Upgrading Old (But Good) PC for Gaming

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DrCeeVee

DrCeeVee

Commendable
Aug 6, 2016
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Hi to everyone at Tom's Hardware. This is my very first post, but I've been lurking and reading the articles and forums for years, and have solved many problems from your posts. Many thanks to everyone at TH for all your help!

My main PC is now old... Very old... But it was one of the fastest available when I built it back in 2008. I think I paid more than 2500 € for it back then, and added a few more things along the way. It's still my main PC and it's still very fast and a pleasure to work with, using productivity s/w such as MS Office, Photoshop, MATLAB, CorelDRAW, etc. Absolutely no problems whatsoever there. Here's what I have (photos below):

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 (overclocked to 3.4 GHz)
Mobo: ASUS Rampage Formula
Chipset: X48 (FSB overclocked to 425 MHz)
RAM: G.Skill 8 GB DDR2 (@ 1066 MHz)
GPU: Two ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512 MB each) in CrossFire
Main Storage: 512 GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD (connected to a SATA II port @ 3 Gb/s)
Aux Storage: 4 conventional HDDs (more than 10 TB in total)
Power: Cooler Master 1 kW (1000 W) modular PSU
Monitor: Samsung 26" (1920 x 1200) connected via DVI

It's a beautiful, ultra-stable and blazing-fast system for all my productivity needs, and I really enjoy using it. In fact, I haven't yet used a machine that feels faster than mine.

Now comes gaming... I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I enjoy playing adventure games like the Myst series, Half-Life, Portal/Portal 2 (probably the best game I've ever played), the more recent The Talos Principle, and similar games that use real-time 3D engines like Unreal and Unity. During the last couple of years I'm beginning to notice that my PC is struggling to keep up with the games' demands. For example, I've recently played Dreamfall Chapters (up to Book 4) and found that the frame rate was not so good at 1920 x 1200, and I had to reduce the quality to medium or low for it to be playable.

Question to the PC gaming gurus: Will I be able to extend the life of my PC for gaming by a few more years if I upgrade it to a very good graphics card? Is it worth it? Or the only way is to build a brand new PC from scratch? I was thinking that I could buy a very good graphics card now, and make the PC usable for my gaming needs for 2-3 more years. I don't want to play demanding games like Crysis etc., just want to give the graphics h/w a very good boost from my current 2 x HD 4850 setup. What do you guys think? Also, can you please recommend me a few good choices of suitable graphics cards to consider? I don't mind paying up to 500+ € for a graphics card if the result is worth it. If I remove my two HD 4850 cards I will be left with two x16 full-size (x16 speed) PCIe slots, and the 1 kW PSU should have plenty of juice to feed any card(s) I put there. Also, I've been using ATI/AMD graphics cards since 2008 and have not had any problems whatsoever with them, so I tend to favor the AMD camp, but if you think that NVIDIA is a better choice for my needs, then that's fine.

Sorry for the MAMMOTH-sized post and many thanks for any replies. Tell me what I need to buy to make my PC gaming good again.

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honestly, I'd upgrade to a new socket, get a 1151 board + CPU + DDR4 RAM
that way you can make full use of your SSD (SataIII) and get a better overall performance as your CPU is kinda outdated
case, PSU, fans, maybe CPU cooler seem salvageable, congratulations that is a neat shop you're keeping, very clean case.

as for the GPUs I got actually no idea how good CF 4850s perform, but from the VRAM I guess an upgrade should do much. depending on your needs and budget it doesn't have to be a 500$ card, but a modern 300$ card will do

what's your budget?
 
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Hi again guys, thanks for the replies. Changing the mobo and CPU is a possibility, but I worry about the hassle and difficulty in dismantling it all and putting it back together with the new components. Everything is so neat and tidy now... Also, the PC is lightning-fast in everyday productivity stuff. Why waste it? Lastly, I'm not a frequent gamer, just the occasional adventure game every now and then, just want to improve the performance to playable levels in Full HD.

I'm more inclined towards Samer1970's suggestion of buying just a new graphics card and be done with it. Remove old cards, add new card, install drivers, all done (hopefully). Sounds cleaner, easier and cheaper to me (with its compromises, of course). About the new graphics card, I'm leaning towards the new Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8 GB, which is a brand I trust (my two HD 4850 cards were Sapphire-branded and lasted for 8 years of non-stop use and still going strong), and I'm staying in the AMD camp (also no problems at all and very satisfied).

So, how about just adding a Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8 GB to my existing system? Poor choice? Worth it? What do you think?
 
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if you want the RX 480 , Avoid the Nitro and get

MSI Gaming X RX 480

it is more silent

The Nitros are noisier

but I still Prefer the GTX 1060

I wouldnt upgrade in your case , your system is fine .

If you want fast SSD , you can get PCI express 4x SSD card and enjoy the speed , you wont need that other slot for another GPU anymore
 
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Many thanks again Samer1970.

I'm glad you also agree that I should keep the rest of my system, it really is a very good system, almost lag-free on everyday things, would be a waste to retire it. I think I will probably go for what you're suggesting (either the RX 480 or the GTX 1060, need to read more on the 1060). Your suggestion about putting an SSD controller on the second slot is great, I definitely won't be needing that slot for anything else. And the good thing is that both PCIe slots are x16 full-speed (the mobo was very good/expensive at that time and it now pays me back with those good specs).
 
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I will Check if the intel 750 PCIEx4 NVME works with your system or not , it is the best you can get at affordable price , need to research if NVME works on your old Motherboard or not . give me a sec ..

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/solid-state-drives-750-series.html



 
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Many thanks Isokolon for your replies too, and thanks for the kind words about my system, it's so neat & tidy, isn't it? I really like it when I see the opened case. I built it myself.

Glad you like my choice, I've been using those Radeons for 8 years without any issues, that's why I'm biased towards AMD/Sapphire. Will read as much as I can about my options. There's the new Obduction game that's coming out soon (I was a backer of that game on KickStarter), and would like to have my system ready to enjoy it.

Thanks again to all replies, you guys are great!
 
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Excellent, thanks, will keep that in mind for my next purchase.
Glad to see that my good old PC still has life in it!
 
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update : nvme ssd needs new bios to boot , older motherboards dont have bios update for nvme , sorry this card will not boot , but will run as secondary drive only.
 
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[I knew there would be trouble... That's why I haven't yet marked the thread as [SOLVED]...]

Hi guys 'n' gals. Continuing our discussion on the graphics card upgrade for my very old (but still good) PC. As I was about to hit the "Order Now" button for a sparkling new Sapphire RX 480 8 GB card, I spotted a comment by a buyer, saying that this is a UEFI-only card, and warning buyers not to buy it if their motherboard does not support UEFI. Damn it!

I went back to search mode, looking for evidence about what's really going on with the new Sapphires. I did come across a few posts saying that the RX 400-series cards from Sapphire are marked as "UEFI BIOS" cards in the specifications. Also, in a couple of other threads, a few users reported that their PCs refused to boot or show anything on screen. In most cases the problem was resolved by updating the motherboard's BIOS to the latest version. However, although my mobo has had lots of BIOS updates in its prime time, the latest one is dated early-2010 and is the one I'm currently using. I'm worried that a UEFI card from 2016 may not like a 2010 non-UEFI BIOS...

Alright. The PC is old, so I thought, OK, just get an older card. There are still excellent cards out there that are slightly older and will perform very well in my PC. In fact, I'm pretty sure the RX 480 would be bottlenecked by my old Core 2 Quad @ 3.4 GHz. So, after searching for a good card for my needs, I decided on the R9 380 as a good choice. Cheaper than the RX 480, older (less chance of not working with my old mobo), and fast enough for my needs (1080p gaming). After looking at different brands, I came across a card from MSI that looks great. It's this one:

MSI Radeon™ R9 380 GAMING 4G
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/R9-380-GAMING-4G.html

Now, my question: will the above card work on my old, non-UEFI ASUS Rampage Formula mobo? Has anyone tried an R9 380 card on such an old mobo? I'm finding threads in forums (not many, but there are a few) that mention about old PCs not booting up and needing BIOS updates etc.

What do you guys think? Has this ever happened to you with a graphics card? Should I go ahead and buy the above MSI? I spoke to a local shop that has it, and they say that once I unseal it, they won't take it back, and none of my friends have one to try... I've submitted a question about this to MSI, and now waiting for their reply.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Many thanks!
 
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R9 380 is slow ...

send email to Asus from your motherboard support page , They make RX 480 cards and will tell you if it works on their motherboard or not .

you can get GTX 1060 6GB as well .

If you Buy from Amazon , they accept Returns by the way.
 
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Thanks Samer1970, didn't think about Amazon, you're right, they do accept returns (I've returned a few things in the past, with no problems). It's just that I'm based in Greece, and it will take at least one week for the card to arrive, plus the hassle of repackaging and returning, etc. But it's a safe option I guess. Actually, I believe that there will be no problems with any card. Even the RX 480 may work. Sometimes the problem is not with the mobo but with the PSU etc., and people just assume things that are not necessarily true. My guess is that most cards should work.

Also, good idea about contacting ASUS. It's their mobo, so they should know which of their graphics cards support it. Will send them a question ASAP and wait for their reply.

I just like the looks of the above MSI a lot. They do make GTX 1060 cards too (with the same, if not better, good looks):

MSI GeForce® GTX 1060 GAMING X 6G
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060-GAMING-X-6G.html

I'm on holiday leave this week, was hoping to have my system ready for some action, guess it won't happen...

Thanks again. Will report whatever I find/buy and how it behaves with my mobo, so that others may be helped.
 
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Just got some official responses:

From ASUS:

Dear valued customer, Thank you for contacting the Asus support.

Regarding the described problem, unfortunately there is no official compatibility list for this motherboard regarding VGA cards. In theory, according to the PCI-E specitifcations, any PCI-E card should work (however, no official tests have been performed by Asus). *Please note that this card has PCI-E 2.0 slots. If a PCI-E 3.0 VGA card is connected, it will work at PCI-E 2.0 speeds.

[... contact info deleted ...]

Best Regards - Asus Support

--------------------

From MSI:

Dear sir/madam, Thanks for contacting MSI technical support team.

Regarding your concern, graphics card and motherboard compatibility depends on the type of PCI-E, PCI-E type support can be compatible. Thanks for your cooperation in advance!

Best Regards, MSI Technical Support Team

--------------------

The reply from ASUS is hopeful. They didn't mention any UEFI issues. Also, they say that in theory any graphics card should work, as per the PCIe specifications. In that case, I can use any PCIe graphics card with my system. But can I, really?

Now, the MSI response has got to be one of the most poorly written and least informative replies I've ever received. I don't really understand what they are saying... It seems to me that there is a hint that card and mobo may be compatible, but that's about all I can get out it.

Got to find a friend that's also a gamer... Most of them are old and married and don't have time for games... LOL.

Will keep you updated.
 
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The nitro 480 works on older amibios legacy boards because ive used it on two myself.
Its absolutely not uefi only.

Not guaranteeing it 100% will work on your board , that will depend on how up to date the latest BIOS is


If you did decide to chance it buy the 4gb version , performance is good enough at 1080p & it should be considerably cheaper.
 
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This is a bad idea, you are much better off spending the money on a new motherboard and CPU over a faster SSD. After the video card, next step should be a new CPU and motherboard.

Keep your old cards, then you can sell the full system if you want to get money for the upgrade. Although in a few years, that older CPU won't be worth much even with the upgraded parts.
 
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Somonw above mentioned the 380 being slow

Compared to the 480 maybe it is but the fact is it's still around 3x more powerful than your current 4850 cf setup.

The MSI 380 does not have a legacy/uefi switch , all the sapphire models do - at the right price one of them would still be a good buy.
 
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Many thanks madmatt30, that's good info! The fact that you've tested the RX 480 yourself on two legacy systems is the first real data I've got so far. In the specs they just say it's compatible with "UEFI BIOS", but I believe I read elsewhere that a graphics card's UEFI BIOS should also be usable in a legacy system, in order to follow the PCIe spec. Your tests prove that. The Sapphire RX 480 Nitro+ was my original choice, which I abandoned due to the UEFI issue. You reply puts it back in the game and I may well take the chance on it. Will think about it.



You're absolutely right. It's just that my system is nicely built and has served me well, and as a result I'm trying to keep it alive as long as possible. What you're saying is the logical and sensible thing to do. A new mobo, CPU and RAM is much better than that SSD PCIe card (which can't boot anyway, so it's out of the question). I know that my system is now a very old horse... If I upgrade something, it will only be the GPU and that will be the end of it.

I'm thinking that getting the Sapphire RX 480 Nitro+, that madmatt30 is suggesting above (and we now have proof it may work on my mobo), will keep me going for a while, and when the time comes to retire the system, I can keep the RX 480 for my next one (and use the CrossFired HD 4850 cards on the old system to sell it or keep as secondary).



This is interesting. The specs of the R9 380 Sapphires specifically say that they support both UEFI and legacy BIOS systems. So that's an official statement that maximizes the chances of those cards working fine on my system. Will seriously consider them, but your other reply is now urging me to go for the RX 480...

Man... This is getting too complicated... Or I'm too paranoid... Or both!

Many thanks guys!
 
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The MSI 380 has automatic switching, the sapphire 380's have a uefi/legacy switch

I've installes 480s on the gigabyte 78lmt & Asus m5a78, both 2011 and boards running award bios.

Bear in mind your board was manufactured 2008 by the look of it - that is OLD.
 
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Yes, you're right. I found this thread:

http://www.sevenforums.com/graphic-cards/386169-black-screen-after-graphics-card-install-nitro-r9-380-a-2.html

The BIOS switch on the Sapphire R9 380 can be seen in the photo near the bottom of the page.

I'm thinking that the Sapphire R9 380 may be a safer choice because of the h/w switch. Maybe the MSI or the RX 480 won't like my ancient mobo so much... Will report back here if/when I buy something and do the test myself.
 
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Took the plunge and ordered an MSI GTX 1060 6 GB. This one:

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060-GAMING-X-6G.html

Will it work? I'll know for sure by tomorrow afternoon. If it doesn't work, or if the CPU bottleneck is severe, I will upgrade the mobo, CPU and RAM. But something tells me that if it works, it will perform OK for my needs. I bet most people here haven't even heard the games I want to play: Obduction, The Talos Principle, Dreamfall: Chapters. These types of games should be easy stuff for most systems (except, perhaps, Obduction).

Many thanks to all who replied and helped shape my decision. Will report my findings here.
 
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Good luck mate, to most reports there are no issues with older boards

The 1060 is absolute overkil for your CPU & for those games but what the heck ! It'll save you upgrading again for 2 years at least, likely a lot longer.
It'll also carry over to a new system well if you ever decide to.

Will you have a bottleneck ?? Absolutely you will.
Doesn't mean it wasn't a viable purchase though.
 
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