Express slots...and drive my graphics that way?

Any advice from ANYBODY on the site would be much appreciated. I have somewhat of a limited income, so I don't want to go mad; bear in mind that I do NOT want this for gaming, just good-quality photo-editing (photography being my main hobby) so we're talking mainly about static screenwork here...primarily Adobe's CreativeSuite. I just want a serviceable, low to mid-range card (I understand these things CAN go up to some SILLY prices!); my budget is £100UK, or approximately $160US.

Who can give a tech-savvy 'old codger' some help with this?

 

[woltej1]

PCI Express 1.1[edit]
In 2005, PCI-SIG[20] introduced PCIe 1.1. This updated specification includes clarifications and several improvements, but is fully compatible with PCI Express 1.0a. No changes were made to the data rate.

PCIe 2.0 cards are also generally backward compatible with PCIe 1.x motherboards

the increase in power from the slot breaks backward compatibility between PCI Express 2.1 cards and some older motherboards with 1.0/1.0a

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133523 - This is a 2.0 card.

Good catch. 2.1 cards are not compatible but 2.0 are.

 

[mikey100tv]

Glad to have been some help! But it does illustrate the need to check your compatibility BEFORE you make your purchase...something I ought to have remembered myself!!

Never mind; I can return it to Maplins, and do an exchange for something else I need...like some extra RAM, for starters. Anyway, I've got some control over the Xpress 200 now; I downloaded and installed some FAR more up-to-date drivers from AMD...and then installed the current .Net Framework stuff from MyCrudSoft, too, and .....hey presto! At LONG last I've got access to the Catalyst Control Centre, so I've been playing about with that this afternoon. I'm quite surprised at how much in the way of adjustments you've got for an integrated chipset; I've sharpened -up and smoothed out my screen view quite nicely!

It's another little thing to show that this old girl hasn't had much use since it was new, back in 2005/6 or so. Most of the drivers are 2005 vintage...and even a lot of the original factory -installed software had never been activated; very odd.

I shall sort something out eventually...I shall have to do some more shopping around. From what you've dug up for me, it seems there still ARE graphics cards out there that are on some of the older standards. I must confess, I thought they'd nearly all migrated to at LEAST the 3.0 standard by now; just goes to show...helps to know someone who has a wee bit more experience in these matters than I do.

Cheers for that! And glad I could help with some info in return...

Mike.

 

[woltej1]

Do you know for sure if your slot is 1.0 or 1.1? The card may still work. PCI E 1.0 was made in 2003, PCIE 1.1 in 2005 and your computer was initially made in October, 2005 at the earliest according to HPs website.

 

[mikey100tv]

Hi, woltej.

No, I don't; this is why I need the advice of someone a bit more au-fait with this sort of stuff! The board itself is the version 1.0 Amethyst-M; obviously, MSI themselves would logically be the people to ask this of, but they won't even admit to the board's existence! I would hazard a guess that you're coming up against the same kind of 'dead ends' that I'm running into; every search engine enquiry for the Amethyst-M motherboard directs you straight to HP...who, despite offering a very comprehensive support website, are less than forthcoming upon this particular point.

My guess is that the reason HP don't list the PCI-e version in the motherboard specs, is because they used the original PCI-e slot at the time of manufacture...BEFORE there WERE any revisions...

Make sense to you?

I'm rapidly coming to the realisation that the best place to get information on older parts and systems is in the forums; manufacturers, naturally enough, want you to keep on buying new all the time...that is, after all, how they make a crust! Go figure...

A somewhat frustrated Mike!

 

[woltej1]

you should just plug in the card, the only problem would be that the card isn't getting enough power and probably won't boot up the PC. There shouldn't be any damage to the mobo or card if they actually aren't compatible. But worse case scenario you're returning the card anyways so if it gets broke oh well, just say it was delivered that way.

 

[mikey100tv]

Hi again, woltej.

Now then...it's serious advice time.

I returned the 6570 to Maplins and got a refund, no sweat. I got another 1 Gb DDR1 RAM stick I needed, to add to the one I already had, plus the pair of 512s that came with it originally...so I now have 3 Gb RAM, running in dual channel mode...BIG difference.

I found exactly what I needed last night...a .pdf file about the Amethyst mobo. It covers the two versions made for socket 939...versions 1.0 & 1.1. I know mine's a 1.0 because it says so in big letters beside the PCIe slot...which, incidentally, I now know is a 1.0a.

http://www.elhvb.com/mboards/oem/hp/manual/amethystM_manual.pdf

Done some more shopping around, and have purchased a card that seems perfect for my needs. It's an EVGA Nvidia GeForce GT 610...probably not most people's first choice, but a friend recommended it since he's been running PhotoShop on this card (also on XP) for at least 18 months now...and to date he's had no issues with it.

It's PCIe 2.0, so it'll be backwards compatible with the 1.0a slot.

After I plug it in, and fasten the bracket, and get everything re-connected, what do I expect to happen on bootup? Remember, I'm running XP on the old girl. Will I get the usual 'Windows can't start because of hardware or software changes' screen...and if so, what's the next step?

Do I bother with the driver disc supplied...or do I go to the website, and download the driver from there?

Sorry to ask all this stuff, but although this was a brand-new, shrink-wrapped package...there's no manual supplied (which I find a bit odd!) Or can I find a manual online? (Scratch that; I'm going to have a look anyway)

Don't forget; this is the first time I've ever done this; I like to get things right the first time, so I don't need to faff about!

Mike.

*************** UPDATE ****************************************************

Now, this is curious, and probably demonstrates my complete lack of experience with these things!

Found the manual on EVGA's site, so I downloaded and printed it off.

Installing the thing was a piece of cake...except one corner of the heatsink is sitting tight against the top of a capacitor on the mobo; not TOO sure that's a good idea... You have to realise this is a fanless design...it's got a HUGE heatsink.

Plugged the monitor in to the card, hooked mouse and keyboard up, and left it at that. Fired her up; startup screen came on, followed by the XP startscreen. Picture quality's like Safe Mode, you know? AS soon as Windows booted up, well....talk about slow. A snail could have sprinted past...
I couldn't even get it to recognise the combo drive, never mind install the driver disk. So I did a hard power-down, and I've removed the card & returned to normal configuration...and everything's back to normal. I'm guessing that the video stuff is a core part of Windows, yes?

I wasn't getting any blue screens, or anything like that. Now; should I have disabled the onboard graphics first? Only, if you disable the graphics chip, surely you then lose your screen view?

How do you work round not being able to see what you're doing? I don't see how you can perform a normal shutdown, if you can't see anything on the screen! I know I'm showing lack of experience here, but I'm guessing the two lots of graphics hardware are conflicting with each other, yes?

Will merely disabling the onboard graphics adapter do it...or do I need to actually uninstall the driver?

Incidentally, I've downloaded the up-to-date driver from the website, so it's sitting in the Downloads folder, ready to go.

Mike.

 

[woltej1]

I've installed new cards on computers with on board graphics without problems, but for some reason some people have issues and need to disable them. First thing I'd try for you though is to install the graphics card, start up and install the drivers from that download folder. If there's issues with that then you need to disable the graphics.

When you disable the graphics but have a discrete card without drivers, you'll still get a safe mode type screen, very pixelated. Once you install the drivers then the screen should look a lot better.

 

[mikey100tv]

Hi again, woltej.

I tell you, mate, life just sometimes seems to sling curve-ball after curve-ball at ya! I re-installed the card, waited for it all to boot-up (which is taking, like, FOREVER when the card's installed); managed to navigate to the Downloads folder (eventually! )...but as soon as I clicked on the Nvidia driver file, the 'OK' button 'greyed-out' on me...and wouldn't let me run the file. I am getting THAT pissed off with the whole thing....

OK; I've calmed down again (lol) There's obviously a conflict of some kind going on there; I'm wondering if the card just isn't compatible with my mobo. It's a PCIe 1.0a...the card's 2.0...according to all the sources I've looked at, they SHOULD play together. Don't seem to want to, though!

D'you reckon I ought to risk installing the driver package BEFORE I shut-down and install the card (again!)...and risk it interfering with the onboard graphics? I'll get this sorted one way or another, if it's the last thing I do; I'm not paying some idiot in a shop somewhere to tell me what I probably already know, and can like as not do better myself! (lol) Even if I come to the conclusion that it just ain't gonna work...

Suggestions? Comments?

Mike (getting a wee bit 'cheesed-off' [lol])

 

[woltej1]

you can try to install it, but it will most likely fail as the software will autodetect if there's a compatible card there or not.

Have you disabled the on board yet?

 

[mikey100tv]

Hiya, woltej.

Now, then; I put the card in the other day, after shutting down. I plugged everything back in; on starting up, I went into the BIOS, and reset the video adapter to PCIe (for some reason, the onboard chip has been running on the PCI setting (!) Having done that, I let it handover to Windows...and the same problem still exists. It's still dragging its heels, to the point where a snail could sprint past...

It MUST be a conflict of some kind. When it's trying to start-up with the card installed, the hard drive doesn't run like it normally does (it's barely running at all!); like I said, the combo drive won't respond at all...and where she normally boots up from power-on to 'ready to use' in about 2 mins or so, at the moment it's taking about 45-50 minutes. It's almost like you can count every individual cycle as the CPU runs! I don't understand what would put the brakes on to THAT extent...!

I am WELL confused, mate. I know I'm new to the 'techie' stuff; but that doesn't even make sense! 🙁

Care to enlighten me?


Mike.

 

[woltej1]

That is an extremely abnormal problem to be having and I'm surprised you have the patience to wait nearly an hour for a computer to boot up. A couple things.

Have you gotten the new PSU?

And does simply unplugging the video card bring the system back to normal?

 

[mikey100tv]

Hiya, woltej.

A:- No, I haven't yet got the new PSU; I thought I'd try this one for two reasons:-

1). Because the GT 610 only pulls 29W on maximum draw ( not much more than half what the 6570 would have required, and

2). Because I've switched to a wireless link for my router. The adapter is running on my USB hub (which has its own separate power supply); and because I'm now not using the Ethernet card OR the I394, they've both been disabled, so there should be even more power available in the system. I appreciate what you've said about the age of the system (and hence the age of the PSU!), but even taking that into account, everything else functions PERFECTLY.

B:- To answer your second question, yes...when the card is removed, everything else returns to normal.

It's really annoying, because with the upgrades to RAM, and one or two other little things, the old girl runs beautifully in normal configuration. If I could resolve this issue with desktop "breakthrough" in the browser, I probably wouldn't have even considered fitting a video card in the first place! (lol) [Look at the length of this thread already!!] I can't help wondering if there's some issue between the chipset and Comodo's Dragon browser, which is what I normally use. It doesn't happen in IE8 ( which is a heap of crap...but if you try removing it, then everything else starts to play up, as I'm sure you're aware...Microsoft THOROUGHLY integrated the damn thing into the operating system, that's for sure!)

I'm beginning to wonder if it's because Dragon uses Comodo's own secure DNS servers...could THAT be the issue, do you think? I don't get "breakthrough" all the time...only occasionally, and then only briefly. I'm pretty certain there's nothing wrong with the Xpress 200 chip, 'cos I've run the full set of DirectX diagnostics on it...and it passed with flying colours, even the 'full load' test. I know we're veering off on a tangent here, but it's what led to my posting the thread in the first place...

Any thoughts on that? D'you reckon I should try another browser...like Firefox, perhaps, or Opera...and see if that resolves it?

Mike.

ps Of course, it could just simply be a faulty card...but how the **** do you check it, without throwing more money at the problem, and keep buying card after card, until you find something that works? I'm on a tight enough budget already! (lol) *Sigh*

 

[woltej1]

http://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/66885 this is the driver I would recommend trying to use.

That would be weird for a non essential software like a browser to cause problems during the initial OS boot with new hardware, and a convoluted problem to solve and trouble shoot.

Where your PSU plugs into your mobo, there should be a very large plug. Are there any open spots within the plug on either end, like 4? And also is the plug have 20 connectors or 24.

 

[mikey100tv]

Hi, woltej.

I think I've got to the bottom of the mystery!

I ran the diagnostics software that HP bundled in with this Compaq when it was sold, last night. I ran the full motherboard diagnostics program (took about half an hour).....and according to that, the mobo's fine except for...you guessed it; the PCI Express slot. Also one of the spare PCI slots that's not used.

It tells me there is "a connectivity issue with more than 10 pins on this device". According to the diagnostics, this is my current state of play:-

*PCI-Express-----(empty): faulty.

*PCI-1---------------(empty): ok

*PCI-2---------------(empty): faulty

*PCI-3---------------(modem): ok

Hope that makes sense; it's laid out exactly like you'd see them looking into the case.

Sounds like the only answer for that is to replace the mobo...and that's a whole different ballgame; way out of my league!

It seems like no matter WHAT you put in that slot...it AIN'T gonna work...

I am SO sorry to have wasted your time! Thanks for all your help...we DID try.

Mike.

 

[woltej1]

That's crappy luck considering you never had a card in that slot anyways. Makes sense to your problems though. Replacing your mobo at this point would also mean a new CPU and RAM as everything will need to cooperate with each other, much more than you intended when you set out. Sorry you won't be able to throw a card in, but hopefully the boost from your RAM will keep you happy with the system.

 

[mikey100tv]

Hi again, woltej!

Yeah; sod's law, ain't it?!

Like you said, the extra RAM (3Gb) in the system means that this old girl is probably running better than it's ever run in it's life! In normal configuration, it's working beautifully. I've switched to Firefox...not a HINT of desktop 'breakthrough'; Dragon WAS the problem. It's still installed, 'cos the damn thing won't let you UNinstall it for some strange reason...my guess is Comodo have tied it in so closely to their security stuff that you can't get rid of one thing without the other;idiots...

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks VERY much for bearing with me through all this! We weren't able to achieve what I wanted to, but it goes to show there's a LOT of folk out there who don't mind sharing their expertise. Cheers, man!

Mike.