Upgrade graphics, but limit on size and watts

[RazberyBandit]

You need to use a "tuning" program that allows users to set things like that. The most popular is called RivaTuner, and you can download it at Guru3D.com

 

[raphael1782]

damn i finally got the 9600 gt low profile... but somehow it won't detect it... i tried everything from bios to disabling my onboard video card.

 

[RazberyBandit]

That is really strange, raphael. Perhaps you got a dead card. Is there any chance you can put it into another system to see if it will work within it?

 

[NEKROG]

I Bought This Cpu From Best Buy....about 3 or 4 months ago
ACer Aspire x1700
Dual Core Intel
4gb ram
nvidia Gefore G100
680 gb drive i got about 300 gb free
It Was Great and Playing Games good, watching movies good,
But Then one day it just got lame..
I Can No Longer Watch Videos in Fullscreen Without Ridiculous Lag,
Certain Games Like GTA 4 Are Unplayable Now...
Im very saddened by this....
I Did Update Drivers when they became available and Maybe that has something to do with it im unsure....
PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!
Nekro G
nekro_g@yahoo.com

 

[Guest]

Ok,

So after hunting over the net for days I manage to find a solution to the similar problem as above.
Got me a Acer Aspire M3641, got it for a good price (£200) does most things well, but is seriously lacking in the graphics department, however Acer do say on there website that they have provided a PCI express x16 slot for a dedicated hardware card (graphics card).

So I think to myself, grate, get me a solid midrange card to bump up the speed and open my major bottle neck. Found some nice cards, £50-60 mark, found the make that was highly recommended to me by a number of sites and local computer stores (XFX) went to buy a 9600GT, found under system requirements minimum 400 wots power supply needed!

Lucky for me I spotted this small print, as the Aspire M3641 has only a 220 wot power supply, so what to do?
Well after reading some more reviews, I took the plunge on a low profile 9500GT, which (touch wood) is still running correctly, with minimal problems, ON VISTA.

To sum-up

Low profile cards do seem to be limited and you do get fewer bangs for your buck, but the GPU is far superior to the onboard GPU. At the end of the day you get what you pay for, do not expect to be running Crisis’ at 50ps on this baby, managed to get a reasonable running Serious Sam 2 running on it well, that about its limits.
Hope this helps

 

[Ragnazuken]

I am wondering if someone can finally shed light on a few issues for me here.

I have been following every thread related to the x1200/x1700 series and upgrading to better lo-pro GPU's but I have yet to find anyone that can give the specs (height width etc.) and dimensions of the power supply. I also want to throw in an 9600GT and have been able to find one at a reasonable price. I am wondering if anyone has been able to track down a 400w+ power supply that can fit in this case and replace the stock one.

I am looking to get the x1700 but only if it would be possible to change the power supply. I have looked into the option of external power supplies but have not found one that is actually on the market. If anyone can shed some light on this or even confirm whether or not the FPS on games such as COD4 and COD WAW or good at the highest settings.

If its possible to get a new power supply, throw in a quad core, make a few mods to the case for better ventilation and throw in a 9600GT the thing would be a BEAST for LAN's.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated, I just cant stand to build another huge gaming case and I don't have the cash I used to. This could be a real life saver and a hell of a great machine for a few years!

-Ragnazuken

 

[joymanavath]

To be honest I don't see point in upgrading ur pc, what every u upgrade its not enough and u will have to change other components too u will replace ur 7100 with 7600 and there is not much difference, and even that ur pc will work on that power supply it may freez very often.

hi,

i was wondering which graphic card should i install, is the 9 series any better than the 8, i want to upgrade from a 7100GS .. not so kicked about vista using a windows xp os ... how abt the 8800GT .. i game a lot so pl recommend .. im running a 2.33GHZ core 2 quad .. with an intel mother board .. 4 BG RAM ..

J

 

[RazberyBandit]

Ragnazuken, I highly doubt you'll be able to find a like-sized upgrade power supply from anyone other than Acer themselves due to it being specifically built for them by a contracted OEM supplier. I doubt they even have or offer one at all.

What you could do is purchase a GPU power supply, such as these (LINK) from Fortron Source and VisionTek. Since you're using a slim-line case, they likely will not mount inside your system, but you could still use one. You might have to open one up and drill a few small holes, or use double-sided tape to mount it. You'd also need to open up another larger hole, install a grommet, then run the wiring. It's an option, and not a very expensive one.


Joymanavath. The 9-series is nearly identical to the 8-series, but most models do have slight improvements over their 8-series cousins. If you're using a slim-line case machine like the Acer X1700 that's been mentioned previously, you cannot use an 8800GT as they are not available in a low-profile card configuration, which is what slim-line cases require. Available options are rather limited, with the 9600GT likely being the most powerful card available in a low-profile form. Though, Sparkle does make a 9800GT (LINK) in a low-profile form... From a price/performance aspect, it's my opinion that the ATI 4650 with DDR3 is usually the best choice for most low-profile applications. Unfortunately, they are hard to find. Newegg doesn't even stock one. They have a couple DDR2 models, but not a single DDR3 model.

If you're not using a slim-line case and aren't limited to low-profile cards, then I'd highly recommend the new GTS250 over both the 8 and the 9-series card options. Of course, you'll need to be able to properly power whatever card you choose, so you'll want to look at your power supply's specs.

 

[lulu83]

Yeah, check your PM's in your profile. I sent one a while ago, but I guess you missed it.

Hi,
How did you manage to get your graphic card recognized? I've been trying for 2 days, but nothing to do
Thank you very much

 

[lulu83]

Completly no difference, nothign happended, i disabled onboard video and the default vga was already set to pcie.... And so since i didnt have a picture on the montior through the graphics card vga or dvi i put the vga cable back into the onboard and thats the only way im getting a picture right now, also nothing except the geforce 7100 integraded showing up in device manager..... Is there a quicker way we can communicate like IM?

 

[RazberyBandit]

Inside the BIOS there should be an option to select what VGA device to initialize first. Depending upon the BIOS itself, you may see options such as PCIE, PEG, PCI, GGFX, and various other abbreviations. You'll need to consult either the manufacturer or the motherboard user guide to find which of those is the correct selection for your application. However, the abbreviation that most closely matches the interface-type of the video card (be it PCI Express, PCI, or AGP) should be the correct one.

Lastly, if you have built-in (on-board) video, you will also have to find the option within the BIOS to disable it. BIOSes vary greatly from PC to PC. Unfortunately, that means I cannot tell you where to specifically tell you to find these options, nor what setting(s) would be correct.

 

[lulu83]

Inside the BIOS there should be an option to select what VGA device to initialize first. Depending upon the BIOS itself, you may see options such as PCIE, PEG, PCI, GGFX, and various other abbreviations. You'll need to consult either the manufacturer or the motherboard user guide to find which of those is the correct selection for your application. However, the abbreviation that most closely matches the interface-type of the video card (be it PCI Express, PCI, or AGP) should be the correct one.

Lastly, if you have built-in (on-board) video, you will also have to find the option within the BIOS to disable it. BIOSes vary greatly from PC to PC. Unfortunately, that means I cannot tell you where to specifically tell you to find these options, nor what setting(s) would be correct.

Thanks for your reply RazberyBandit
I already did all that but it didn't work (acer x3200, nvidia 8200 built in, nvidia 9300GE changed for a ati 4550 low profile)
The Pc works fine wit the the Nvidia 9300GE, but nothing to do with the ATI (in that case only works with the nvidia 8200 built in, with the 8200 set on first screen in the bios). I desactivated the SLI in the bios but still don't work with the ATI (it seems to be regognised -everest sees it- but in windows, code 43). During the boot, the ati don't work too (no screen during the boot too)
Seems to be like the nvidia sli in still on and desactivate the ati

 

[RazberyBandit]

Your best course of action might be to contact Acer to see what they suggest. It's possible you may need to clear the CMOS to reset all the BIOS settings. There may also be an update for the BIOS.

If you are in the US, please go here and you can download BIOS, driver, and application updates.
If you're not in the US, use the global site and select your location, then select your updates.

Again, if possible, you may want to contact Acer Support directly to see what they suggest.

 

[mrmah]

This is a good thread - thanks Steverunner and RazberyBandit for the input. I too have this same 'problem' but I have the Acer AX3810 slimline.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10126356&catid=20217

I installed a GeForce 9400GT low profile card and had no problems recognizing it. It upgraded the windows sub-score for 3D graphics from 4.1 to 5.3 (oddly Aero only scored 5.1?) so I'm pretty happy with that. I'm not a huge gamer but just got into WoW and was looking for something that I could play it with that didn't make it look like a slideshow. This card handles it nicely on medium detail, but it does get pretty hot after a few hours. The setup does have 1 inherent flaw however, the GPU cooling fan points 'up', that is, to the roof of the computer case. There is maybe 1cm of clearance and no vent holes, but there are vent holes on the side panel. I'm thinking of methods to provide extra cooling: (1) drill more holes in the top of the case or (2) attach an external USB fan, perhaps custom made - obviously no room in the case or (3) both.

Any other ideas to control heat problems? The case is set up in a fairly open area as it is.

Thanks again

 

[RazberyBandit]

mrmah: I had no luck in finding a picture of the interior of your case, but I've got a hunch it's pretty standard as far as Acer's slimline designs go, meaning your video card's fan is pretty much right up against the very top of the case. Please correct me if that is wrong.

If I'm right, the only way to ensure the card is going to get any fresh, cool air is to create a vented opening above it. Modding a case as such should be a last resort, as drilling vent holes in the case is something that should only be done with all the interior components removed to prevent debris (metal shavings) from getting into places where it can cause serious damage. Unless you're comfortable disassembling your PC, drilling holes in it, cleaning it thoroughly, and then reassembling it, you may not want to try it. But, this would be the preferred method.

That said, it is possible to do this without disassembling it completely. You would need to isolate the area you'll be drilling within by masking off the rest of the case. Some newspaper and masking tape should do the trick. You may also want to use a vacuum while drilling to ensure no debris gets loose, but you'll probably need to have someone else hold the vacuum nozzle at your cut points while you drill.

If you decide to drill, here's a small tip when drilling metal:
Once you make a hole, grab a drill bit that's a few sizes larger than the one with which you made the hole. Center and press it against the hole using your fingers. Gently spin it in the hole a few times to remove any burs. Repeat the process on the reverse side. This will also slightly round-off the edges of the hole, making them less sharp.


Edit: Now that I've had a minute to think about it, the cover that goes over the top of the case should be completely removable, making modifications to it much simpler than I outlined above...

 

[stevenrunner]

Hey Razberry im back and I was wondering if I can get this?

gt 220!
http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=026696&cid=VDC.243.390

My hd4650 has stopped working and I have read reviews that the gt 220 is even better than a 4650 ddr3!
I was wondering if my 220w psu can handle it?
Please reply!

 

[RazberyBandit]

Power consumption ratings of the HD4650 and GT220 are very similar, give or take a couple watts depending on the clock settings of each individual card in question. So, you should be able to power it just fine. And, since it's low-profile, it should be a perfect fit in your slim-line case.

We talked briefly about this in private, and I'm aware you've already purchased another HD4650 to replace the broken one, but I still think you should RMA the broken Sapphire 4650. It might cost you $10 or so in shipping costs for the RMA, but you'll then have a working card you could sell for a few bucks to recover some of the cost of replacing it.

As for buying the GT220, I wouldn't recommend it. You've already spent roughly $150 on two HD4650's. This is money that could have gone towards replacing or upgrading the entire system, which is truly your performance choke point.

Lastly, if you decide you want to get the GT220 anyway, compare CC's price to Newegg Canada's:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121347&Tpk=ENGT220
Newegg is a few bucks cheaper.

 

[Guest]

To everyone on this post, THANKS!! I've been following this post ever since I bought an AX1700-U3700A (4 Gig RAM Model). It came with a GeForce G100 (!!!) and was completely useless for RealFlight G4 and very rough with COD4. Based on your suggestions (thanks for initially asking the question Steven and also for your insightful comments, Razberry) I purchased a Radeon Saphire HD4650 Pcie 512MB DDR2 Dvi-i /hdmi 128BIT Low Profile video card ($64 on Amazon).

Installation was flawless, ran caseless for a while with no thermal issues. With no increase in clocking, I went from a 4.0 to a 4.7 in Windows Experience Index, with my Graphics component going from 4.0 to 5.0 and my Gaming Graphics jumping from 4.8 to 5.4.

Now, I understand that I am limited by the small frame size of the 1700 series, but I like the look and the size (yes, I guess it's my computer vanity). And with this upgrade, RealFlight is unbelievably fast at full texture overlay and COD4 is running smoothly.

Hopefully this will continue, but if I get a year out of it, I'll be happy to shell out another $64 bucks. Cheers! - Scott

 

[jezza96]

Completly no difference, nothign happended, i disabled onboard video and the default vga was already set to pcie.... And so since i didnt have a picture on the montior through the graphics card vga or dvi i put the vga cable back into the onboard and thats the only way im getting a picture right now, also nothing except the geforce 7100 integraded showing up in device manager..... Is there a quicker way we can communicate like IM?

hey i gt the same as u 4650 low profile but i couldnt get it 2 work how did u do it pllzzzzzzzz reply
i gt the acer x3200 which is basically the same model help me !!!!! lol

 

[jezza96]

it also has a g100 but has a quad core amd phenom 9650 2.3ghz 4gb ddr2
i think it might have a 240w-250w because of the quad core
might it be a dead card (im runing the 4650 off dvi cable)

 

[RazberyBandit]

Scott: I'm glad you found this information useful. I can tell this is one example where a little research brought great dividends. I'm happy you're enjoying your games and hope you'll be able to enjoy many more before retiring that PC.

Jezza: I'm not sure what the problem is - the card could be dead, misaligned, or perhaps you haven't entered the BIOS and set the graphics options to PCIe instead of on-board. Check your BIOS setting and make sure the card's installed properly, then give it another go.
If you hear the system booting (audible activity from the hard drive and/or the HDD light activity) then the system might still be using the on-board for display. Attach your monitor cable to the old output to verify this. If it's still using on-board, shutdown, reboot, and correct your BIOS graphics setting. If the system doesn't boot, then it's likely the card (or perhaps the PCIe slot on the motherboard) is in fact defective. Exchange the card for another and try again.

 

[gregawil]

Okay--since Raz is obviously the guru (seriously...this is why Tom's is by far a superior site to the "get lost with your subpar system, clown" places out there on the Interwebs ), I've got one to throw at you: I've got a Dell Inspiron 531s (I know, I know, Dell is terrible, slimline case is terrible...long story why I ended up with this, but I'm stuck with it now for at least another year) and a BFG Nvidia 9400 GT, low profile, obviously. It ran fine for about a year and then gave out, largely because the stock PSU (250w) wasn't powerful enough for the card. (By the way, I'm kind of a moderate gamer, I guess--some Company of Heroes, some Dragon Age, a bit of World of Warcraft here or there.)

BFG was kind enough to RMA the card, so I've now got a new functioning 9400GT. While waiting, I installed a Seasonic 300W PSU, which is the best I can do for this particular case, and according to the BFG tech people this should be fine for this card. When I re-installed the new card I noticed the GPU temp was too high--68c on idle, 92c at full load. So I installed a better case fan, which dropped the GPU temp about six or seven degrees...better, but not perfect. I've ordered a low profile PCI fan, which should install directly under my video card and blow directly on the GPU, so my hope is that it will drop the temperature even further, perhaps another ten degrees or so. That would leave me with about 52c idle, 75c at full load. (And my CPU is running no higher than 40C idle, maybe 48c at load, so that should be okay.)

So two questions: one, is a final GPU temp of 52c idle and 75c load okay? And two, if I decide to upgrade the card in six months (no, I won't have the budget for a new comp for at least six months past that ), what suggestions would people have, given my system specs?

Thanks, and apologies for the "clown subpar system" in advance.

 

[gregawil]

Bump for great justice, as the kids do say.

 

[RazberyBandit]

Gregawil: Your temps are quite high. Typically, one would expect idle temps in the 40-45C range, with maximum load temps remaining under 80C, even on cards/GPUs which are far more powerful and sometimes notorious for high temperatures. (Overclocked HD4890's come to mind.) These higher temps aren't really a detriment to the card as they are within operating limits. However, sustained higher temps usually lessen their longevity. In addition, hot graphics cards become a heat source that can raise the overall system temp, which can create a snowball-effect that increases temps for all components within the chassis. This is bad...

You seemed to have speculated at those final temperature figures, guessing what they "might" be should this PCI-slot fan actually live up to it's advertising. Personally, I'd contact BFG and request replacement. Any card that hits 95C under load has insufficient cooling, regardless of the GPU's specified thermal limits.

As for your future concerns, should you decide to upgrade your GPU, the most powerful low-profile, low-power requirement cards available today are, in order:
HD5570
GT220
HD4650
These cards draw less than 50W of power (4amps or less) and would mop the floor with that 9400GT in terms of performance. Prices vary in the $60-$100 range depending upon the model chosen. There are more powerful cards available in that price range, but they are standard size, not low-profile. Still, their existence alone begs the question, "Is my money being well spent?"

 

[gregawil]

Thanks, Raz--actually I ended up asking this question in a separate thread, because I figured this thread had been buried--thanks to everyone's advice I ended up getting that HD 5570 (though I didn't know that some of them didn't have the Displayport...blech). It runs much cooler, and is a superior card--now I just need to figure out why my primary monitor sometimes blanks out randomly. But on the whole it's a big improvement. Thanks a ton for your help! (And if you have any thoughts about that random monitor blanking, that would be good too... )