Upgrading CPU - i7 3770k on a Asus P8Z77-V

[tunda11]

I'm considering buying this CPU/MOBO combo second hand. The guy is asking $300(CDN$). Just wondering if it is a good idea to buy a CPU that is 3 years old technology. He said the items are 2 months old only.

Brand new stuff is going to cost me about $500 and this is gonna save me a bunch of money.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Sounds expensive for 3 generations old technology.... that stuff is at EoL (end of life) and if one dies in 6 months, replacements may soon be close to impossible to find.

4690k is $300 Canadian
MSI / Gigabyte Gaming 5 is about $150

 

[photonboy]

Ignore my last if you saw it...

$300 is not too expensive. I didn't realize what parts now cost in Canada... sigh.

*I have the i7-3770K and did a light clock to 4.2GHz though it definitely can go higher. 4th gen is about 10% more performance than 3rd gen (so at 4.2GHz that's comparable to a 4th gen that Turbos to 3.8GHz).

To get a similar performance (ignoring hyperthreading for now) you need an i5-4590 which I believe Turbos to 3.9GHz. Hyperthreading I've found in the real world mostly useless but can give about 15% time savings for me in Handbrake over being disabled.

Other than features like M.2 SSD support, and worrying about Warranty, from a performance point of view you can't get new 4th gen for that price.

 

[tunda11]

Ignore my last if you saw it...

$300 is not too expensive. I didn't realize what parts now cost in Canada... sigh.

*I have the i7-3770K and did a light clock to 4.2GHz though it definitely can go higher. 4th gen is about 10% more performance than 3rd gen (so at 4.2GHz that's comparable to a 4th gen that Turbos to 3.8GHz).

To get a similar performance (ignoring hyperthreading for now) you need an i5-4590 which I believe Turbos to 3.9GHz. Hyperthreading I've found in the real world mostly useless but can give about 15% time savings for me in Handbrake over being disabled.

Other than features like M.2 SSD support, and worrying about Warranty, from a performance point of view you can't get new 4th gen for that price.

So you're saying that your i7-3770k is holding up pretty good right now? If I'm gonna spend a few hundred dollars I don't want to have to do that again for a while lol. As for the new gen i5 CPUs, do you think it would be better money spent to get one of those? I noticed that they run on DDR4, which I'd have to upgrade to as well. Seems like an expensive ordeal.

 

[photonboy]

Update:

If you can swing a little more, perhaps something more like THIS:

1) i5-4590
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i54590

and

2) https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gah97md3h

That's almost $400 though, plus tax/shipping. No M.2 SSD for that board either i believe.

*So basically a lot of pros and cons. I'm very happy with my i7-3770K, so I'd say as long as you have the WARRANTY and the motherboard for it seems to have good customer feedback I'm going to say go for the i7-3770K.

There's simply nothing comparable unless you add at least $100 (not counting HT).

 

[photonboy]

Ignore my last if you saw it...

$300 is not too expensive. I didn't realize what parts now cost in Canada... sigh.

*I have the i7-3770K and did a light clock to 4.2GHz though it definitely can go higher. 4th gen is about 10% more performance than 3rd gen (so at 4.2GHz that's comparable to a 4th gen that Turbos to 3.8GHz).

To get a similar performance (ignoring hyperthreading for now) you need an i5-4590 which I believe Turbos to 3.9GHz. Hyperthreading I've found in the real world mostly useless but can give about 15% time savings for me in Handbrake over being disabled.

Other than features like M.2 SSD support, and worrying about Warranty, from a performance point of view you can't get new 4th gen for that price.

So you're saying that your i7-3770k is holding up pretty good right now? If I'm gonna spend a few hundred dollars I don't want to have to do that again for a while lol. As for the new gen i5 CPUs, do you think it would be better money spent to get one of those? I noticed that they run on DDR4, which I'd have to upgrade to as well. Seems like an expensive ordeal.

Yes. my i7-3770K is quite adequate.

In fact, the CPU requirement for games that start using DX12 should actually DROP so I expect my i7-3770K to last a long, long time. I think it should last five years nicely. I have a GTX680 graphics card which plays most games at max or near-max, but do plan to replace that with a Pascal (NVidia) end of 2016.

If you lookup "cpu scaling" or just game benchmarks and find CPU's compared then you'll generally find the i7-3770K (or comparable 4th gen) grouped at the top since the bottleneck is usually the GPU.

DX12 games:
Some experts claim that the code can be "50% more efficient" and that "almost 100%" of the CPU can be used. Well, for MOST games I don't see more than 50% of my CPU being used right now. If the code was more efficient right now that would be 25% usage so a lot of CPU potential left over.

Current games often stutter or bottleneck the GPU due to the performance of a SINGLE CORE of your CPU even if the game uses more than this overall.

Long story short is that games can be more demanding but more efficient coding combined with the ability to use the CPU's full performance is why I say my CPU should last a long time.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

My issue relates to two users I had that bought used 1156 systems after 1155 came out. Both had some time later installed Hyper 212's ... one had a burr on a washer and when it was tightened down, it cut into the MoBo traces. Another cracked the MoBo by overtightening. At that point they arrived on my workbench, 1156 MoBos were history and no where to be found.

No while I see no reason to upgrade from 3770k, buying today is a bit risky. If the MoBo dies for example at some point, will you be able to find a reliable source for an 1155 MoBo ? If not, that means:

-Replacing the MoBo with an 1150 socket
-Replacing the CPU with an 1150 compatible model
-Potentially replacing Windows if the MoBo / CPU comes with an OEM copy.

 

[tunda11]

Update:

If you can swing a little more, perhaps something more like THIS:

1) i5-4590
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i54590

and

2) https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gah97md3h

That's almost $400 though, plus tax/shipping. No M.2 SSD for that board either i believe.

*So basically a lot of pros and cons. I'm very happy with my i7-3770K, so I'd say as long as you have the WARRANTY and the motherboard for it seems to have good customer feedback I'm going to say go for the i7-3770K.

There's simply nothing comparable unless you add at least $100 (not counting HT).

I did see some benchmarks for the i7-3770k on Passmark, and they were pretty good. I compared against the i5-6600k. Does the fact that the i7 has 8 threads make it significantly better in any way?

 

[photonboy]

Points:

1) Warranty:
The point above two posts does make sense, but that's why I state the board should have a good Warranty still valid. If not, I'd avoid it.

Motherboard manufacturers are required to have replacement stock, even if they are just refurbished boards. I had two months left on a Gigabyte board last year (3-year warranty) and it was replaced no problem.

2) i7 and 8 threads:
As I tried to explain, the only real advantage is for programs like Handbrake that can make use of it. Possibly for DX12 games. By that I mean DX12 can take advantage of it but the extra threads may not even be needed.

(with only TWO cores it often does make a huge difference for gaming though such as an i3-4170)

*In general, I would recommend anything with an i5-4590 performance or better for high-end gaming and call it a day since for real-world usage they're roughly the same. My main issue would be motherboard Warranty as discussed.

Of course pros and cons with the PRICING as well.

 

[Karadjgne]

Currently running a i5-3570k on an Asus p8z77-v, and an i7-3770k on msi mpower z77, either one has no problems keeping up with any lga 1150/51 in real world activities, and will continue to do so for many years.

You can get brand new lga775 boards on eBay, if you are that attached to your ddr2 and/or c2q, for less than $100, so replacement isn't the issue, its the technology behind it that is. Many of those boards use Pata, USB, Sata 3g, ddr2, IDE at best, not Sata 6G, ddr3/4, pcie x1, USB 3 etc.

LGA1155 and LGA1150 use the same technologies for the most part, are interchangeable when it comes to things like gpu, memory, cpu coolers etc and other than benchmarks, basically perform the same. 10% difference? At 60Hz,thats just 6 fps, and nobody on the planet can visually see the difference between 54fps and 60fps and nobody sits around and complains their 1 hour render took an extra 6 minutes unless they are uber professionals at an exact deadline.

I have a great deal of respect for JackNaylorPE's opinions and facts, but there is a big difference in availability of LGA1155 and LGA1156 parts, and until Intel takes a very large performance step again, such as the difference between lga775 and lga1155/56, anything in between is going to be roughly the same.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Again, I would never suggest upgrading from a 3770k build as the performance difference is negligible. As i said both times, performance is not in the evaluation equation.

I have a 2600k, twin 560 Ti build that is till going strong and see no reason to replace it.... I wouldn't invest in any of those parts today tho. If MoBo / CPU died, I'd move to a new MoBo / CPU combo rather than invest time, effort and money in replacing either..

However performance between 3770k and current CPUs can range from negligible to 100% or so depending in the game and whether we're talking IGP, AMD or nVidia cards

On Grid AutoSport, 1080p per anadtech performance goes from / to ....

min fps frpm 14 to 28 fps on IGP
avg fps from 81 to 109 fps on 290x

However, from a financial investment standpoint, it's just hard to justify. Look at any review for a new MoBo generation ... the difference say between Z87 and Z97 and invariably they will state that 1) If you have a Z87, there is no reason to upgrade .... but 2) if you are buying today, they invariably recommend going with the newer technology....and that's when the technology is still current. Not after reaching EoL.

Have you ever tried getting TS from Asus when not original owner and no original receipt ? I gotta wonder about the "two months" thing as I haven't seen Z77 boards on the major sites for quite some time. Who was stocking Z77 boards and 3770ks 2 months ago ?

The 3770k is 3.5 years old.

How many Z77 boards can you find on newegg ? One... an Asrock and an open box Asrock same model. So if the MoBo dies, what are your options ?

-Buy the Asrock and a new copy of Windows.
-Try and find an identical MoBo on ebay and deal with the risks associated therewith.
-Buy a new MoBo, new CPU and new OS

As photonboy said, I'd wanna see the original receipt; MoBo manufacturers have to provide replacements but they do NOT have to be exact same model. I have had top tier GFX cards replaced with new generation 3rd tier models which offered equal performance. I had an 1156 board replaced with an 1155 board; they didn't pay for the required new CPU tho.

That model board is 3.5 years old and it was made for about a year. So at best, it has 6 months of warranty coverage left in it unless you have an original purchase receipt in your name. Even then, Asus may not honor it if you re not the original owner and the manufacturing date is 3 years old.

$300 seems attractive as compared to $500 ($450 actually) but not if you wind up spending that $450 anyway + a new copy of Windows, 6 months from now. I just retired a 2600k build and wouldn't have the heart to charge someone for it. I kept the HD, DVD and GFX card and gave away case , MoBo, CPU, Cooler for half a pizza. I brought over the stuff to his house, we installed his GPU and accessories, and I got free dinner. That's about what I felt it was worth. For a 3770k, I would asked for a Corona on top of the pizza All kidding aside, paying 2/3 of current generation equivalent costs for 3.5 year old technology is a good deal only for the seller.

 

[Karadjgne]

Lol, hope it was at least a quality pizza, not a hot-n-ready little sleazers and I agree with most of what you are saying. For me, the MSI board was an eBay bought replacement because my p8z77-v was at Asus for RMA, and I needed a board Pronto, the 3770k was bought eBay just a month ago because I had the Asus now laying around collecting dust. Grand total for both msi mpower z77 and 3770k was $160, so I can't complain (neither can my wife hah!) I guess it's just a matter of justification, older cheaper tech that's still solid performance or newer more expensive tech that's got some piece of mind. With my budget, I went older, and had enough left over for a gtx970, if I'd gone newer, I'd have had enough for a 750ti... No brainer there.

 

[photonboy]

Lol, hope it was at least a quality pizza, not a hot-n-ready little sleazers and I agree with most of what you are saying. For me, the MSI board was an eBay bought replacement because my p8z77-v was at Asus for RMA, and I needed a board Pronto, the 3770k was bought eBay just a month ago because I had the Asus now laying around collecting dust. Grand total for both msi mpower z77 and 3770k was $160, so I can't complain (neither can my wife hah!) I guess it's just a matter of justification, older cheaper tech that's still solid performance or newer more expensive tech that's got some piece of mind. With my budget, I went older, and had enough left over for a gtx970, if I'd gone newer, I'd have had enough for a 750ti... No brainer there.

For you that makes sense... good deal.

If it's about $300 and questionable, limited or even NO warranty compared to say $450 brand new with three-year warranty it's very difficult for me to recommend the used solution.

(If I understand correctly then motherboard warranties are tied to MANUFACTURING DATE and nothing else so I'd be surprised if a warranty was even possible. What happens if it dies in a month?)

Anyway, I think this post has exhausted the discussion.

 

[Karadjgne]

Nahhh, I think it's actually a decent thread, more for discussion than answer now, because the pros and cons are so even, it takes something off kilter like my situation, to have a clear choice. And I do gotta throw out there that I love it when Jack goes on his 1/2 page rants, I learn all sorts of new things or at the very least get straightened out about stuff I thought I knew.

What it really boils down to is budget. Since performance is basically the same, tech the same, etc, if on a definite capped budget, the older stuff is more bang for the buck. If the budget is stretchable, or pieces can be gotten piecemeal, the newer stuff would be better. Imho anyways.