Question Vacuum Cooler Fans ?

[karasahin]

Hello,

I've been using a vacuum cooler fan for about a week to lower temps for my laptop.

Is there any reason/danger why I shouldn't be using it? Would it damage a laptop's fan or collect static electric or anything like that?
It causes some vibration on my laptop at medium to max fan settings.

It looks similar to the product below. Thanks!

https://imgur.com/XuersEy

 

[Aeacus]

Is there any reason/danger why I shouldn't be using it?

Depending on how fast (CFM) and how hard (mmH2O) the suction operates, it can actually damage the internal fans inside the laptop. By forcefully spinning them faster than they were designed to. And also make the entire cooling actually worse, than what the default setup is.

A fan can spin fast enough that it may effectively block airflow. This phenomenon occurs when the fan blades move at such high speeds that they create a significant amount of turbulence, which can disrupt the smooth flow of air.

At extremely high RPMs (revolutions per minute), the air being pushed by the blades can become turbulent rather than flowing smoothly. This turbulence can lead to a decrease in the fan's effectiveness at moving air, resulting in a situation where the airflow is restricted or even blocked.

In practical terms, most fans are designed to operate within specific speed ranges to avoid this issue. If a fan spins too quickly, it can also lead to mechanical failure or damage.

 

[karasahin]

Depending on how fast (CFM) and how hard (mmH2O) the suction operates, it can actually damage the internal fans inside the laptop. By forcefully spinning them faster than they were designed to. And also make the entire cooling actually worse, than what the default setup is.

Thanks. So how do these vacuum cooler fans actually work? Do they force the internal fans inside the laptop to spin at a higher rate? Say, if a laptop's internal fan works at 800 rpm at 70 celsius degrees to cool down the laptop, would a vacuum cooling fan working at 2000 rpm cause the internal fan to work at 1000 rpm or higher at the same temp? What would be the safe rpm range for a vacuum cooler fan to not cause harm?

 

[Aeacus]

So how do these vacuum cooler fans actually work?

Based on the image you linked, it spins and sucks air from the exhaust duct, thus creating negative pressure inside the laptop.

Do they force the internal fans inside the laptop to spin at a higher rate?

It can, since if the idea is to create negative pressure, airflow inside the laptop increases, which in turn, pulls internal fans to spin faster as well.

Say, if a laptop's internal fan works at 800 rpm at 70 celsius degrees to cool down the laptop, would a vacuum cooling fan working at 2000 rpm cause the internal fan to work at 1000 rpm or higher at the same temp?

In theory and more-or-less - yes.

In practical terms, we need to know the vacuum fan's RPM, CFM and static pressure, laptop internal fans RPM, CFM and static pressure and ALL airflow paths inside the laptop. And even then, there's some leeway at which RPM the vacuum is forcing the internal fans to spin.

What would be the safe rpm range for a vacuum cooler fan to not cause harm?

Since none of the fan specs are known and there isn't any info about airflow paths inside the laptop, this question can not be answered.

I would not use that vacuum at all.
Not all gadgets must be used. Many of them are actually useless and some are even harmful.

Or answer me this; does the vacuum fan brand reimburse you when their product (that vacuum) damages your laptop?
If not, then why even use that gadget?

Also, there are other ways to make the laptop run a bit cooler.

 

[karasahin]

Based on the image you linked, it spins and sucks air from the exhaust duct, thus creating negative pressure inside the laptop.


It can, since if the idea is to create negative pressure, airflow inside the laptop increases, which in turn, pulls internal fans to spin faster as well.


In theory and more-or-less - yes.

In practical terms, we need to know the vacuum fan's RPM, CFM and static pressure, laptop internal fans RPM, CFM and static pressure and ALL airflow paths inside the laptop. And even then, there's some leeway at which RPM the vacuum is forcing the internal fans to spin.


Since none of the fan specs are known and there isn't any info about airflow paths inside the laptop, this question can not be answered.

I would not use that vacuum at all.
Not all gadgets must be used. Many of them are actually useless and some are even harmful.

Or answer me this; does the vacuum fan brand reimburse you when their product (that vacuum) damages your laptop?
If not, then why even use that gadget?

Also, there are other ways to make the laptop run a bit cooler.

Much appreciated for your reply.

To answer your question, I haven't seen any guarantees about reimbursing. But they are saying none of their products would damage a laptop.

IETS and KLIM are well known and reliable (?) brands among laptop cooling solutions and they offer these kind of vacuum cooling products too. I have yet to read a comment that a vacuum cooling fan broke somebodies laptop's fan/s, either.

So I'm leaning towards that they should be safe to use if used not aggressively rpm-wise, though long term effects yet to be seen. I don't know since when these type of products became available so I kinda feel like a lab rat at the moment.

I could buy a cooling pad from those same brands that blows air into a laptop's bottom vents. This is a safe route but more than three times expensive if I were to buy a good one.

What other ways that you could recommend please? I have already tried repasting and cleaning. With the vacuum cooling fan working at 2000 rpm I can get about 10 celsius degrees drop in both CPU and GPU. Maximum CFM is said to be 23.15.

 

[Misgar]

With the vacuum cooling fan working at 2000 rpm I can get about 10 celsius degrees drop in both CPU and GPU.

Do the CPU and GPU reach their thermal throttle temperatures without the external fan? If not, I'd be inclined to run the laptop without additional cooling. When all said and done though, it's your laptop and you can do whatever you like with it.

I've used similar fans to cool 3.5" hard disks in close-fitting USB3 enclosures (WD Elements, Seagate, etc.) but my cheap fans were so badly constructed, I worried about vibrations affecting the hard disk read/write operations. I've stopped using these noisy, buzzy, little fans and point a large 12" desktop fan at the external drives instead.

 

[Aeacus]

What other ways that you could recommend please? I have already tried repasting and cleaning.

1. Do not place your laptop onto soft surface, e.g blanket. Since that holds heat in and restricts bottom airflow considerably (or even block it completely).
2. Place your laptop on hard surface, e.g glass or wooden table.
3. Repaste thermal paste and cleaning the innards of dust. Which you already did.
4. What helps quite a bit, is the elevated laptop stand. Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Laptop-Stands/zgbs/pc/3015409011
5. Active cooling laptop stand is better, IF it is the one that is specifically made for your laptop model. Sure, it is more expensive than passive cooling laptop stand, but it also offers better ventilation for whole laptop.
6. Limit the performance of CPU/GPU if you don't need to use it at it's fullest. Less performance = less heat.

Due to the inherit nature of laptops, only thing that laptop is good for - is it's portability. In EVERY other aspect, desktop PC does it better, including cooling.
So, you seeing 70-80C out of CPU/GPU for a laptop, is actually common place. Now, if you would have desktop PC, and well ventilated one, you can see temps from ambient to ~60C (depending on hardware, of course).

 

[karasahin]

1. Do not place your laptop onto soft surface, e.g blanket. Since that holds heat in and restricts bottom airflow considerably (or even block it completely).
2. Place your laptop on hard surface, e.g glass or wooden table.
3. Repaste thermal paste and cleaning the innards of dust. Which you already did.
4. What helps quite a bit, is the elevated laptop stand. Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Laptop-Stands/zgbs/pc/3015409011
5. Active cooling laptop stand is better, IF it is the one that is specifically made for your laptop model. Sure, it is more expensive than passive cooling laptop stand, but it also offers better ventilation for whole laptop.
6. Limit the performance of CPU/GPU if you don't need to use it at it's fullest. Less performance = less heat.

Due to the inherit nature of laptops, only thing that laptop is good for - is it's portability. In EVERY other aspect, desktop PC does it better, including cooling.
So, you seeing 70-80C out of CPU/GPU for a laptop, is actually common place. Now, if you would have desktop PC, and well ventilated one, you can see temps from ambient to ~60C (depending on hardware, of course).

Thanks again, the first three things are what I already do and I agree with the rest. I have disabled Intel Turbo Boost since I don't like temp rise when it's on.

Of course I know desktops are superior to laptops. But this could also mean they are more fragile than desktop parts too. So I believe it's better not to push temp limits to the very high to ensure longevity. Less heat is better.

So, either I must gamble on using this affordable vacuum cooler to cool down my laptop, or buy an expensive cooling pad that actually works the same (hopefully).

 

[karasahin]

Do the CPU and GPU reach their thermal throttle temperatures without the external fan? If not, I'd be inclined to run the laptop without additional cooling. When all said and done though, it's your laptop and you can do whatever you like with it.

I've used similar fans to cool 3.5" hard disks in close-fitting USB3 enclosures (WD Elements, Seagate, etc.) but my cheap fans were so badly constructed, I worried about vibrations affecting the hard disk read/write operations. I've stopped using these noisy, buzzy, little fans and point a large 12" desktop fan at the external drives instead.

No they don't, it's just that I'm uncomfortable with the CPU running higher than 80C under load at a room temp under 20C. Less temp is better. The GPU is running cool already.

You're right, it would have made me uncomfortable using it because of vibrations as well but since I have got only an SSD running, it is better.

Looks like I gotta find a sweet spot between cooling and safety. It appears that using my vacuum cooler at the maximum speed could be bad for the laptop's internal fan in the long term so I'm planning to use it more conservatively. Or spend more $$ and buy an expensive cooling pad. I don't know exactly.

 

[Aeacus]

So, either I must gamble on using this affordable vacuum cooler to cool down my laptop, or buy an expensive cooling pad that actually works the same (hopefully).

KLIM fan vacuum for 30 bucks,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/KLIM-Tempest-Laptop-Cooler-Vacuum/dp/B08P8JCBB7

KLIM active cooling pad for 20 bucks,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/KLIM-Wind-Laptop-Cooling-Pad/dp/B019IU5HI2

Go figure. 🤔

 

[karasahin]

KLIM fan vacuum for 30 bucks,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/KLIM-Tempest-Laptop-Cooler-Vacuum/dp/B08P8JCBB7

KLIM active cooling pad for 20 bucks,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/KLIM-Wind-Laptop-Cooling-Pad/dp/B019IU5HI2

Go figure. 🤔

Good point but mine isn't KLIM one so it cost me about 5$. The cooling pad below is unavailable for me to buy here too. And nowadays a good cooling pad comes with foams on each side like the product below and this kind of product would cost me about 43$ now.

 

[Aeacus]

And nowadays a good cooling pad comes with foams on each side like the product below and this kind of product would cost me about 43$ now.

Or 100+ bucks for more versatile one;
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/llano-V10-Powerful-13-17-3inch-Adjustable/dp/B0D4DS24TG

If you favor Razer brand, then 150 bucks for one;
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Laptop-Cooling-Pad-Intelligent/dp/B0DJDWWHTV

Razer pad is the most expensive one i found. So, active cooling pad prices are 20-150 bucks.

In my household, we also have laptops but we have never needed active cooling for our portable PCs.

 

[karasahin]

Or 100+ bucks for more versatile one;
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/llano-V10-Powerful-13-17-3inch-Adjustable/dp/B0D4DS24TG

If you favor Razer brand, then 150 bucks for one;
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Laptop-Cooling-Pad-Intelligent/dp/B0DJDWWHTV

Razer pad is the most expensive one i found. So, active cooling pad prices are 20-150 bucks.

In my household, we also have laptops but we have never needed active cooling for our portable PCs.

True, I wouldn't need a cooling solution for a laptop either if mine was a new one and its cooling system is sufficient. But it is neither so I need to use it. On which conditions would you pay for an almost ten times expensive cooling pad than a vacuum cooler? My budget is very limited so I'd like to know.

 

[Ralston18]

What is the power source for that vacuum cooler?

Hopefully not the laptop.....

= = = =

Going back a bit...

Is the laptop truly overheating?

@Misgar mentioned that to some extent in Post #6.

@Aeacus did likewise in Post #7.

My suggestion is to first quantify how much the laptop is actually overheating in normal use and without environmental situations that "insulate" the laptop.

Then, second, address possible solutions to the overheating that do not involve 3rd party products.

Be wary of fixes that might simply mask over a problem that could get worse.

The laptop was not designed to have air flows forced through it and vibrate, etc..

There is the Law of Unintended Consequences to be considered.

 

[karasahin]

What is the power source for that vacuum cooler?

Hopefully not the laptop.....

= = = =

Going back a bit...

Is the laptop truly overheating?

@Misgar mentioned that to some extent in Post #6.

@Aeacus did likewise in Post #7.

My suggestion is to first quantify how much the laptop is actually overheating in normal use and without environmental situations that "insulate" the laptop.

Then, second, address possible solutions to the overheating that do not involve 3rd party products.

Be wary of fixes that might simply mask over a problem that could get worse.

The laptop was not designed to have air flows forced through it and vibrate, etc..

There is the Law of Unintended Consequences to be considered.

It is powered by a USB port, like most of laptop cooling solutions...........

Yes it is overheating under load. Imho just because a laptop CPU hitting 104C and not throttling doesn't mean it's alright to me. My laptop needs a 3rd party cooling solution. Either to mask the real problem or something else.

One of my main goals is to prolong the life of my laptop as much as I can by cooling it down and without damaging its fan for the sake of cooling.

I have already disabled Intel Turbo Boost and I often limit my CPU to work at 80% or 90% capacity clock-wise in summer time. It is not ideal but it's the best I can without additional cooling.

I'm aware that it might go against its design but I kinda hope that I can find a sweet spot where this cooling solution doesn't cause harm. I'm not using it with a vacuum cooler all the time, just when under load. I know vibration isn't good for an HDD but other than that I don't know how it could harm a laptop.

 

[Ralston18]

@karasahin

Think about it.

The laptop overheats because of power requirements.

To cool the laptop you connect an external fan to the laptop that uses even more laptop power to power the vacuum cooler fan and thus increases the use of laptop power.

And probably the overheating....

My overall thought being that the Laws of Thermodynamics are making themselves known.

If anything, power the "vacuum cooler fan" from some other completely independent power source.

Energy will not be saved but the laptop may be a bit cooler.

Caveat being internal airflows etc. are not contrary to laptop design.

And that there are some quantifiable temperature benefits attributable to the vacuum cooler - independently powered.

Again -the beginning concern being how hot the laptop is getting and why.

 

[karasahin]

Why does the CPU run about 10C cooler with the vacuum cooler fan running under load if it being USB powered causes overheat.....?

Max watt it consumes is 3.7w but since I don't use it at the max settings let's call it 3w. I used a cooling pad before it stopped working the same way powered via USB and it helped cooling my laptop.

Though I agree that powering it independently could be better, being USB powered doesn't seem to affect the laptop's cooling performance negatively.

Actually the cooling pad I posted its pic above runs independently powered. And it's safer, as it is not contrary to laptop design. In this case, would you pay this cooling pad 9 times more than a vacuum cooling fan that's powered via USB?

Ralston18​

 

[Aeacus]

Why does the CPU run about 10C cooler with the vacuum cooler fan running under load if it being USB powered causes overheat.....?

Chug your laptop into freezer (-18C temp) and it will run even cooler than with that vacuum.

Just because there are outside ways to reduce temps, doesn't mean that all of them should be used. Or if those are even a good idea.

You asked if you should use that vacuum fan - we answered.
Clearly, getting 10C less temps is the sole factor for you, while completely disregarding any potential damage that vacuum can create for your laptop.

In this case, would you pay this cooling pad 9 times more than a vacuum cooling fan that's powered via USB?

Would i pay more money for good product? Yes.
Heck, i'm even willing to pay premium price for a great product.

For example, i payed for my KB 19.2 times more than the cheapest option.
For PC case, 6.5 times more.
For mice, 6.2 times more.
For PSU, 5.4 times more.
For case fans, 3 times more.


Your laptop - your call.
You have your answer.

 

[karasahin]

I will ignore the comment above.

I've come to the conclusion based on replies in the thread that:

1) While a vacuum cooler fan might potentially damage a laptop fan, no user has yet to report such a thing. Reviews are mostly positive.
2) Vibration that a vacuum cooler fan produces could be potentially unhealthy for HDDs too.
3) Well known laptop cooling solution brands such as KLIM and IETS offer vacuum cooler fans.
4) I believe it's still a new tech but its price/performance ratio is very good for short term.
5) Best to use it at low to medium speed to avoid problems and for sufficient cooling.

Thanks everybody, I will try to give updates in the future.