Upgrading after 10+ years. What's changed?

[lm137]

Hi,

The last PC I built is now about 11 years old, still running the good ol' Windows XP and quite frankly out-performing many newer computers (esp. those with the burden of Windows Vista). Nevertheless, it's time for an upgrade, not least because Windows XP is unsupported.

I have been out of the game for a long time, so I don't really have a clue as to what is going on. I know AGPs have been replaced by something called PCI express or other , and SSD SATA hard drives have superseded regular PATA hard-disks that spin a magnetic disk, but not much apart from that (oh and that BIOS has being replaced by an acronym I can't remember).

Is there anything in particular I have to look out for?

Here is my summary:

Approximate Purchase Date: ASAP

Budget Range: I had about 500GBP / $780USD in mind, but whatever it takes.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Using text-based applications (programming), emailing, surfing the web

Are you buying a monitor: No: I would like to keep my old Samsung 15" which has the blue analogue connector (d-connector?)


Parts to Upgrade: CPU, motherboard, hard drive (SSD), graphics card. I recently bought a new PSU because the old one started making a funny sound, so hopefully it will be ok...

Corsair Builder Series CX 430 Watt ATX/EPS 80 PLUS Bronze Power Supply Unit
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009RMP14M?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

I would very much like to keep the existing midi tower ATX case. I presume the form factor has remained the same, I will be able to screw in a new motherboard? :-/ The smallest slots it has are 3.5". If the HDD is smaller, can I buy some kind of adapter?

Do you need to buy OS: Yes, I will be buying Windows 8.1 Pro (and I suppose upgrading to Windows 10). I would switch to Linux, but I need Windows for one important application (IDE), and well, I suppose I am too used to it (MS has won ).

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: amazon.co.uk, ebuyer.com, dabs.com, (anywhere I don't mind)

Location: London, United Kingdom

Parts Preferences: I am partial to AMD. The existing AMD Athlon XP+, MTI motherboard machine has been running constantly for almost the whole 11 years with no problems that I can remember (other than being shut down by power grid cuts). However, if anyone can make a strong argument as to why Intel e.g. is more reliable than my mind is open. Reliability is a top priority. I would like it to have server-like reliability

Overclocking: Not necessary

SLI or Crossfire: I have no idea what this means

Your Monitor Resolution: 1024x768 is the highest supported resolution I believe. This is fine for my purposes. I hope a new graphic card can support such a low resolution!

Additional Comments:

It needs to be as fast as possible loading applications and have lots of memory to juggle multiple applications (I notice that Firefox and Thunderbird can easily consume over 1GB a piece).

SSD with 256GB should be sufficient. I am partial to Samsung unless you will tell me their SSDs are unreliable or not good for some reason.

Graphics/games performance is not important - entry level card is fine.

I would like it to stand the test of time like its predecessor

I think that is it. Thank you for any suggestions!

 

[Reyaz123]

Text based apps? You should be fine with 4gb of ram (or 2x2gb of ram which is dual-chanel speed)

Not so sure about adapters to fit a 2.5 in a 3.5 but it should fit regardless

Best cpu for programming are the Intel i3 or i5 series (i5 is more expensive but is mainly for gamers. I suggest you get i3)
Amd cpus are more affordable, but slightly worse performance than intel
Check if your motherboard is compatible with the above processors first.


There are hdmi monitors available now, just so you know that.

A few other websites to purchase discounted pc parts are; tigerdirect, newegg

 

[mcnumpty23]

you dont even need a graphics card for what you want so thats money saved the integrated graphics on a modern cpu will suffice at that low resolution easily

either AMD or intel cpus nowadays can come with decent integrated graphics

samsung evo 850 250gb is the sweet spot ssd price/performance wise at this point in time

have a look here and in other sections of their site to get an idea of what £500 can get you

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?catid=2473&groupid=43&sortby=priceAsc

 

[mcnumpty23]

oh and sli means using 2 nvidia graphics cards at once

and crossfire 2 AMD cards at once

so totally irrelevant in your case anyway

 

[freeskier93]

Here's a pretty good build that leaves you plenty of money to get a real monitor. Of everything you could possibly upgrade a new monitor might just be the best upgrade you could make, especially productivity wise.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD A10-7850K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($123.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-D3H ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($62.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($48.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($97.98 @ B&H)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro OEM (64-bit) ($131.65 @ OutletPC)
Total: $465.49
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-12 17:41 EDT-0400

 

[boosted1g]

In 11 years the main differences are that the onboard nic and audio chips are more then suitable for computers so there is no need for separate cards.
Integrated graphics is mostly on the CPU now and not the motherboard, integrated graphics is also fully sufficient for most users who are not gaming, 3d modeling, or rendering, so if you are not gaming then the integrated graphics is good.

SLI/Crossfire is using 2 GPUs together, SLI is Nvidia and Crossfire is AMD (amd bought out ATI). Not enough games are coded to utilize this and it generally advised to get 1 strong GPU over 2 less strong ones in SLI/Crossfire.

AMD has taken a back seat to PC chips for the last few years and the architecture is just not as efficient. Bassicaly you need a 400 horsepower AMD to be able to match up to a 270 horsepower intel chip.



Your CX430 psu is fine for office and general use but for gaming it is not that great as the capacitors do not hold up well to the draw that gaming puts on it. If you are only pulling 150w from it then no worries, but trying to get 250-300w out of it often will result in failure sooner then latter.


So with all of that said I would get a Intel Core i3 4160, H97 motherboard, 8gb of ram (gskill is good, speed >= 1600 is good), 250gb Samsung EVO SSD drive.
You are really fine for what you listed using integrated graphics, if you really want a dedicated card though then a GTX 750 is about right and should not push that CX-430 too hard to shorten its life.

 

[boosted1g]

Here's a pretty good build that leaves you plenty of money to get a real monitor. Of everything you could possibly upgrade a new monitor might just be the best upgrade you could make, especially productivity wise.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD A10-7850K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($123.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-D3H ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($62.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($48.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($97.98 @ B&H)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro OEM (64-bit) ($131.65 @ OutletPC)
Total: $465.49
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-12 17:41 EDT-0400

The OP is programming not gaming, the A10s only advantage is the stronger integrated graphics, but the CPU is much weaker. An intel i3 will be cheaper, faster, use less power, and less heat

 

[boosted1g]

For your uses, this will be faster then the A10 build. FYI the A10 quad core is not a true quad-core. It is 2 physical cores with similar to intel hyperthreading. So core/thread count is the same as the i3, but the i3 performs better in both single threaded and multi-threaded programs.

If you want more power you can get an i5-4460 for another $60, that is a true quad core.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4160 3.6GHz Dual-Core Processor (£86.69 @ Ebuyer)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£67.16 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£47.99 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£77.00 @ Amazon UK)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 OEM (64-bit) (£75.34 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £354.18
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-12 22:52 BST+0100

 

[boosted1g]

Text based apps? You should be fine with 4gb of ram (or 2x2gb of ram which is dual-chanel speed)

Not so sure about adapters to fit a 2.5 in a 3.5 but it should fit regardless

Best cpu for programming are the Intel i3 or i5 series (i5 is more expensive but is mainly for gamers. I suggest you get i3)
Amd cpus are more affordable, but slightly worse performance than intel
Check if your motherboard is compatible with the above processors first.


There are hdmi monitors available now, just so you know that.

A few other websites to purchase discounted pc parts are; tigerdirect, newegg

He lives in UK so he does not have tigerdirect, but I believe they are getting newegg out there.
Im pretty sure his 11 year old PC is a few sockets behind to be compatible with any current Intel or AMD cpu.

 

[mcnumpty23]

Text based apps? You should be fine with 4gb of ram (or 2x2gb of ram which is dual-chanel speed)

Not so sure about adapters to fit a 2.5 in a 3.5 but it should fit regardless

Best cpu for programming are the Intel i3 or i5 series (i5 is more expensive but is mainly for gamers. I suggest you get i3)
Amd cpus are more affordable, but slightly worse performance than intel
Check if your motherboard is compatible with the above processors first.


There are hdmi monitors available now, just so you know that.

A few other websites to purchase discounted pc parts are; tigerdirect, newegg

He lives in UK so he does not have tigerdirect, but I believe they are getting newegg out there.
Im pretty sure his 11 year old PC is a few sockets behind to be compatible with any current Intel or AMD cpu.

yeah we have newegg here--BUT they ship it from the USA to the uk last time i looked so you get huge shipping charges

and customs on top

no idea why they think anyone would buy from them with that set up--they need to be dispatching from a uk warehouse or they are wasting their time

 

[freeskier93]

Here's a pretty good build that leaves you plenty of money to get a real monitor. Of everything you could possibly upgrade a new monitor might just be the best upgrade you could make, especially productivity wise.

The OP is programming not gaming, the A10s only advantage is the stronger integrated graphics, but the CPU is much weaker. An intel i3 will be cheaper, faster, use less power, and less heat

I am aware that the OP is not gaming, that's not why I chose the A10. He said he prefers AMD so I went with that, and he has a pretty healthy budget so I bumped up to an A10 over and A8. As far as performance either the i3 or A10 would be good choices, but the A10 is not "much weaker", they are both pretty neck and neck and realistically you'd never know the difference for daily tasks.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9287/the-amd-a10-7700k-and-amd-a6-7400k-cpu-review/2

Heat is a fair point.

For your uses, this will be faster then the A10 build. FYI the A10 quad core is not a true quad-core. It is 2 physical cores with similar to intel hyperthreading. So core/thread count is the same as the i3, but the i3 performs better in both single threaded and multi-threaded programs.

If you want more power you can get an i5-4460 for another $60, that is a true quad core.

This is misinformation that needs to stop being spread. An A10 absolutely does have 4 physical integer cores, the difference is 2 integer cores share some resources which AMD calls a module. So AMD's A10 APU is a 2 module 4 core processor. This is NOTHING like Intel Hyperthreading.

 

[lm137]

Wow! Thanks so much everyone. I didn't expect such a response!

And thank you @mcnumpty23, et al. for the point about the integrated graphics. I definitely won't get a dedicated card for now. So nowadays mbs have a graphics port as standard and the graphics chip is integrated into the CPU (like on laptops)? Interesting. Will I still be able to connect an analogue monitor connector?

@boosted1g thank you for the rundown. While I am partial to AMDs and so therefore I would blindly side with @freeskier93, perhaps the lower operating temperature of the Intel chip translates to better reliability? Any reason why an i3 and not an i5 or i7?

 

[lm137]

P.s. Thank you very much @freeskier93 and @boosted1g for the system builds. I will look into these closely.

I should also say that mostly I will remote desktop into this computer (thus Windows Pro) which is why I don't need a better monitor. In fact, I want to keep the old monitor and case so that the computer looks old in case a burglar breaks in! Not that burglars are much interested nowadays in stealing computer towers.

 

[Reyaz123]

i5 is mainly utilized by gamers. i7 is used in gaming too, but mainly for virtualizing PCs, rendering and editing videos (which would need much more CPU power to do)

 

[mcnumpty23]

if the new motherboard cant take a vga connector a dvi to vga adaptor is about £2 off ebay

and i5 if it still keeps you under budget is ok an i7 is a bit like using a hammer to crack a pea nut open for what you want the pc for

and not an AMD or intel fan boy i will buy from who ever has the best product for what i will pay

had my intel cpu now for 4 years and overclocking it up to 5ghz all that time with no reliability issues

so personally i dont favour either vendor when it comes to the cpu reliability

 

[freeskier93]

Wow! Thanks so much everyone. I didn't expect such a response!

And thank you @mcnumpty23, et al. for the point about the integrated graphics. I definitely won't get a dedicated card for now. So nowadays mbs have a graphics port as standard and the graphics chip is integrated into the CPU (like on laptops)? Interesting. Will I still be able to connect an analogue monitor connector?

@boosted1g thank you for the rundown. While I am partial to AMDs and so therefore I would blindly side with @freeskier93, perhaps the lower operating temperature of the Intel chip translates to better reliability? Any reason why an i3 and not an i5 or i7?

Yes, pretty much all consumer motherboards these days have at least an HDMI and DVI port, most still have VGA (what you would be using with an older analog monitor), and some higher end even have display port. All being driven by integrated graphics on the CPU, which have come a very long way in 10 years.

Realistically, for reliability, any chip these days will last a VERY long time. As for i3 vs i5, you certainly have the budget for a nice i5 build, but for what you do an i3 would be more then enough and I personally think you would be better off saving the money and getting a new monitor.

 

[TofuLion]

"server-like" reliability

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4170 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor (£86.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock E3C224D2I Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard (£145.99 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) Registered DDR3-1600 Memory (£70.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£77.50 @ Amazon UK)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 OEM (64-bit) (£111.16 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £492.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-13 00:10 BST+0100

 

[freeskier93]

Actually, here's an i5 build with monitor that's still under your budget

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£142.50 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£82.76 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£42.63 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£77.50 @ Amazon UK)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro OEM (64-bit)
Monitor: BenQ GL2460HM 60Hz 24.0" Monitor (£113.53 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £458.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-13 00:32 BST+0100

 

[mcnumpty23]

Actually, here's an i5 build with monitor that's still under your budget (Sorry about being in dollars).

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($176.98 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($48.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($97.98 @ B&H)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro OEM (64-bit) ($131.69 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: BenQ GL2460HM 60Hz 24.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $705.62
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-12 19:18 EDT-0400

only issue is uk prices are roughly 30--40% more than the usa

for example that 850 evo at 98 dollars is about 63 pounds at todays exchange rate

but to actually buy it here its about 98 pounds not 63

 

[freeskier93]

Actually, here's an i5 build with monitor that's still under your budget (Sorry about being in dollars).

only issue is uk prices are roughly 30--40% more than the usa

for example that 850 evo at 98 dollars is about 63 pounds at todays exchange rate

but to actually buy it here its about 98 pounds not 63

Okay I feel silly, it's really easy to switch the country. I updated my post and it still came in under his 500 pound budget.

 

[mcnumpty23]

Actually, here's an i5 build with monitor that's still under your budget (Sorry about being in dollars).

only issue is uk prices are roughly 30--40% more than the usa

for example that 850 evo at 98 dollars is about 63 pounds at todays exchange rate

but to actually buy it here its about 98 pounds not 63

Okay I feel silly, it's really easy to switch the country. I updated my post and it still came in under his 500 pound budget.

i do it without thinking as well you just tend to look at prices where you live

nice find on that evo at 77.50

 

[sora]

That 70 quid Samsung EVO SSD is definitely worth the money!

 

[lm137]

My apologies freeskier93, I edited one of my posts shortly after posting rather than creating a new one so maybe you missed this...

I should also say that mostly I will remote desktop into this computer (thus Windows Pro) which is why I don't need a better monitor. In fact, I want to keep the old monitor and case so that the computer looks old in case a burglar breaks in! Not that burglars are much interested nowadays in stealing computer towers.

Sorry, I should have mentioned this in the beginning, but my op was long as it was.

Thank you TofuLion for picking up on the reliability point, which I think the above also explains, but the m/b you suggest is not ATX

A few more questions:

Samsung SSD - what is the difference between the EVO and the Pro Series? The Pro Series seems to be more expensive per GB. Does this translate to better reliability and/or speed? I don't mind spending more if that is the case. But I do *not* need "pro" features like encryption if that is the difference.

The old PATA hard drive - can I connect this to a new m/b? If possible I would like to avoid the hassle of backing up on removable media. Also since I will be using the existing case, I won't "have" the old computer to connect with via ethernet (which would have been a nice solution) - I just don't have the space for two computers.

Any problems with old ATX cases and new components? I noticed the cables on the new Corsair PSU where short so I had to move my drives around in the existing set-up (and it was just not possible to connect the historical floppy drive - great tragedy!). Can I expect any similar problems with new components, e.g. screw holes not lining up? It should be ok, since ATX is a standard, correct?

Windows installation - is it easy via USB? I think I might have broken my DVD drive (I will save the story!). However, I guess my old PATA DVD drive wouldn't be compatible anyway, and this would be one of the cheaper components. Any brief recommendation?

Finally... I realise my requirements seem minimal, however, as Windows gets ever more bloated with updates, and applications like FireFox and Thunderbird can't seem to get a grip on memory leaks and eating the CPU, I would like to future-proof it and so I don't mind using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut... to some extent.


P.s. Just picking up on a couple of interesting points

boosted1g...

AMD has taken a back seat to PC chips for the last few years and the architecture is just not as efficient. Bassicaly you need a 400 horsepower AMD to be able to match up to a 270 horsepower intel chip.

That is really interesting since 11 years ago, it seemed to be the other way round with AMD making "XP" processors that apparently did more per MHz than Intel processors. It was claimed that a given speed AMD CPU was equivalent to a fast Intel chip. Unless that is not what is meant by horsepower...

freeskier93...

Yes, pretty much all consumer motherboards these days have at least an HDMI and DVI port, most still have VGA (what you would be using with an older analog monitor), and some higher end even have display port. All being driven by integrated graphics on the CPU, which have come a very long way in 10 years.

A "display port"? Yet another video port!

 

[mcnumpty23]

1) 840 Pro has higher benchmarks - NO BIGGY as in real life You will not see a difference in day-2-day performance.

2) 840 EVO uses 19nm TLC, 840 Pro use MLC and has a higher write cycles rating - No a bigg issue as under normal usage the your still looking at 10+ years of use.

3) Power consumption very close for EVO and Pro ( about the best for SSDs)
... Power consumption really only an issue for laptops.

4) Pro = 6 gigs more space - again depending on space required probably not a biggy.

connecting an ide drive will probably need an adapter card not many boards if any now use ide

surprised your cables were too short but again cable extensions are cheap--yes atx is a standard size

installation via usb is simple--i use yumi to make bootable usb drives never failed me yet unlike some other usb tools

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/

finally--8gb to 16gb of ram should be plenty future proof

yes 10 years ago AMD cpu would have been my choice as well--not now

differences between evo and pro quoted from another forum users post

 

[mcnumpty23]

oh and floppy drives are long obsolete due to how cheap usb flash drives are and how much more they store and that they can be made bootable

i hardly even use a dvd drive never mind a floppy