Build Advice What do you think about this new build ?

[zenguedes]

I am building a pc for gaming right now.
First of all, my question is if it is worth it to go for DDR5 instead of DDR4.
I am spending around 1500/1600€.

This was the build i am thinking of:

https://pt.pcpartpicker.com/list/qkkcGP

If you can, give me your opinion!

 

[Aeacus]

First of all, my question is if it is worth it to go for DDR5 instead of DDR4.

Further reading: https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ddr5-vs-ddr4-is-it-time-to-upgrade-your-ram

What dou you think about this build?

Why dual RTX 4070? You do know that SLI is dead, right?

Also, what's with your desire to cheap out on PSU? 🙄 You do realize that PSU powers everything, right? Thus, PSU is the most important component inside your PC.

Refined your build a bit;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor (€360.00)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler (€98.80 @ Switch Technology)
Motherboard: MSI MPG B550 GAMING PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard (€121.90)
Memory: Kingston FURY Renegade 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory (€99.90 @ Globaldata)
Storage: Kingston KC3000 1.024 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€79.90)
Video Card: MSI VENTUS 2X GeForce RTX 4070 12 GB Video Card (€629.90)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€64.90 @ PCDIGA)
Power Supply: SeaSonic VERTEX GX-750 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€179.90 @ Globaldata)
Case Fan: Fractal Design Aspect 12 PWM 56 CFM 120 mm Fan (€16.80 @ Switch Technology)
Monitor: AOC 24G2U/BK 24.0" 1920 x 1080 144 Hz Monitor (Purchased For €0.00)
Total: €1652.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-03 21:10 WET+0000

Changes;
CPU cooler to Noctua NH-D15S. Cheaper and since your PC case doesn't have a window, you can't see the RGB on the AIO. That, and AIOs usually last 3-5 years, while air cooler has essentially unlimited lifespan. Only thing that can go bad on air cooler, is the fan on it. Replacing the fan is both easy and cheap. With AIOs, usually that goes bad is the pump itself and this means you have to replace entire AIO, which will cost far more than one 120/140mm fan.

Removed 2nd RTX 4070.

Upgraded PSU to a far better build quality unit, which has proper wattage capacity and is also ATX 3.0/PCI-E 5.0 compatible.

 

[zenguedes]

Further reading: https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ddr5-vs-ddr4-is-it-time-to-upgrade-your-ram


Why dual RTX 4070? You do know that SLI is dead, right?

Also, what's with your desire to cheap out on PSU? 🙄 You do realize that PSU powers everything, right? Thus, PSU is the most important component inside your PC.

Refined your build a bit;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor (€360.00)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler (€98.80 @ Switch Technology)
Motherboard: MSI MPG B550 GAMING PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard (€121.90)
Memory: Kingston FURY Renegade 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory (€99.90 @ Globaldata)
Storage: Kingston KC3000 1.024 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€79.90)
Video Card: MSI VENTUS 2X GeForce RTX 4070 12 GB Video Card (€629.90)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€64.90 @ PCDIGA)
Power Supply: SeaSonic VERTEX GX-750 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€179.90 @ Globaldata)
Case Fan: Fractal Design Aspect 12 PWM 56 CFM 120 mm Fan (€16.80 @ Switch Technology)
Monitor: AOC 24G2U/BK 24.0" 1920 x 1080 144 Hz Monitor (Purchased For €0.00)
Total: €1652.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-03 21:10 WET+0000

Changes;
CPU cooler to Noctua NH-D15S. Cheaper and since your PC case doesn't have a window, you can't see the RGB on the AIO. That, and AIOs usually last 3-5 years, while air cooler has essentially unlimited lifespan. Only thing that can go bad on air cooler, is the fan on it. Replacing the fan is both easy and cheap. With AIOs, usually that goes bad is the pump itself and this means you have to replace entire AIO, which will cost far more than one 120/140mm fan.

Removed 2nd RTX 4070.

Upgraded PSU to a far better build quality unit, which has proper wattage capacity and is also ATX 3.0/PCI-E 5.0 compatible.

My mistake here.
I forgot to remove one of the graphics.

I am a bit concerned about DDR4 because of the upgrade path. With DDR5 I would be able to improve the specs in the future without having to change all the PC.

 

[Aeacus]

I am a bit concerned about DDR4 because of the upgrade path. With DDR5 I would be able to improve the specs in the future without having to change all the PC.

When it comes to RAM, only thing that is there to upgrade, is RAM capacity. Frequency upgrades as such, aren't cost effective.

E.g with DDR4 RAM, sweet spot would be 3000/3200 Mhz. Sure, you can get DDR4 that is 4366 Mhz or more, but those DIMMs cost way too much for it to be cost effective, while there isn't almost any gain in performance.

With DDR5, frequency starts from 4800 Mhz. Most kits today are 5600 Mhz or so. Sure, there are higher ones as well, but again, not that cost effective.

Though, DDR5 prices have come down quite a bit and are a bit more than DDR4 kits. So, you could go with DDR5 MoBo if you like.

 

[zenguedes]

When it comes to RAM, only thing that is there to upgrade, is RAM capacity. Frequency upgrades as such, aren't cost effective.

E.g with DDR4 RAM, sweet spot would be 3000/3200 Mhz. Sure, you can get DDR4 that is 4366 Mhz or more, but those DIMMs cost way too much for it to be cost effective, while there isn't almost any gain in performance.

With DDR5, frequency starts from 4800 Mhz. Most kits today are 5600 Mhz or so. Sure, there are higher ones as well, but again, not that cost effective.

Though, DDR5 prices have come down quite a bit and are a bit more than DDR4 kits. So, you could go with DDR5 MoBo if you like.

When it comes to RAM, only thing that is there to upgrade, is RAM capacity. Frequency upgrades as such, aren't cost effective.

E.g with DDR4 RAM, sweet spot would be 3000/3200 Mhz. Sure, you can get DDR4 that is 4366 Mhz or more, but those DIMMs cost way too much for it to be cost effective, while there isn't almost any gain in performance.

With DDR5, frequency starts from 4800 Mhz. Most kits today are 5600 Mhz or so. Sure, there are higher ones as well, but again, not that cost effective.

Though, DDR5 prices have come down quite a bit and are a bit more than DDR4 kits. So, you could go with DDR5 MoBo if you like.

Yeah, right know im more inclined to DD5. Having this in mind, which specs do recommend me with the same budget?

Sorry to be taking up your time

 

[Aeacus]

Having this in mind, which specs do recommend me with the same budget?

Doesn't my refined build not do since it's over €1600? 🤔

If you can't fit good quality PSU into your budget, then either downgrade CPU or GPU. But never-ever cheap out on PSU!

Edit:

My suggestion:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-14600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor (€342.90 @ Switch Technology)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler (€98.80 @ Switch Technology)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z790-S WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€239.89 @ PC Componentes)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory (€117.50 @ Switch Technology)
Storage: Kingston KC3000 2.048 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€124.50 @ Switch Technology)
Video Card: MSI VENTUS 2X BLACK OC GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB Video Card (€340.44 @ PC Componentes)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€64.90 @ PCDIGA)
Power Supply: SeaSonic VERTEX GX-750 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€179.90 @ Globaldata)
Case Fan: Fractal Design Aspect 12 PWM 56 CFM 120 mm Fan (€16.80 @ Switch Technology)
Monitor: AOC 24G2U/BK 24.0" 1920 x 1080 144 Hz Monitor (Purchased For €0.00)
Total: €1525.63

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-03 21:57 WET+0000

Few words;
Went with Intel CPU since i5-14600K is both cheaper and better than your Ryzen chip,
small comparison: https://www.pcguide.com/cpu/core-i5-14600k-vs-ryzen-7-5800x3d/

With Intel chip, changed MoBo as well. Also put in DDR5 MoBo.

DDR5 RAM, same capacity as your DDR4 kit was.

Had to downgrade GPU to RTX 4060 since RTX 4070 does not fit the budget. Also, at later date, it is far easier to upgrade the GPU than upgrading CPU. Most PC builds see GPU upgrade or two in their lifespan, before new CPU-MoBo combo is bought.

PSU is the same, good quality 750W unit as in my refined build. No point to downgrade PSU if you go with better GPU at the future, which requires beefier PSU.

With this, build is within your budget, while having good quality parts all around, including PSU.

 

[zenguedes]

Doesn't my refined build not do since it's over €1600? 🤔

If you can't fit good quality PSU into your budget, then either downgrade CPU or GPU. But never-ever cheap out on PSU!

Oh sorry :/
Did not realized it was already dd5.
Thanks a lot for your help and time spent!

 

[Aeacus]

Oh sorry :/
Did not realized it was already dd5.
Thanks a lot for your help and time spent!

Just edited my last reply and added in build suggestion, go read it. (The Intel build.)

 

[zenguedes]

Just edited my last reply and added in build suggestion, go read it. (The Intel build.)

Thanks once again. What did you change from this build to the other? It is ok if it goes a little bit over the budget.

 

[Aeacus]

What did you change from this build to the other?

Diff between my initial suggestion and my 2nd one?
If so;

CPU - R7 5800X3D - i5-14600K
MoBo - MSI MPG B550 Gaming Plus DDR4 - MSI PRO Z790-S WIFI DDR5
RAM - 2 x 16 GB DDR4-3600 CL16 - 2 x 16 GB DDR5-6000 CL36
M.2 - KC3000 1TB - KC3000 2TB
GPU - RTX 4070 - RTX 4060

 

[zenguedes]

Diff between my initial suggestion and my 2nd one?
If so;

CPU - R7 5800X3D - i5-14600K
MoBo - MSI MPG B550 Gaming Plus DDR4 - MSI PRO Z790-S WIFI DDR5
RAM - 2 x 16 GB DDR4-3600 CL16 - 2 x 16 GB DDR5-6000 CL36
M.2 - KC3000 1TB - KC3000 2TB
GPU - RTX 4070 - RTX 4060

Don't buy DDR5 for gaming. The performance uplift is there, but it doesn't warrant an upgrade. Yes, DDR5 helps improve your frame rates, but you also need to keep your expectations in check. So unless you're a hardcore gamer that doesn't like knowing you're leaving performance on the table, you shouldn't pick up DDR5.
[12:49 AM]
For now, DDR4 offers more bang for your buck. For comparison, the cheapest DDR5-4800 32GB C40 memory kit retails for $73, whereas a DDR4-3200 32GB C16 memory kit goes for as low as $50. While the former offers 6% higher performance, it's also 46% more expensive than the latter. DDR5 pricing won't remain this high forever, but DDR5 can't compete with the value of high-end DDR4 until it improves.
[12:49 AM]
DDR5 has more future-proofing value. However, manufacturers haven't rung DDR4's death knell. It's undeniable that the next generations of processors will eventually drop DDR4 support. Upgrading to a DDR5 memory kit today means you can reuse it for future platforms. The downside is that DDR5 is still wet behind the ears, so there will be better offerings down the line.

What do you think? I really dont know what to do yet... Sorry to bother you.

 

[Aeacus]

Don't buy DDR5 for gaming. The performance uplift is there, but it doesn't warrant an upgrade. Yes, DDR5 helps improve your frame rates, but you also need to keep your expectations in check. So unless you're a hardcore gamer that doesn't like knowing you're leaving performance on the table, you shouldn't pick up DDR5.

This is something you can easily mitigate when you buy DDR5 that is faster than 4800 MHz, e.g 5600/6000 Mhz and enable the faster RAM profile from BIOS, so that the RAM actually runs at advertised speeds.

For now, DDR4 offers more bang for your buck. For comparison, the cheapest DDR5-4800 32GB C40 memory kit retails for $73, whereas a DDR4-3200 32GB C16 memory kit goes for as low as $50. While the former offers 6% higher performance, it's also 46% more expensive than the latter. DDR5 pricing won't remain this high forever, but DDR5 can't compete with the value of high-end DDR4 until it improves.

This quote is somewhat true. Then again DDR3 is even cheaper than DDR4, but it doesn't mean one should go with DDR3 MoBo (latest MoBos that support DDR3 would be Intel 100-series chipset, supporting Intel 6th gen Skylake CPUs).

E.g the DDR5 i put into my 2nd suggestion, it costs €117. That's €18 more than the DDR4 kit you picked initially. Of course, frequency is far higher for DDR5, at 6000 Mhz, compared to 3600 Mhz DDR4 you picked. So, as of current date, DDR5 prices have come down quite a lot, making DDR5 worthwhile (price wise).

DDR5 has more future-proofing value. However, manufacturers haven't rung DDR4's death knell. It's undeniable that the next generations of processors will eventually drop DDR4 support. Upgrading to a DDR5 memory kit today means you can reuse it for future platforms. The downside is that DDR5 is still wet behind the ears, so there will be better offerings down the line.

This is true. DDR5 launched a while back and if you go with AMD, you don't have an option between DDR4 or DDR5.

AMD Ryzen 1000, 2000, 3000 and 5000-series CPUs support only DDR4. (Using old AM4 socket.)
AMD Ryzen 7000-series CPUs support only DDR5. (Using new AM5 socket.)

With Intel, you have an option;
Intel 12th gen, 13th gen and 14th gen work on Intel 600- and 700-series chipset MoBos. Both chipset series MoBos offer DDR4 and DDR5 MoBos. (Using LGA1700 socket.)

So, future proofing wise, if you go with Ryzen 5000-series CPU (like 5800X3D you picked), you're stuck with dead platform. Ryzen 7000-series CPUs work only with AM5 socket MoBos, while your MoBo would be AM4 socket.
With Intel, latest CPU generation is 14th series and 600- and 700-chipset MoBos work with it. Perhaps even upcoming 800-series chipset as well. But when Intel moves on to 15th gen CPUs and 900-series chipset MoBos, Intel usually changes CPU socket and you can't upgrade your CPU, without replacing MoBo as well.

With this, and IF you plan to upgrade CPU at later date, your best bet would be going with Ryzen 7000-series and AM5 MoBo (which only supports DDR5). Since with that, you can be sure that the next CPU generation (perhaps even 2 or 3 next generations) are supported by your MoBo.
Though, most people doesn't upgrade their CPU that easily, instead like to keep the CPU running for 5-10 years. By that time, far different CPUs/MoBos/RAM are available (e.g DDR6) and it would be easier to go with new CPU-MoBo-RAM combo.

 

[ilukey77]

Doesn't my refined build not do since it's over €1600? 🤔

If you can't fit good quality PSU into your budget, then either downgrade CPU or GPU. But never-ever cheap out on PSU!

Edit:

My suggestion:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-14600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor (€342.90 @ Switch Technology)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler (€98.80 @ Switch Technology)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z790-S WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€239.89 @ PC Componentes)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory (€117.50 @ Switch Technology)
Storage: Kingston KC3000 2.048 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€124.50 @ Switch Technology)
Video Card: MSI VENTUS 2X BLACK OC GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB Video Card (€340.44 @ PC Componentes)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€64.90 @ PCDIGA)
Power Supply: SeaSonic VERTEX GX-750 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€179.90 @ Globaldata)
Case Fan: Fractal Design Aspect 12 PWM 56 CFM 120 mm Fan (€16.80 @ Switch Technology)
Monitor: AOC 24G2U/BK 24.0" 1920 x 1080 144 Hz Monitor (Purchased For €0.00)
Total: €1525.63

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-03 21:57 WET+0000

Few words;
Went with Intel CPU since i5-14600K is both cheaper and better than your Ryzen chip,
small comparison: https://www.pcguide.com/cpu/core-i5-14600k-vs-ryzen-7-5800x3d/

With Intel chip, changed MoBo as well. Also put in DDR5 MoBo.

DDR5 RAM, same capacity as your DDR4 kit was.

Had to downgrade GPU to RTX 4060 since RTX 4070 does not fit the budget. Also, at later date, it is far easier to upgrade the GPU than upgrading CPU. Most PC builds see GPU upgrade or two in their lifespan, before new CPU-MoBo combo is bought.

PSU is the same, good quality 750W unit as in my refined build. No point to downgrade PSU if you go with better GPU at the future, which requires beefier PSU.

With this, build is within your budget, while having good quality parts all around, including PSU.

would steer clear of anything 8gb vram wise money could be saved on a 13600k and a b760
or i would look at b650 7700 non x and a 7800xt or 7900xt cl30 6000 ddr5

 

[Aeacus]

would steer clear of anything 8gb vram wise

Any valid reason for that? Other than: "if GPU has 8GB VRAM, it is bad"? 🤔

money could be saved on a 13600k and a b760

And even more money could be saved with i5-13500, which is better suited for B-series MoBo.

K-series CPU can be OCd and thus, is best suited with Z-series MoBo. While B-series MoBo can be used to OC K-series chip, it is advised against since VRMs on B-series MoBos usually doesn't live up to the task of CPU OC, hence why Z-series is best suited.

or i would look at b650 7700 non x and a 7800xt or 7900xt cl30 6000 ddr5

R7 7700 costs same as 14600K, while Ryzen chip has 6 less cores and 4 less threads compared to Intel. Thus, R7 7700 is worse CPU (far less value).

i5-14600K review: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-14600k/

 

[ilukey77]

R7 7700 costs same as 14600K, while Ryzen chip has 6 less cores and 4 less threads compared to Intel. Thus, R7 7700 is worse CPU (far less value).

well not really the LGA1700 is a dead platform and AM5 still has life span so im thinking the 14600k which is really only a little better than the 13600k still makes the 7700 far better value !!
Unless your talking the 14700k which is the best of the 14th gen which is more than the 7700 and still on a dead platform !!

 

[Aeacus]

still makes the 7700 far better value !!

CPU wise, even 13600K is better than R7 7700, both performance and value vise. What has better value, is the AMD's AM5 socket MoBo, since it supports upcoming CPU generations, while Intel LGA1700 socket could end with 14th gen, where 15th gen CPU may not be compatible anymore.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

compromised a bit here with the mobo:

the tuf plus B650 supports pcie 5.0 ssd and has a 60A 12 phase VRM design. I would say its the minimum for a decent mobo. It also got wifi 6 instead of 6E.

went with RX7800XT instead of 4070.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor (€379.89 @ Switch Technology)
CPU Cooler: Jonsbo HX6250 90.2 CFM CPU Cooler (€47.80 @ Switch Technology)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING B650-PLUS WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard (€179.90 @ PCDIGA)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory (€131.90 @ PCDIGA)
Storage: TEAMGROUP Cardea Zero Z440 Graphene 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€99.90 @ Switch Technology)
Video Card: XFX Speedster QICK 319 Core Radeon RX 7800 XT 16 GB Video Card (€558.99 @ PC Componentes)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€64.90 @ PCDIGA)
Power Supply: Corsair RM750e (2023) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€113.84 @ PC Componentes)
Case Fan: ARCTIC P12 56.3 CFM 120 mm Fan (€4.90 @ Globaldata)
Monitor: AOC 24G2U/BK 24.0" 1920 x 1080 144 Hz Monitor (Purchased For €0.00)
Total: €1582.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-04 15:20 WET+0000