Upgrading my GeForce 8200 to a GTS 450

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tonybruce

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Aug 28, 2011
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So I am currently sporting a GeForce 8200 and want to upgrade to a GTS 450. I have been doing research and found that the 8200 is an mGPU. So if I get a GTS 450 would I be able to install it in a PCI normally or will that interfere with the GPU. I am just getting started in my computer nerdiness so I appreciate the help thanks!

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5800+
Graphics: GeForce 8200
PSU: ATX Switching 450W, 12V, 25A
Memory: 4 GB DDR2
 
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I will only comment to Tonybruce:

Tonybruce,
If my comment above makes sense then I can help further. The main difficulty is deciding what CPU would not bottleneck a particular graphics card. If you spent $300 on the CPU and Graphics, for example the split should likely be $120 CPU and $180 but that's a rough estimate and doesn't factor the Power Supply.

I think you'll find the cost easily jump over $400 so I can't help further unless you make a decision based on my above comment.
 
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What I ended up doing was getting a Phenom II X3 720. My friend was giving me a Geforce GTS 450 so thats why I started this thread I just wanted to make sure I would be able to use that graphics card. I am very glad you guys told me that I needed a CPU upgrade and the phenom I was able to find pretty cheaply. My next goal will be to upgrade my mobo since it cannot support cpus higher than the phenom II. I have a couple extra case fans installed so I am wondering whether I should try overclocking the phenom 720.

I suppose my main question is, will I have issues with bottlenecking with this combination? (phenom II X3 720 and Geforce GTS 450)
 
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Also to answer some questions about the games I want to play:

Batman Arkham City
Deus Ex: HR
Fallout
Borderlands (2)
The Old Republic
Diablo 3

I understand I wont have optimal graphics but I have no problem turning down textures and shadows. Ive been playing off a laptop for the last 4 years so Im used to subpar graphics
 
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PhysX:

Don't use PhysX. It will lower your framerate so you'd have to choose between PhysX or lowering other game settings to keep a playable frame rate.

The only time that I would use PhysX would be if enabling it did not drop me below 60FPS (my screen limit which is synched with VSYNC to avoid screen tearing.)

If you want to see the difference try running the Mafia 2 demo and observer frame rates with PhysX on and off and the benefits offered. There is a BENCHMARK MODE.

And again, you'll really need to tweak with your settings such as:
- screen resolution
- AA
- Shadows
- Bloom

Basically, if you can't max out a game you should run FRAPS to assist you and look at the frame rates and screen quality. Most shooters and action games should be 40+ FPS. Some games look fine at only 30FPS.

Games you mentioned:
Most of those games run quite well overall. Batman AA in particular is well coded. If you don't have an XBox 360 controller for PC I'd definitely get one for it and a few other games. You may wish to consider the WIRED version as its cheaper and the wireless version receiver is highly prone to failure (and can't be purchased separately). I got the Logitech F710 wireless but it has a few issues and I'd rather have the wired XBox 360 controller instead.

Good luck, and have fun!
 
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physx is still running as it is the physics in the game. It is not like there is a choice between physx or havoc for the same game as that is a lot of work for the programmers on top of the company having to purchase the license to use havoc. The only thing that changes when you hit the idiot option thinking that it is off when it is still actually running but with a very much reduced setting allowing for the perception of increased performance.
 
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PhysX:
I can't speak for every game, but several have different levels of PhysX which tax the GPU differing amounts.

In other words "HIGH" PhysX will cause more physics calculations but a lower frame rate than "LOW" PhysX.

Now it's possible that "OFF" really means "LOW" but the bottom line is that you have to choose between better PhysX and higher frame rates (or graphics quality) and there's very few people I know that would sacrifice visual quality for better PhysX.

So, I restate that I recommend people that can't get a full 60FPS VSYNC'd should turn PhysX "OFF" if possible.
 
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"Eyefinity with 6870 paired physX with GTS 250"

NVidia doesn't support PhysX if a non-NVidia card is found in your system. You'd need to have hacked NVidia drivers for this to work.

"decent dedicated card for a physX set-up leaves no worries.."

Actually, that's not true. They tested many different combinations of cards specifically to test this and discovered that in almost EVERY case the frame rate was LOWER with a dedicated card than it was using the single card.

The ONLY exception they found in this test was pairing a GTX580 with a GTX570 (570 as the dedicated PhysX card) and who would do that?

So the dedicated PhysX card in reality appears not to work.

PhysX and Batman AA:
I tried three games, including Batman AA to conduct an experiment. NVidia claims that for those people without NVidia cards that PhysX will work on the CPU (but at a limited number of calculations).

Here's the odd thing:
In every game I tried enabling PhysX on, my frame rates dropped massively and were unplayable (I got 11FPS average in Batman AA instead of 165FPS).

However, none of my CPU cores were at 100%!!

How is it possible that my frame rate drops if my graphics card (HD5870) is unused for PhysX and my CPU isn't the bottleneck either?

The only answer that made sense was that NVidia somehow had things coded to do that. I don't know how, but those are the facts.
 
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Interesting PhysX video about dedicted graphics card:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbww3dhzK0M

Video highlights:
1. GTX580 (by itself) 49.7FPS
2. GTX580 + GTX560Ti 55.3FPS

That is 11% faster with the GTX560Ti, which is still a pretty powerful card so that's not a huge benefit.

In the video we see the 8600GT (I think) actually LOWERED the frame rate to around 30FPS.

So frame rates CAN be increased, but be sure to run a couple benchmarks to be sure you aren't lowering your frame rate. And of course there's the extra noise and heat..
 
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This thread sure does like to loose track of the topic lol. OP stick an aftermarket heatsink before overclocking, extra case fans are good but really you want a better then stock cooler.

Also i read a little about unlocking cpu's before but never done it, sounds cool though you should try it out see if your cpu will let you.

@hybrid physX debate, i read in some posts the nvidia card needs to be a gts 250 or better before it's worthwhile. This is why I'm not attempting it with my old 8600gts lol.
 
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its actually not that hard to have an AMD/ATI card and have a secondary dedicated PPI, greghome probably means that he has an intel proessor and an AMD/ATI graphics card.

[EDIT]: yeah he does his rig:

Little Greg: Core i5-2500@3.5ghz,8GB 1333mhz, MSI P67A-C45,Radeon HD6950 1GB,Total 3TB WD Cav Green, Xigmatek NRP-PC602

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1987576

Laptop: Athlonx2 QL62, 4GB ddr2, 320GB HDD, Radeon HD3200
Click to expand...
 
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I bought a heatsink off of newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

My budget is very limited at the moment since tuition just took a huge chunk out of my wallet. I know this isnt top notch in terms of cooling but would this heatsink allow a 16X multiplier in the Phenom 720? I want to try and push it to 3.2 GHz, but Ill most likely have to wait until I physically try it and run Prime95
 
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the heatsink and the hyper 212+ are excellent moves amigo....
I'd say your ready to have some fun when the hardware gets here...
I forgot, what's the PSU again.?
are you staying with that 450-watt or have you already upgraded, I do not remember sorry.
Click to expand...

Im staying with the 450W for now, I dont think I will have a problem for now as I was reading that I can overclock the cpu up to 16X without an increase in voltage so ill leave it at that. Im looking into getting a new PSU in the next month or so though.

Would it be safe to unlock and overclock? Or should I choose my poison?
 
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Just an update I decided to go all out and upgrade everything since this is my first computer and all.

My system now has:
Phenom II X3 720 BE
MB ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX AM3+ Mobo
8 GB of DDR3
Powercooler Radeon HD 6850 Graphics card
Hyper 212+ Cooler
PSU CORSAIR 750W

I think I am going to wait until the Bulldozer comes out before I upgrade my phenom. Until then I am overclocking at 3.2 GHz and very very happy. Thanks for all the help again
 
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tonybruce,

There's a really great tool called RadeonPro which I use for several games to do things, if unsupported in the game:
1) VSYNC
2) Anti-Aliasing

VSYNC is only important if you can run the game above 60FPS so it is in synch with the monitor (avoid screen tearing). It also prevents unneeded frame creation since your monitor likely can only display 60FPS (60Hz) but this is mostly a non-issue for your computer except for older games.

I don't think any of the games you mentioned require this (I first thought you meant the older game "Star Wars the Old Republic" but you likely mean the new MMO. The old SWTOR benefit from forced AA I believe.

Here's an example of an older but still great game:
Deus Ex
(I enabled 8xAA via RadeonPro and I think I also forced VSYNC)

Witcher 1:
I got this working with ATITrayTools as RadeonPro did not work for this game. I also could not get Star Wars The Force Unleashed 1 and 2 to work with AA or VSYNC properly (not a huge loss).

Double VSYNC:
This may benefit you. Some games are capable of running at 30FPS but with VSYNC enabled (again no screen tearing). An ideal candidate for this is a game that runs in the 30's or 40 FPS range. It's a matter of trying it ON or OFF and deciding which you like better. The frame rate should show 30FPS most of the time so you know it is working (don't need FRAPS if using RadeonPro with FPS showing).

Batman AA:
This game is well coded and should run great on your system. If you have the option of enabling PhysX then do NOT do it. My game on an HD5870 went from average 165FPS to 11FPS (yep 165 to 11).

Good luck!
 
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XBox 360 controller:

I should add that Batman AA really needs an XBox 360 PC controller. I had a wired one and the USB receiver failed. I then found out this was relatively common and also that I had to replace the enter controller+receiver as they stopped making individual receivers (WHAT?).

I then got a Logitech F710 which was okay with great battery life but I preferred the XBox controller. I discovered that Vibration wasn't working about 90% of the time. I reinstalled Windows 7 64-bit (for a different reason) and now my Logitech F710 wouldn't install. I had to "force" it to work with Microsoft's XBox 360 drivers not Logitech's. Now it's the same, but the Vibration still does not work properly.

My advice is this:
Get a WIRED, Microsoft XBox 360 controller for the PC for about $30.
 
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XBox 360 controller summary:

1) It's easy to accidentally get the incorrect wireless version. You need the "PC" version which has a USB receiver.

2) This USB receiver has a relatively high failure rate and replacing the $60 to $75 set of Controller + Receiver is the only option.

3) The XBox 360 controllers are the SAME as the XBox 360's and fully compatible. The only difference is the USB receiver needed for the wireless version to work with the PC.

4) I recommend getting ONLY the official XBox 360 controller (wired or wireless).

5) PS3 controller?
- The button's don't have the same icons so when a game says press "BLUE X" what will you do?
- I dislike the placement of the thumb sticks. I find the XBox 360's give me better control overall.
- I'm not even sure it's fully compatible.

6) Wireless version: I think it's better to get your own rechargeable batteries and charger. I got an Eneloop kit on sale at NCIX for cheap with 4xAA
s. If I needed to put new batteries in, I paused the game swapped in the 2xAA's I had charged and put the old ones in a charger (four hours to charge).

Summary:
Consider the WIRED, XBox 360 controller.
(Fully compatible, cheaper than wireless, cheaper again with no batteries, and again the USB receiver for the wireless version is known to fail requiring you to spend up to $80 with shipping/tax for a new set.)
 
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