Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)
"AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bGMPe.19626$%w.8278@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "PTravel" <ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote in message
> news:3n904sFemi0U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:HsyPe.19586$%w.14173@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> >> And true, most Americans think China isn't are enemy or would never
plan
> >> a
> >> war with us, but think about this.
> >> There are only so many resources left on this planet, mainly oil for
> > energy,
> >> also water etc..
> >> With China's population growing leaps and bounds over our measly 260
> > million
> >> or so people. in about 10 to 20 years tops
> >> they will be fight for those remaining resources with everyone on the
> >> planet. Being we as Americans consume probably 20 fold
> >> if not more what other people do in resources, we would be the direct
> >> competitor for those resources.
> >> Darwinian forces will win out over diplomacy everytime when the future
of
> > a
> >> nation and race are at stake, don't kid yourself in thinking
> >> they'll sacrifice the lives of millions of their people to every one of
> > us,
> >> when divvying up what's left of the pie!
> >>
> >> They are for sure planning their survival against the super-power(being
> > us)
> >> from now, they'd be stupid not to.
> >> Unfortunately our leaders are too distracted at the moment to
concentrate
> >> and allocate resources at protecting our security from
> >> the Red internet attacks. According to the news, we can't just go their
> > and
> >> question people, and the Chinese government is being uncooperative.
> >>
> >> Also, with the fall of communism in Russia, our once rival will also
> > compete
> >> for resources just the same, as the communists that are left.
> >> Sure we can all be calm about it now, and worry about terrorism that
> >> might
> >> happen again, but our survival as a nation depends on our ability
> >> to secure not only our borders but our technology which is our only
> >> advantage to our survival some day. Unless you see some world
government
> >> where we all have one leader and all share the worlds resources evenly,
> >> that's what we have to protect against. 20 years will be here in the
> >> blink
> >> of an eye, and our children will think remember the good ol days before
> > all
> >> this?
> >>
> >> Hey sounds like a good book, no?
> >
> > And, fortunately, that's what is -- fiction. China is only nominally
> > Communist -- it is, at this point and in the economic sense, far more
> > capitalistic than the U.S. The US is China's biggest trading partner,
and
> > also an ally against Islamic expansionism (something that China is
> > troubled
> > with as well as the U.S.). The Chinese people themselves regard us as
> > friends, not potential enemies.
> >
> > China simply isn't a threat of any kind to us (except, perhaps,
> > economic --
> > they do capitalism better than we do), and has the potential to be
> > America's
> > greatest ally.
> >
>
> It's really naive to thing China isn't any threat to us. Why then, should
we
> not share all our military secrets with them openely?
For the same reason we don't share our military secrets with Canada, Britain
or South Africa -- they're military secrets, and one of the factors that
enables us to be a super power.
> Heck, let's show them how to make all our weapons systems, so they can
help
> us against islamic fundamentalists, NOT!
Talk about naive. Just what do you think China is planning? Alliances
between nations are always strategic. China has a significant problem on
its western border (you know -- where all those "stan" countries are) with
Islamic fanaticism. In other words, we have a common enemy. The US is
China's primary trading partner. In other words, we have an economic
interest in being friends. Putative governmental form labels aside, the
Chinese "ethic," emphasizing family, hard work, individual achievement,
education and collective self-sacrifice, is very compatible with its
American counterpart.
>
> They are considered and adversary, true fact, not an alley in any ones
book.
They are considered an adversary by whom? What do you actually know about
China (that's a rhetorical question, by the way)? Have you ever been there?
Spoken to government officials there? Met with business people, common
people, educators, professionals there?
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/08/25/hackers.china/index.html
From the article you cited:
"The FBI and the Pentagon are investigating whether Chinese spies have been
hacking into U.S. government computer systems, U.S. officials said Thursday.
Officials are trying to determine whether the continuing hacking efforts are
sponsored by Beijing or merely involve hackers using Chinese Web sites to
mask their origins, they said."
1. Neither the FBI nor the Pentagon know whether it is China responsible
for this, or not. And neither do you.
2. Do you think the US doesn't spy on China? Do you think the US doesn't
spy on Britain?
> Also, China doesn't have our view own intellectual property rights and
> copyrights.
That's right -- China has a different philosophy with respect to ownership
of intellectual property, one that it recognizes will have to change if it
wants to participate on a world stage dominated (for the most part) by a
western view of IP ownership. How does this make China a threat to the US?
> That's why illegal movie DVD making goes on openly even with no government
> intervention.
> What about that point of view of theirs?
What about it? Are you aware that Chinese pirate Chinese IP as well as
western IP? As I said, it's a different philosophy and one that will have
to change, just as the US will have to change its insular and Machiavellian
view of government and human rights if it wishes to maintain its super-power
status.
>
> Remember most wars are fought over less divisive issues, civil wars are
> fought were people share national identity, race etc...
> countries become divided and wars errupt, so it is very naive to think a
> nation as China with hardly nothing in common with
> American traditions, values or morals( not that Chinese have no morals, in
> fact I respect theirs).
Sorry, but I don't think you know much about Chinese morality, much less
have respect for it. As I said earlier, Chinese values are very compatible
with American values and, interestingly enough, most Chinese seem very
interested in adopting western ideas, modes and styles. I'd recommend that
you visit China, sometime, and see the reality of the country, rather than
depend on distorted media and political demagogery.
> It's just that differences can someday find our two
> nations at odds with each other, especially when resources
> are used up. Heck, brothers fight for last piece of pie!
Brothers don't go to war for the last piece of pie. The issue for China
isn't lack of resources, but uncontrolled exploitation of those resources --
they have a much bigger problem with pollution than with resource shortages.
However, any two nations can find themselves at odds -- it is conceivable
that the US and Canada could be at each other's throats some day. However,
describing China as a threat to the US is simply ridiculous. As I said in
my earlier post, the US has real and readily definable enemies that are not
only potential threats, but have actually backed or mounted attacks on our
country. I am far more concerned about the threat they pose, then the
highly theoretical and entirely speculative threat that you ascribe to
China.
> What we all forget is resourses are limited, energy, food and water is not
> unlimited, and people will fight to survive with each other one day.
> So that is not fiction. How soon, 20 years or 200 years, that would be
> fiction to give an exact date. True.
>
> And Yes, I agree, Chinese people themselves don't see us as a threat
> personally at the moment, but attitudes can change quickly when a man sees
> his family starving, 30 people living in a small room and hear that
> Americans are driving SUV's that burn more gas in a trip to the casino
than
> would be needed to power their cooking for a year.
Take a trip to Shanghai, sometime. In comparison to _any_ US city,
including New York, Shanghai is more modern, more prosperous and has a
better infrastructure. I don't know where you've gotten your impressions of
China, but they're simply wrong. Yes, there are very poor people in the
western agrarian sections of China. However, in the industrialized east,
China is approaching (and in many cases equalling or surpassing) an American
standard of living. Visit Beijing or Shenzhen, sometime, or even Guangzhou.
> How about the woman in Sudan who walk half a day to gather twigs to a make
a
> fire to cook, and most of the woman are raped on the journey with the
> government turning a blind eye. 90% of the men in that town were already
> killed (Darwinism at work), limited resources.
And Sudan allied itself with Bin Laden, is an Islamic state, and an avowed
enemy of the US. What has that to do with China?
>
> So globally we haven't felt it yet, but it's coming, unless a plague
> destroys half the worlds population, which has always helped limit
resource
> usage in the past. But with scientists finding vacines and preventing
nature
> from controlling the population, who knows what will save us.
> Maybe those billions spend on the space shuttle can be helpful, we can
build
> moon colonies.
>
> AnthonyR.
>
>
"AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bGMPe.19626$%w.8278@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "PTravel" <ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote in message
> news:3n904sFemi0U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:HsyPe.19586$%w.14173@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> >> And true, most Americans think China isn't are enemy or would never
plan
> >> a
> >> war with us, but think about this.
> >> There are only so many resources left on this planet, mainly oil for
> > energy,
> >> also water etc..
> >> With China's population growing leaps and bounds over our measly 260
> > million
> >> or so people. in about 10 to 20 years tops
> >> they will be fight for those remaining resources with everyone on the
> >> planet. Being we as Americans consume probably 20 fold
> >> if not more what other people do in resources, we would be the direct
> >> competitor for those resources.
> >> Darwinian forces will win out over diplomacy everytime when the future
of
> > a
> >> nation and race are at stake, don't kid yourself in thinking
> >> they'll sacrifice the lives of millions of their people to every one of
> > us,
> >> when divvying up what's left of the pie!
> >>
> >> They are for sure planning their survival against the super-power(being
> > us)
> >> from now, they'd be stupid not to.
> >> Unfortunately our leaders are too distracted at the moment to
concentrate
> >> and allocate resources at protecting our security from
> >> the Red internet attacks. According to the news, we can't just go their
> > and
> >> question people, and the Chinese government is being uncooperative.
> >>
> >> Also, with the fall of communism in Russia, our once rival will also
> > compete
> >> for resources just the same, as the communists that are left.
> >> Sure we can all be calm about it now, and worry about terrorism that
> >> might
> >> happen again, but our survival as a nation depends on our ability
> >> to secure not only our borders but our technology which is our only
> >> advantage to our survival some day. Unless you see some world
government
> >> where we all have one leader and all share the worlds resources evenly,
> >> that's what we have to protect against. 20 years will be here in the
> >> blink
> >> of an eye, and our children will think remember the good ol days before
> > all
> >> this?
> >>
> >> Hey sounds like a good book, no?
> >
> > And, fortunately, that's what is -- fiction. China is only nominally
> > Communist -- it is, at this point and in the economic sense, far more
> > capitalistic than the U.S. The US is China's biggest trading partner,
and
> > also an ally against Islamic expansionism (something that China is
> > troubled
> > with as well as the U.S.). The Chinese people themselves regard us as
> > friends, not potential enemies.
> >
> > China simply isn't a threat of any kind to us (except, perhaps,
> > economic --
> > they do capitalism better than we do), and has the potential to be
> > America's
> > greatest ally.
> >
>
> It's really naive to thing China isn't any threat to us. Why then, should
we
> not share all our military secrets with them openely?
For the same reason we don't share our military secrets with Canada, Britain
or South Africa -- they're military secrets, and one of the factors that
enables us to be a super power.
> Heck, let's show them how to make all our weapons systems, so they can
help
> us against islamic fundamentalists, NOT!
Talk about naive. Just what do you think China is planning? Alliances
between nations are always strategic. China has a significant problem on
its western border (you know -- where all those "stan" countries are) with
Islamic fanaticism. In other words, we have a common enemy. The US is
China's primary trading partner. In other words, we have an economic
interest in being friends. Putative governmental form labels aside, the
Chinese "ethic," emphasizing family, hard work, individual achievement,
education and collective self-sacrifice, is very compatible with its
American counterpart.
>
> They are considered and adversary, true fact, not an alley in any ones
book.
They are considered an adversary by whom? What do you actually know about
China (that's a rhetorical question, by the way)? Have you ever been there?
Spoken to government officials there? Met with business people, common
people, educators, professionals there?
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/08/25/hackers.china/index.html
From the article you cited:
"The FBI and the Pentagon are investigating whether Chinese spies have been
hacking into U.S. government computer systems, U.S. officials said Thursday.
Officials are trying to determine whether the continuing hacking efforts are
sponsored by Beijing or merely involve hackers using Chinese Web sites to
mask their origins, they said."
1. Neither the FBI nor the Pentagon know whether it is China responsible
for this, or not. And neither do you.
2. Do you think the US doesn't spy on China? Do you think the US doesn't
spy on Britain?
> Also, China doesn't have our view own intellectual property rights and
> copyrights.
That's right -- China has a different philosophy with respect to ownership
of intellectual property, one that it recognizes will have to change if it
wants to participate on a world stage dominated (for the most part) by a
western view of IP ownership. How does this make China a threat to the US?
> That's why illegal movie DVD making goes on openly even with no government
> intervention.
> What about that point of view of theirs?
What about it? Are you aware that Chinese pirate Chinese IP as well as
western IP? As I said, it's a different philosophy and one that will have
to change, just as the US will have to change its insular and Machiavellian
view of government and human rights if it wishes to maintain its super-power
status.
>
> Remember most wars are fought over less divisive issues, civil wars are
> fought were people share national identity, race etc...
> countries become divided and wars errupt, so it is very naive to think a
> nation as China with hardly nothing in common with
> American traditions, values or morals( not that Chinese have no morals, in
> fact I respect theirs).
Sorry, but I don't think you know much about Chinese morality, much less
have respect for it. As I said earlier, Chinese values are very compatible
with American values and, interestingly enough, most Chinese seem very
interested in adopting western ideas, modes and styles. I'd recommend that
you visit China, sometime, and see the reality of the country, rather than
depend on distorted media and political demagogery.
> It's just that differences can someday find our two
> nations at odds with each other, especially when resources
> are used up. Heck, brothers fight for last piece of pie!
Brothers don't go to war for the last piece of pie. The issue for China
isn't lack of resources, but uncontrolled exploitation of those resources --
they have a much bigger problem with pollution than with resource shortages.
However, any two nations can find themselves at odds -- it is conceivable
that the US and Canada could be at each other's throats some day. However,
describing China as a threat to the US is simply ridiculous. As I said in
my earlier post, the US has real and readily definable enemies that are not
only potential threats, but have actually backed or mounted attacks on our
country. I am far more concerned about the threat they pose, then the
highly theoretical and entirely speculative threat that you ascribe to
China.
> What we all forget is resourses are limited, energy, food and water is not
> unlimited, and people will fight to survive with each other one day.
> So that is not fiction. How soon, 20 years or 200 years, that would be
> fiction to give an exact date. True.
>
> And Yes, I agree, Chinese people themselves don't see us as a threat
> personally at the moment, but attitudes can change quickly when a man sees
> his family starving, 30 people living in a small room and hear that
> Americans are driving SUV's that burn more gas in a trip to the casino
than
> would be needed to power their cooking for a year.
Take a trip to Shanghai, sometime. In comparison to _any_ US city,
including New York, Shanghai is more modern, more prosperous and has a
better infrastructure. I don't know where you've gotten your impressions of
China, but they're simply wrong. Yes, there are very poor people in the
western agrarian sections of China. However, in the industrialized east,
China is approaching (and in many cases equalling or surpassing) an American
standard of living. Visit Beijing or Shenzhen, sometime, or even Guangzhou.
> How about the woman in Sudan who walk half a day to gather twigs to a make
a
> fire to cook, and most of the woman are raped on the journey with the
> government turning a blind eye. 90% of the men in that town were already
> killed (Darwinism at work), limited resources.
And Sudan allied itself with Bin Laden, is an Islamic state, and an avowed
enemy of the US. What has that to do with China?
>
> So globally we haven't felt it yet, but it's coming, unless a plague
> destroys half the worlds population, which has always helped limit
resource
> usage in the past. But with scientists finding vacines and preventing
nature
> from controlling the population, who knows what will save us.
> Maybe those billions spend on the space shuttle can be helpful, we can
build
> moon colonies.
>
> AnthonyR.
>
>
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