[SOLVED] Upgrade or replace?

[GreenGiant117]

So my computer is about 5 years old, and is starting to show its age.
I'm fairly certain that a wipe and reinstall will help it run better for a while to come, but I'm limited to Windows 10 with my current CPU (1800X), my motherboard (MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon) had a firmware update to allow for the latest CPUs.

Current build is:
MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon
Ryzen 7 1800X
32GB DDR4 3200 Corsair Vengeance LPX
MSI GamingX GTX 1080ti
Samsung 960 Evo 250 GB NVME
Seagate Barracuda 2TB (x2)
Seasonic X-850 PSU

In order to upgrade to Windows 11 I need a new CPU at the very least, but I also just upgraded my monitor to a 48" LG C1 which I cannot make full use of with the 1080ti, so I would also like to upgrade my graphics card.

As far as CPUs I'm leaning towards the 5800X or 5900X, drop in replacement but newer, the 5900X with more cores is tempting since I do some photo/video editing and those few more cores would definitely streamline things a bit.

For GPU I'm leaning towards the 3080 12GB, since it is a clear upgrade over the 1080ti for theoretically a couple hundred less than the 3080ti.

All this being said, with just those upgrades I'm looking at a theoretical cost of $1,250-$1,500 (at MSRP, with actual prices these days more like $1,400-1,700)

This is my conundrum, I can get a whole new system from a "custom build" company with a 5800X or i7-12700K and 3080 10 or 3080ti, and 1tb NVME for $2,400-2,700 which would future proof my system for another 5 years probably longer, and then I could probably sell my old PC for $500 or so most likely meaning for an extra $500 or so I can get a completely new machine.

Should I start saving and pull the trigger on this in the next couple months or should I wait a little longer for 4000 series Nvidia to come out and 7000 series ryzen? I'm not tied to AMD though, just want best performance I can get for the best price.

Any advice welcome, thanks!

 

[Darkbreeze]

Those CPUs are not on the support list for the X370 Gaming Pro Carbon. The latest supported CPU generation based on the MSI website's CPU support list for that motherboard would be the 3000 series models. Doing so would, seemingly, according to the MSI website provide you with Windows 11 compatibility if you manually enable TPM 2.0 in the BIOS, but at this late date it wouldn't make a lot of sense to go that route even though it would still be a definite upgrade over what you have now. If you are going to spend that kind of money, might as well get whatever is most recent in order to give your upgrade some reasonable expectation of longevity.

Unless you really want to spend the extra money, I'd recommend just doing something like this and use the memory you have now. Or, if you prefer to upgrade the memory as well to DDR5, you can do that, but you'd be looking at a premium of probably 500 additional dollars or thereabouts to do so and honestly at current prices for DDR5 it's simply not worth it as you are not going to see any additional performance really considering the platform is still fairly new and has not evolved to lower latency models yet.

You might also wish to go with the i7-12700k instead of the i5 I included, but I'm not sure your use case benefits all that much from it. If it does, then you could easily swap it out.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor ($274.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright MACHO Rev.C 84.97 CFM CPU Cooler ($51.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($239.24 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 12GB LHR 12 GB XC3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($983.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1550.20
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-04-14 09:46 EDT-0400

 

[geofelt]

You can get a considerable uplift with a 5000 series cpu replacement.
That would be the simplest and most cost effective cpu upgrade.
There is no such thing as "future proofing"
Buy what you need now..... now.
If you wait for the next best thing, you will wait forever.

To run the 48" LG c1 at 120hz, you need a stronger hdmi which you will only find on 3000 series or modern graphics cards.
You will also need a high quality ultra HDMI cable.
I needed to do this with my own C1.

You now have a top quality psu.
Pre builds often skimp on the psu.

Yes, I think a 3080 class gpu will be needed for fast action gaming at 4k resolution.

On the cpu, I am becoming more and more convinced that the single thread performance is the key to good gaming and desktop responsiveness.
Run the cpu-Z bench test on your 8100. The single thread score should be about 411:
https://valid.x86.fr/bench/l3xsex
That list will give you some idea of the capability of other options.
12600K might be a reasonable option.

 

[logainofhades]

I would argue that a 12700 non k, on a decent B660 board, is the best price/performance option. Overclocking is a waste of time, these days.

Intel Core i7-12700 + Intel B660 Review

Today we have a combo review of all-new Intel hardware, our first look at the affordable Intel B660 platform, the non-K Core i7-12700 and Intel's latest box...

www.techspot.com

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700 2.1 GHz 12-Core Processor ($349.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler ($74.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B660 GAMING X AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 12GB LHR 12 GB XC3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($983.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1578.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-04-14 10:13 EDT-0400

 

[CountMike]

You can get R9 3900x which would be straight shoe in for the rest of the system and it's not far from 5900x. MSI promised 5000 compatible BIOS for all 300 chipset series by May 20 and some like Tomahawk already have it. That's by same time new Ryzen like 5800x3D should be out for sale.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Overclocking is a waste of time, these days.

Yes. Pretty much.

Honestly, anything from the 12600k up to the 12700k, or honestly mostly any of the Ryzen 5xxx series equivalents, all make a lot of sense because for the first or maybe actually second time, both camps have very, very worthy parts in the latest gen. AMD has better prices right now overall, but that is nothing new. Intel, luckily, has the overall better performers not counting the ONE new SKU AMD released just to be able to reclaim the gaming title. Big deal. Honestly, Any of the mid to upper SKUs from both camps, are really good right now and honestly as far as just the CPUs go, the prices are probably lower than they have ever been for CPUs if we are talking about performance per dollar.

Other stuff, like motherboards and graphics cards, maybe not so much. It is what it is.

 

[sizzling]

A cheap cpu upgrade would be to drop in a 3700X and then go with a 3080 12GB. Im running a 3700X and 3080 10GB, it does a great job of 1440p 144Hz, I am planning to upgrade to a 5800X3D as I upgraded my monitor to 1440p 240Hz. I keep thinking about building a 2nd rig for the living room using the 3700X as I also have a 4K 120Hz TV and it’s a pain moving the pc between rooms. At 4K I really think you won’t see any gains today from a bigger cpu upgrade. Here in the UK you can pickup a 3700X from a secondhand electrical chain of shops that includes a 2 year warranty, if you have anything similar it should be a really cheap upgrade and will have no problem keeping up. The only negative is it might fewer years before your next upgrade.

 

[GreenGiant117]

A cheap cpu upgrade would be to drop in a 3700X and then go with a 3080 12GB. Im running a 3700X and 3080 10GB, it does a great job of 1440p 144Hz, I am planning to upgrade to a 5800X3D as I upgraded my monitor to 1440p 240Hz. I keep thinking about building a 2nd rig for the living room using the 3700X as I also have a 4K 120Hz TV and it’s a pain moving the pc between rooms. At 4K I really think you won’t see any gains today from a bigger cpu upgrade. Here in the UK you can pickup a 3700X from a secondhand electrical chain of shops that includes a 2 year warranty, if you have anything similar it should be a really cheap upgrade and will have no problem keeping up. The only negative is it might fewer years before your next upgrade.

I like the option, but the cheapest I can find the 3700X around here is like $300 or so, which sucks if it's only going to get me a couple years, $350 I can get the 12700 and be good for another 5 give or take.

You can get R9 3900x which would be straight shoe in for the rest of the system and it's not far from 5900x. MSI promised 5000 compatible BIOS for all 300 chipset series by May 20 and some like Tomahawk already have it. That's by same time new Ryzen like 5800x3D should be out for sale.

I might wait until May to see if my board gets the updated Bios and then drop a bit on a 5700X or 5800X, maybe even a 3D depending on stocks and pricing.

At the very least I might jump right into the 3080 since I can get that EVGA for near MSRP.

 

[Darkbreeze]

You can get a considerable uplift with a 5000 series cpu replacement.

MSI promised 5000 compatible BIOS for all 300 chipset series by May 20

As I said already, according to the ASRock website, that board does not support the 5000 series CPUs. If and when they update the support to include those, great, but until then for the NOW, you have to act like they are not supported, because they are not. If somebody were to buy one now and try to use it on that board, it would not work. And, we've heard manufacturers and OEMs say, before, that they were going to add this or that and then reverse gears later and say no they are not going to do that or that they can't do it on certain models, because they've encountered problems with not enough storage space on the BIOS ROM to do it and for other reasons as well such as AMD/Intel not allowing it in some cases. Don't count chickens that haven't hatched yet.

 

[GreenGiant117]

As I said already, according to the ASRock website, that board does not support the 5000 series CPUs. If and when they update the support to include those, great, but until then for the NOW, you have to act like they are not supported, because they are not. If somebody were to buy one now and try to use it on that board, it would not work. And, we've heard manufacturers and OEMs say, before, that they were going to add this or that and then reverse gears later and say no they are not going to do that or that they can't do it on certain models, because they've encountered problems with not enough storage space on the BIOS ROM to do it and for other reasons as well such as AMD/Intel not allowing it in some cases. Don't count chickens that haven't hatched yet.

I understand, I'm going to hold off on CPU for now, might get the GPU upgrade for the support for the new monitor.
Or honestly it does seem like IF my current PC is not getting 5000 support it seems to make sense to cut my losses and just get a new one. Looking around I might be able to get a good $700 for my current rig, meaning a complete new system will run me $2,000 max, which is $700 more than just a CPU and GPU upgrade, feels like a reasonable cost for a significant upgrade for 5+ years over moderate improvement for another 2-3 years.

 

[Why_Me]

MSI pretty much has the B660 market on lockdown as far as running an i7 all day long due to their superior phase design.

You could do something like this.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700f-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118359
Intel Core i7-12700F $312.96

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144531
MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 $139.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660M-A-DDR4

or ...

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144523
MSI PRO B660-A DDR4 $149.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660-A-DDR4/Overview

 

[Darkbreeze]

MSI has no such thing. I'm running a 12700k on a mid tiered Gigabyte Aorus elite ax and have all cores at a manual 5Ghz and there are no issues whatsoever. So to say that the most morally corrupt motherboard manufacturer is the only choice worth considering for any of the chipsets, is patently ridiculous. And I could care less if we are talking Z690, B660, or anything else. Every manufacturer has both good and bad options for any given CPU SKU. Trying to indicate otherwise seems like it's a bit sensationalist.

Besides which, it's been a few years since any conscientious person could recommend any MSI product without flinching.

As far as the CPU upgrade is concerned, then yes, if you are willing to wait on that until BIOS support arrives, that's definitely the most finance friendly prospect. Otherwise, well, you've seen plenty of options here but I'll just say that I am very happy with the gains I'm seeing in applications, gaming and multitasking, going from my overclocked 6700k to the 12700k, besides which the platform offers support for features you won't yet find on any AMD platform, much less a relatively older one like X370.

 

[cryoburner]

Looking around I might be able to get a good $700 for my current rig, meaning a complete new system will run me $2,000 max, which is $700 more than just a CPU and GPU upgrade, feels like a reasonable cost for a significant upgrade for 5+ years over moderate improvement for another 2-3 years.

That is only when assuming you wouldn't be able to get anything for your graphics card and processor when sold individually without the rest of the system. I don't know about where you are located, but at least in the US, the current typical selling price for a used 1080 Ti on eBay is close to $400 shipped, with some selling for more. And a used 1800X sells for over $100. With the shipping and listing fees figured in, that might net you close to $400 or so in total. So, assuming you were selling hardware either way, the new system would work out to costing several hundred dollars more than the $700 difference you figured. Of course, as graphics card prices likely continue to drop over the coming months, it would only be natural for the used market prices to come down as well. Though I suspect the new card prices may drop by a larger amount than the 1080 Ti will, since they are currently priced substantially higher to begin with.

As for a "significant upgrade" versus a "moderate" one, both options should perform rather similar. Whether you went with the original 3080 or a 3080 Ti wouldn't matter much, as they both perform within 10% of one another, and even the 3090 performs about the same as the 3080 Ti in games. And a 3080 12GB performs roughly between the 3080 and 3080 Ti. So, paying a significant amount extra for one over another doesn't make for a particularly good value.

And at higher resolutions, you are unlikely to notice any perceptible performance difference between a 5800X and something like a 12700K, as they should typically perform within a couple percent of one another at 1440p or above when paired with a 3080-class card in graphically-demanding games. Even at 1080p, a 12700K doesn't tend to be much more than 5% faster on average.

And decent 1TB NVMe drives can be had for a little over $100, so adding one would be trivial.

 

[Why_Me]

MSI has no such thing. I'm running a 12700k on a mid tiered Gigabyte Aorus elite ax and have all cores at a manual 5Ghz and there are no issues whatsoever. So to say that the most morally corrupt motherboard manufacturer is the only choice worth considering for any of the chipsets, is patently ridiculous. And I could care less if we are talking Z690, B660, or anything else. Every manufacturer has both good and bad options for any given CPU SKU. Trying to indicate otherwise seems like it's a bit sensationalist.

Besides which, it's been a few years since any conscientious person could recommend any MSI product without flinching.

As far as the CPU upgrade is concerned, then yes, if you are willing to wait on that until BIOS support arrives, that's definitely the most finance friendly prospect. Otherwise, well, you've seen plenty of options here but I'll just say that I am very happy with the gains I'm seeing in applications, gaming and multitasking, going from my overclocked 6700k to the 12700k, besides which the platform offers support for features you won't yet find on any AMD platform, much less a relatively older one like X370.

Unlike yourself, I don't see many peeps spending over $200 USD on a B660 board in order to run a 12700K. As far as people spending under $200 on a B660 board that award goes to MSI and their 12 phase cooling design per multiple tech sites including Hardware Unboxed.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Unlike yourself, I don't see many peeps spending over $200 USD on a B660 board in order to run a 12700K. As far as people spending under $200 on a B660 board that award goes to MSI and their 12 phase cooling design per multiple tech sites including Hardware Unboxed.

I'm not sure why anybody would even want to do that, since it defeats the purpose, so I agree in that regard. However, for like another 40 bucks you can get a pretty decent quality Z690 board. And if your budget is such that it necessary to go with a budget motherboard, then it might not make sense to go with a higher end CPU anyhow, so something like the 12600k I originally listed might make more sense in that case to save some additional cost along with a lower priced B660. But, to each their own.

 

[Why_Me]

I'm not sure why anybody would even want to do that, since it defeats the purpose, so I agree in that regard. However, for like another 40 bucks you can get a pretty decent quality Z690 board. And if your budget is such that it necessary to go with a budget motherboard, then it might not make sense to go with a higher end CPU anyhow, so something like the 12600k I originally listed might make more sense in that case to save some additional cost along with a lower priced B660. But, to each their own.

It's the only sub $150 board that sites such as HBU recommend for running an 12700/12700F all day long.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144531
MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 $139.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660M-A-DDR4

 

[Karadjgne]

You don't need a cpu upgrade to run Win11. Win11 has 2 requirements. Secure boot (available on motherboards since the stone ages) and TPM 2.0 which is available on your board after Security Device is enabled.
AMD

Series	Chipset
500 Series	X570 / B550 / A520
400 Series	X470 / B450
300 Series	X370 / B350 / A320*
TR4 Series	TRX40 / X399*

You don't need a cpu upgrade to run a 4k OLED tv. Cpu has little to nothing to do with resolution and higher resolutions affect gpus ability to get fps on screen.

You do need a gpu upgrade since a 1080ti isn't going to cut it with any modern graphics at decent settings and get decent fps at 4k.

So your options are buy a gpu or buy a full pc after saving up and by that time Am5/rtx4k series might be an option. With DDR5 prices and availability, you'd most likely be going Intel anyway with a ddr4 mobo unless AMD opts to follow suit and offer both.

Personally, I'd opt for a gpu now, milk that 1800x for everything it's got, save up for a cpu/mobo swap later after seeing cpu/ram/mobo options and pricing after 13thgen/am5 drops.