[SOLVED] Upgrading for VR, 2 possible paths - advice needed

foxhound525

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Mar 14, 2020
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So I've been flip-flopping on this topic for a while now, I'm in a position where in the next few months I could either do a completely new pc build (but using my old HDDs/SSDs and graphics card) or buy a new graphics card. Which ever way I go, it will probably be another 6-12 months before the other option becomes possible again.

My primary reasons to upgrade are pretty much exclusively for VR. I have a 1080p monitor, and that's fine, but on a valve index I need far more graphical horsepower, especially for games like Fallout 4 VR where the assets are for pancake games. I am aware that the GPU will typically be the bottleneck at VR resolutions, but my system is somewhat aged and I'm concerned that even with a 3080, my CPU and DDR3 bandwidth might seriously limit any gains. Using FO4VR as my reference though (which is a CPU heavy game), my gpu is maxed out constantly whereas my cpu will generally be around 60-80%.

Current hardware;
AMD FX8370 overclocked to 4.2ghz
Biostar TA970 plus v5 (lousy VRMs...)
GTX1060 6GB (actually one card below recommended for Fallout4 VR apparently)
2x 8GB DDR3 RAM (XMP 1600 Mhz)

If I did a new system build I'd do it with the intention of not upgrading much for the next 5-8 years, so it'd be pricey and I'd be looking at;

AMD 3800x or 5800x (or 5700x if that becomes a thing)
MSI x570 MAG tomahawk (for overclocking later in system life cycle if needed)
Corsair LPX 2x 8GB 3600mhz
Phantek p500a case
PCIe usb 2.0 expansion card for win7 support (7 is on my secondary SSD)
USB DVD RW drive

I had planned this new build for the last month or so before thinking it might be wiser to wait for a larger VRAM variant of the 3080 to come out (10gb can be exceeded with modded FO4/Skyrim textures) and get that first, then if and when I need to I could do a new system after, maybe even wait for AM5 to come so I'm not buying in to a platform at the end of it's life cycle again as I did with my FX build.

Mod Edit for Language
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 11, 2020
9
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Depends on the games you are running. I’m an iracing guy and here’s my setup and findings.

both cpu and gpu make a huge difference. Huge ... again because iracing.

for all types of games and future proofing I would invest in the best gpu I can afford. Or save money for an awesome gpu ..3080 is worth it.


I upgraded from 1080to to 2080ti and that was my first upgrade with the i7 and it allowed me to use the reverb on low settings at 90 to high settings at 90fps. Big jump in quality and performance.


When I upgraded the processor I was able to run even higher settings. I had no clue it would help this much, but it did and surpassed my expectations. Keep in mind everyone was telling me it would be marginal moving from the 8770k to the 10850k or whatever the I9 I upgraded to (10450k?)


Overall you really can’t skimp on either. especially with the newer headsets coming out. Trust me you will jump on the g2 reverb when you realize the night and day difference between it and the index and etc

In 2-3 more years we’ll have 4K headsets within each and by then we’ll have 5 or 4 series cards that are even more VR specific.

I would buy the best gpu first I can afford and then upgrade my moboard and cpu with ram. Your current gpu won’t do the trick.

you want FPS in VR. Makes a huge difference in experience . You will not notice it until you go from 60 FPS to 90. But you will realize what you were missing out on when you do.

I would also go with nvidia because their cards are more feature rich for vr. Especially since they have a much larger budget, user base, rd, and etc

Game creators will also keep in mind nvidia features and build them into their engines as they build new games for VR.

I can’t see them doing the same for the red headed step child :)
 
So I've been flip-flopping on this topic for a while now, I'm in a position where in the next few months I could either do a completely new pc build (but using my old HDDs/SSDs and graphics card) or buy a new graphics card. Which ever way I go, it will probably be another 6-12 months before the other option becomes possible again.

My primary reasons to upgrade are pretty much exclusively for VR. I have a 1080p monitor, and that's fine, but on a valve index I need far more graphical horsepower, especially for games like Fallout 4 VR where the assets are for pancake games. I am aware that the GPU will typically be the bottleneck at VR resolutions, but my system is somewhat aged and I'm concerned that even with a 3080, my CPU and DDR3 bandwidth might seriously limit any gains. Using FO4VR as my reference though (which is a CPU heavy game), my gpu is maxed out constantly whereas my cpu will generally be around 60-80%.

Current hardware;
AMD FX8370 overclocked to 4.2ghz
Biostar TA970 plus v5 (lousy VRMs...)
GTX1060 6GB (actually one card below recommended for Fallout4 VR apparently)
2x 8GB DDR3 RAM (XMP 1600 Mhz)

If I did a new system build I'd do it with the intention of not upgrading much for the next 5-8 years, so it'd be pricey and I'd be looking at;

AMD 3800x or 5800x (or 5700x if that becomes a thing)
MSI x570 MAG tomahawk (for overclocking later in system life cycle if needed)
Corsair LPX 2x 8GB 3600mhz
Phantek p500a case
PCIe usb 2.0 expansion card for win7 support (7 is on my secondary SSD)
USB DVD RW drive

I had planned this new build for the last month or so before thinking it might be wiser to wait for a larger VRAM variant of the 3080 to come out (10gb can be exceeded with modded FO4/Skyrim textures) and get that first, then if and when I need to I could do a new system after, maybe even wait for AM5 to come so I'm not buying in to a platform at the end of it's life cycle again as I did with my FX build.

Mod Edit for Language
You will without a doubt bottleneck on the CPU.
 
Sep 13, 2020
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Build a new pc and get a modest gpu and save up for a better one . I ran vr on an fx cpu and nothing good comes from it, It will work but it will stutter like hell.
You may have a better time running vr on your old gpu and a new ryzen cpu then a better gpu bottlenecked by that fx cpu.
 

foxhound525

Prominent
Mar 14, 2020
50
2
535
0
Build a new pc and get a modest gpu and save up for a better one . I ran vr on an fx cpu and nothing good comes from it, It will work but it will stutter like hell.
You may have a better time running vr on your old gpu and a new ryzen cpu then a better gpu bottlenecked by that fx cpu.
That's interesting as I run FX VR now and don't get stuttering (except in FO4 VR). I used to get stuttering when my RAM was in single channel, but not since fixing that.
 
Nov 11, 2020
9
1
20
1
Depends on the games you are running. I’m an iracing guy and here’s my setup and findings.

both cpu and gpu make a huge difference. Huge ... again because iracing.

for all types of games and future proofing I would invest in the best gpu I can afford. Or save money for an awesome gpu ..3080 is worth it.


I upgraded from 1080to to 2080ti and that was my first upgrade with the i7 and it allowed me to use the reverb on low settings at 90 to high settings at 90fps. Big jump in quality and performance.


When I upgraded the processor I was able to run even higher settings. I had no clue it would help this much, but it did and surpassed my expectations. Keep in mind everyone was telling me it would be marginal moving from the 8770k to the 10850k or whatever the I9 I upgraded to (10450k?)


Overall you really can’t skimp on either. especially with the newer headsets coming out. Trust me you will jump on the g2 reverb when you realize the night and day difference between it and the index and etc

In 2-3 more years we’ll have 4K headsets within each and by then we’ll have 5 or 4 series cards that are even more VR specific.

I would buy the best gpu first I can afford and then upgrade my moboard and cpu with ram. Your current gpu won’t do the trick.

you want FPS in VR. Makes a huge difference in experience . You will not notice it until you go from 60 FPS to 90. But you will realize what you were missing out on when you do.

I would also go with nvidia because their cards are more feature rich for vr. Especially since they have a much larger budget, user base, rd, and etc

Game creators will also keep in mind nvidia features and build them into their engines as they build new games for VR.

I can’t see them doing the same for the red headed step child :)
 

foxhound525

Prominent
Mar 14, 2020
50
2
535
0
Depends on the games you are running. I’m an iracing guy and here’s my setup and findings.

both cpu and gpu make a huge difference. Huge ... again because iracing.

for all types of games and future proofing I would invest in the best gpu I can afford. Or save money for an awesome gpu ..3080 is worth it.


I upgraded from 1080to to 2080ti and that was my first upgrade with the i7 and it allowed me to use the reverb on low settings at 90 to high settings at 90fps. Big jump in quality and performance.


When I upgraded the processor I was able to run even higher settings. I had no clue it would help this much, but it did and surpassed my expectations. Keep in mind everyone was telling me it would be marginal moving from the 8770k to the 10850k or whatever the I9 I upgraded to (10450k?)


Overall you really can’t skimp on either. especially with the newer headsets coming out. Trust me you will jump on the g2 reverb when you realize the night and day difference between it and the index and etc

In 2-3 more years we’ll have 4K headsets within each and by then we’ll have 5 or 4 series cards that are even more VR specific.

I would buy the best gpu first I can afford and then upgrade my moboard and cpu with ram. Your current gpu won’t do the trick.

you want FPS in VR. Makes a huge difference in experience . You will not notice it until you go from 60 FPS to 90. But you will realize what you were missing out on when you do.

I would also go with nvidia because their cards are more feature rich for vr. Especially since they have a much larger budget, user base, rd, and etc

Game creators will also keep in mind nvidia features and build them into their engines as they build new games for VR.

I can’t see them doing the same for the red headed step child :)
Yeah this is pretty much what I've come to understand.

I'm actually considering going amd though, 6800xt or; if the exchange rate is actually used instead of being the same number in pounds, the 6900xt. Dependent on benchmarks, but the picture we're being painted is that the 6800xt and 6900xt have more raw rasterisation power more often than not, and it has significantly more VRAM on both, which I think will only become more important as time goes on. And as AMD is using PC components for both consoles, this might be a time where consoles actually help the PC market, or AMD more specifically as most consoles are already running Zen 2 and Radeon.

There really aren't any features on nvidia's side that are used in VR, and AMD has open source alternatives to all of them which I much prefer over proprietry stuff more likely to be killed off cough 3dvision cough. The quality of the AMD options remains to be seen, but the only downsides to AMD at the moment seem to be unknown stuff (with the DLSS alternative be any good, have they sorted the drivers out) and slightly worse raytracing performance, which won't be in VR for a very long time unless something radically changes soon.

Also I really don't get the G2 or the hype. It's a WMR device with horrible controllers and crappy camera tracking. The only good things about it are the resolution bump, and all the stuff that's already on the index like the sound. Yeah I want higher res, but not at the expense of literally everything else!
 
Nov 11, 2020
9
1
20
1
Yeah this is pretty much what I've come to understand.

I'm actually considering going amd though, 6800xt or; if the exchange rate is actually used instead of being the same number in pounds, the 6900xt. Dependent on benchmarks, but the picture we're being painted is that the 6800xt and 6900xt have more raw rasterisation power more often than not, and it has significantly more VRAM on both, which I think will only become more important as time goes on. And as AMD is using PC components for both consoles, this might be a time where consoles actually help the PC market, or AMD more specifically as most consoles are already running Zen 2 and Radeon.

There really aren't any features on nvidia's side that are used in VR, and AMD has open source alternatives to all of them which I much prefer over proprietry stuff more likely to be killed off cough 3dvision cough. The quality of the AMD options remains to be seen, but the only downsides to AMD at the moment seem to be unknown stuff (with the DLSS alternative be any good, have they sorted the drivers out) and slightly worse raytracing performance, which won't be in VR for a very long time unless something radically changes soon.

Also I really don't get the G2 or the hype. It's a WMR device with horrible controllers and crappy camera tracking. The only good things about it are the resolution bump, and all the stuff that's already on the index like the sound. Yeah I want higher res, but not at the expense of literally everything else!

Well it’s all dependent upon how you use VR. I sit in a sim racing setup with a direct drive wheel. I don’t even use the controllers.

I used to play other VR games though and can tell you I would take the higher resolution any day. It’s just that much better. I had the index and it was blurry and controllers were great, but I couldn’t get over how blurry it was compared to the reverb.

the g2 is much better . You should check it out. You can use knuckles and index base stations. There’s no reason to use the index anymore. 90hz is plenty and I didn’t notice a difference with a higher hz on the index while racing unfortunately.

What have you tried so far? I’ve had numerous headsets and so far that’s my synopsis above.

now that I can use knuckles I will be much happier and start checking out other titles. Yes you are correct the other controllers are <Mod Edit>.

you are correct that most titles for VR aren’t very advanced and we have a couple years before we can use that as a deciding factor. I hope they make it happen faster because it will help a. Ton with quality and performance.
 
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foxhound525

Prominent
Mar 14, 2020
50
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535
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Well it’s all dependent upon how you use VR. I sit in a sim racing setup with a direct drive wheel. I don’t even use the controllers.

I used to play other VR games though and can tell you I would take the higher resolution any day. It’s just that much better. I had the index and it was blurry and controllers were great, but I couldn’t get over how blurry it was compared to the reverb.

the g2 is much better . You should check it out. You can use knuckles and index base stations. There’s no reason to use the index anymore. 90hz is plenty and I didn’t notice a difference with a higher hz on the index while racing unfortunately.

What have you tried so far? I’ve had numerous headsets and so far that’s my synopsis above.

now that I can use knuckles I will be much happier and start checking out other titles. Yes you are correct the other controllers are <Mod Edit>.

you are correct that most titles for VR aren’t very advanced and we have a couple years before we can use that as a deciding factor. I hope they make it happen faster because it will help a. Ton with quality and performance.
Ah yeah I guess the G2 makes sense in your case. I have no issues with the HMD itself (other than it not being tracked by base stations), but the rest of the package is a dealbreaker for me. As far as I know there is no native support for laser tracking? Its camera tracking so how are you using knuckles?

I do agree that the index is still a bit blurry, I was honestly expecting complete clarity when I bought it, but its good enough that I don't feel the need to compromise the rest of the setup to increase resolution. Unlike my vive which was really not a good long term choice. I've only used the vive and index but I've heard a lot about camera tracking causing random controller drifts and basically being unusable for FPS games (which are the bulk of VR games) as trying to aim down sights will just cause tracking to drift due to camera occlusion.

DLSS 2.1 technically supports VR, but you have to use a beta branch of unreal, and there's a lot of restrictions and licencing issues imposed by using that branch that apparently makes it very unattractive to most VR devs. So I think we may actually be more likely to see widespread use of the AMD alternative (if it works) as that will be open source.
 

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