What Does It Take To Turn The PC Into A Hi-Fi Audio Platform?

[WyomingKnott]

I have to disagree on principle with the idea that $2 equipment is as good as $2,000 equipment for all listeners. Most people won't be able to tell the difference between the various sources. Some people can. It depends on the individual's ears and mind. There are a few people out there who can really hear a difference and really care. I'm on the low edge of that group, but totally unwilling to invest thousands of dollars for superior sound.A/B testing doesn't do it for me. I once bought four pairs of headphones and spent two weeks listening to them, two day at a time per pair. At the end of that cycle, I had strong opinions about the differences between them that an hour of A/B testing would never have revealed. I returned two and kept two. I have refined my equipment down to the point where well-recorded Baroque music sounds accurate and nearly transparent to me.There are people who grew up on MP3 players and seem to prefer sound of a quality so low that it makes me wince. So I guess that there is a cultural or environmental part to the equation. But the answer is that it depends on the individual.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

I think part of it is where you're spending the money. You get next to nothing out of a sound card, but a good set of speakers can make a massive difference, or a good amp or receiver.

Good MP3s can be quite good - it all comes down to the bitrate and how well the encoder is written.

I do know a number of people who can definitely hear the difference between sources in seconds, but they're people who've spent decades working in radio, and who fit out places like courtrooms.

 

[geok1ng]

This is the best article on PC sound that i have ever seem. From the hardware picked to be tested, to methodoly and results analisys, i can say that i whole agree with the statements and conclusions. Not that i have any hope that audiots would change their opinions, but even so, it is good to know that there is still hope for humanity and some people out there are still capable of rational thinking.

 

[daglesj]

The problem with Hi-Fi gear for me is the fact that I now know that inside that $2000 box is $50 worth of parts. Sometimes not even that.What makes me laugh are the USB stick DACs that sell for $500.Caveat Emptor.

 

[panzerknacker]

'The PC As The Future of Hi-Fi' and 'Nothing can match the accuracy (bit-perfect sourcing and streaming, and no degradation over time) and convenience (thousands of losslessly-compressed albums a mouse-click away) of PCs.'These 2 statements are in no way backed up by the article because you don't test the PC vs a CD player or vs a LP player. I advise you to remove these statements because you will be surprised when comparing the PC 'file playing equipment' as tested in the article to a high-end CD player or LP turntable.Also, while I do absolutely believe the testing results that you achieved, I want to point out that this does not HAVE to be the case. I personally directly compared a Asus socket 1155 motherboard (don't remember exact model) with Realtek audio solution onboard to a smartphone (Oppo Find 5). I used the same speakerset for comparison, connected to the analog outputs of the devices through the same RCA jack cables, using the speakerset to switch inputs. I manually synched playback and used the Windows volume control to match the volume of the phone by ear. It turned out that there was a dramatic difference in sound quality in favor of the smartphone. The PC simply sounded very unclear. Then I installed a Creative Audigy X-FI card in the same PC and used the same playback method, again manually synching playback and volume to the phone. This time the difference was very small between the phone and the X-FI, we concluded that the X-FI sounded just very slightly better overal.This clearly demonstrates that not every Realtek onboard solution sounds as good as the more expensive products. There apparently are a motherboards out there that produce very mediocre sound quality. I recommend everyone to test this for themselves. If you own a good smartphone or MP3 player (these devices generally deliver very acceptible sound quality) it's easy to compare and determine if your onboard solution atleast sounds acceptible.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Paragraphs are nice.

You'll find that the second half of your statement answers the first half. The storage and reading of the data is exactly the same quality (because that's what lossless means, so any difference is down the track in the soundcard or downstream.

And I would like to see [double]blind testing - the placebo effect can be a bitch, can't it?

 

[pazuso]

How to turn a PC into a hi-fi sound system? GET RID OF THE FANS!

 

[cypeq]

"Today we even demonstrated that a $2 codec is sufficient for driving some of the most expensive headphones in the world."
It's worth to repeat it's not a complete audio solution. That $2 Codec is placed on the over the top 300$ motherboards. Remaining a terrible idea of analogue audio source.
Question stands if other integrated DAC outside the top of the line part reviewed here does or does not introduce some distortions.

Hi-Fi world is soaked with audiophiles, musicians and sound engineers who train their hearing sense whole life.
Their deliberations about differences in high-end sound equipment are on the level of F1 drivers comparing performance of different tire profiles.If I don't make 100 meter dash in 12 seconds I wouldn't have much to talk about with professional sprinter would I ? DAC discussion is one of these topics.

Distinction from 30$ and 250$ headphones is easy as pie for most of us but from 200$ to 500$ not much and higher you go it gets exponentially harder to say one pair is clearly better than the other. Higher End products rather than being winners and losers, in the race have just different characteristics and sound representation because they really all sound fantastic. Same goes for speaker sized HiFi you just have to add one zero(or two!) to the price tags.

Another big part of Hi-Fi are the people believing if they spent n times more on a device it delivers n times better sound quality. Kudos to the author for being able to say that he indeed have not heard much difference between review devices. Many would just plainly lie here zealously protecting their ego.
There are really big money involved in high end HiFi and it's really hard to separate truth from marketing mist. Many reviewers get swayed by typical 'you don't have to return test device', heck it's the same in PC world where news topics are way to often from objective journalism, or clearly some articles/news are just plain advertisements (looks at tom's ;-) ).

When you need 2000$ DAC you know it or some Hi-Fi wizard sways your judgement, It's built to flawlessly drive several inputs and outputs at the same time, cheaper solutions are generally designed for driving one audio path most often headphones (as HeadAmp).
Plenty Amps now have digital inputs eliminating need for the external DAC, back to line one 'unless you know that you need it'.

P.S. Seeing blind test of audio fidelity comparing popular ways of delivering audio from PC would be nice. DAC comparison would be below top 3 audiophile topics worth picking up here.

Agree totally with this. It always annoys me when people say they're spending over $100 on a sound card, especially when it turns out that they're using Optical out, and the whole thing is basically moot.I now have a nice source to link to.

If that's they're only use it's obvious moot. Yet with regard to gaming discrete sound cards have done a tone to distance themselves in sound source positioning.

 

[SinxarKnights]

I have never heard a Realtek chip that sounded remotely good because of their drivers (if you have ever used it, you know what I am talking about - the soul crushing distortion from the unable to be turned off auto-leveler). While this is supposed to be about high-end audio solutions with external components, many random people will find this and swear by it because "Tom's said so". Some distinction should be made as not to mislead people into assuming Realtek solutions are acceptable for normal users that plug in their headphones directly.

When you bypass the PC audio processing solution by outputting to a DAC, of course every card/chip is going to sound the same on the same DAC.

 

[cats_Paw]

Beeing a "poor" audiophile, Id say something like the Shiit UberBifrost+Asgard or even Modi+magni would have been a much more informative review than the benchmark DAC2.Many Audiophiles have stated that the main problem in audio is the same as in PC performance: Balacing your equipment so there are no bottlenecks.Using one of the best headphones in the planet (HD800) and using equipment that is nowhere near its capacity (and im not talking about a 70.000 dollar equipment) like the benchmark2, seems to me a mistake.Here is the biggest flaw of the Benchmark dac2 (from stereophile):"The DAC2 HGC doesn't use a separate audio driver to interface with the computer—it really is plug-and-play in USB1.1 mode. [Benchmark does supply a driver package, including ASIO support, for operation in USB2.0 mode.—Ed.]. However, when using a program like Media Center, having a dedicated ASIO driver comes in handy when I try to bypass as much of my laptop's audio circuits as possible. After going through Benchmark's checklist in the comprehensive manual of how to create the best settings for using the DAC2 with Windows 7, I was still unable to entirely bypass my laptop's volume control".I would be very glad if you could check some budget friendly, very popular stacks of separated AMP/DAC (Schiit uber bifrost+asgard would make more sense than the benchmark dac2), and also, if possible, using the optical input. Using the benchmark dac2 for a HD800 is very similar to buying a i3 Intel for a gaming PC with a Titan (no exageration here).It does seem you have not used a dedicated amplifier for this test (If i remmber it correctly, after the headphone itself, the amplifier is the second most important part in the quality chain). This seems to be a mistake. Even a budget friendly Schiit asgard (i talk about this one since its the one i own) changes the audio dramaticly.The thing is, a DAC without an amp is like a Great CPU for overclocking with a crappy cooler:It simply lack something to give its full potencial.You were using a HD800, one of the most ruthless Headphone ever created: If any part of your chain is weak, the HD800 will scream at it.Please note the AMP is not only required for "volume" but for dynamic ranges.However, same as in PC performance, Diminishing returns kick in rather fast.I was skeptical at first about 90% of the things i read online in audiophile forums about sublte changes in quality due to a Dac or another, etc.I learned that the best way to find out is to test yourself.Finally, please do not take these critics negativly. All audiophiles understand well enought the opinion of those who are not, because well... we were at that point before as well.

 

[gamerk316]

The failure here is the source audio you are using. You commented on it yourself: Music is typically butchered before it leaves the studio, with compressed dynamic range, and very little separation between instrumentation. By the time the audio makes it to the souncard, let alone the headphones, the quality is so bad, you can't differentiate the difference in audio quality.Hence why audiophiles have long since moved back the vinyl.

 

[chuyayala]

I have a challenge to lay down for the writers of this article as an audiophile.Nothing you have particularly referred to can be contested; you do get more features with more expensive hardware, but price isn't necessarily an indicator of quality and it is high quality audio you are looking for, not necessarily the price point. That assumption doesn't work with sound cards as the first point in the signal path to the speakers.My challenge is this: compare your ALC 889 to an E-MU 1616m PCI-E. The quality of the DACs is higher on this £250 board than other PC sources I've heard myself, and you aren't spending £2,000 to get there. I challenge you to NOT find a difference. Don't change anything else in the signal path - keep the cable that feeds to your amp, and the speaker cables the same. Then listen to audio you know very well, and you know has been recorded well. This is harder to find with current music.You aren't looking for things to sound "better" or "louder", you are looking for greater detail. A better stereo "image" as it is called, where you can place instruments being reproduced by the speakers in a notional 3-D space. That is the mark of "good" audio.I ask you to accept this challenge because without following up this statement of $2 is as good as $2,000 you will potentially mislead budding enthusiasts down a misguided path.

I also have the 1616M and I can definitely say I can hear the difference between this soundcard and my HP laptops integrated DAC. 1616m uses the Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC (their flagship DAC). What I endedup doing is going to AliExpress and buying a Chinese made box that integrates the same DAC (CS4398) and a decent Texas Instruments OPA (amplifier) for under $50. Sounds the same (minus the recording capabilities). For good sound you need the whole package:Soundcard (DAC, Amplifier)Monitor Speakers or Monitor Headphones (I use Behringer Truth monitor speakers).I do agree that MOST people won't be able to tell the difference, but when you record and master music and analyze every single detail being reproduced by the soundcard, you CAN tell the difference between DACs and Amplifiers. My 2 cents on frequencies:I can't say I can hear the difference between 96khz and 192khz, but there is a theory that basically states that the frequencies being cut off over 22khz (in 44.1khz CDs), although inaudible to the human ear do essentially have an effect on audible waves (alter its sound slightly). Some say it gives it more natural sound, it could all be Marketing BS for all I know. I feel like this article is more about practicality. Its not practical for a person that doesn't record or master for a living to buy a fancy DAC. I, on the other hand, love my CS4398 DAC on both the EMU 1616m and the cheap Chinese USB DAC I bought for a fraction of the price.

 

[ringensherre]

Thanks for a great article I have come to a similar conclusion and now my solutions are between $100 and $300 (depending on what digital inputs are needed and what has to be driven).

 

[SessouXFX]

Probably grinds plenty of 'audiophiles' gears to know that the Realtek 889 sound so close to their 1k+ gear...This also kind of proves the point gamers make about not having a sound card added to their build. It may not be the very best, but it's hardly the absolute worse ever, as oft claimed by 'audiophiles'

 

[uncola]

These reviewers are deaf or have no idea how to listen to parts of songs which make it easy to distinguish between dacs

 

[rwpritchett]

Very nice article Filippo. I'm looking forward to the low impedance article. Personally, I'm running the K550 headphones with an Aune T1 DAC/amp and having a great time re-discovering my music collection.

 

[wingfinger]

I think you need to change your music selection for testing:How about something likeThe Green Hornet from the Kill Bill SoundtrackThe Sicilian Clan (morricone)Asura - Totem from The Perfect Trance 2.0Something a bit thick, like Bach's The Wedge and Billie Ray Martin - Honey (Deep Dish Hoojee Dub) Something with some nice acoustic guitar.Maybe some piano like Enya's A Day Without RainAnd some strings like as For Love One Can Die (morricone)Some of your audiophile friends could come up with a few more that would be good for testing.(Everyone else, ya so you have a favorite album/music)

 

[razor512]

Can you test some older cards such as the audigy 2?due to the times, people purchased more soundcards in the past than now, so many people are likely to still own something like an audigy 2I personally still use my audigy 2 ZS because it sounds noticeably better than my onboard realtek audio when using my sennheiser HD555 (no additional amplifiers)(it also drives them really well, I am sure it can blow out the speakers on them).

 

[ekagori]

Great article! Enjoyed reading it! It's nice to know that unless you are in the smaller audiophile category, you can make due with a good implementation of on board audio. I'm sure that if you truly train your ear, you will be able to hear the subtle nuances of instruments and positioning of such, but for the average user it means that instead of buying a sound card that will take $50 to $200 away from your system build you can put that money towards upgrading other components and not regret your choice. What would be nice is an article with actual speakers comparing, regular pc speakers, powered studio monitors, or non-powered speakers with an amp. Although I'm not an audiophile, I do enjoy good sound, I don't use headphones as I've never enjoyed them, so I do my listening through speakers. I still use a 10 year old Altec Lansing set that do the job. So knowing whether new speakers will make a dramatic difference, I will spend the money on a new set up, otherwise I'll upgrade my 3 year old hd6950 😀

 

[wingfinger]

I think you need to change your music selection for testing:How about something likeThe Green Hornet from the Kill Bill SoundtrackThe Sicilian Clan (morricone)Asura - Totem from The Perfect Trance 2.0Something a bit thick, like Bach's The Wedge and Billie Ray Martin - Honey (Deep Dish Hoojee Dub) Something with some nice acoustic guitar.Maybe some piano like Enya's A Day Without RainAnd some strings like as For Love One Can Die (morricone)Some of your audiophile friends could come up with a few more that would be good for testing.(Everyone else, ya so you have a favorite album/music)

 

[Amdlova]

i am using the realtek 898 with AKG k77 and have some improves over my old philips. some people can`t listen. but is amazing how it sound good with pink floyd musics.

 

[hannibal]

Yes, it is easier to find differenses with certain type of the music. A good deal of modern music is heavily compressed and digitally modified. You have to ask what kind of music do you listen to! there are differences in high frequency sounds like bells and plates and low like bass drum and church organs.so if you listen to classical and other "unplugged" music it may be worth of using more money. If you listen to today's list music... well less may be better... But I have to say that I enjoy modern music with very high quality set, it is just a little bit harder to tell the difference.

 

[Hupiscratch]

Excellent article! For a more detailed test, you could write about each listener activity, as it can say a little more about each listener capabilities. A Maestro is believed to have different hearing abilities then an airline pilot. And speaking of this, inviting a Maestro to the testing should give a nice insight about how similar are these devices.

 

[Charlie Hustle]

Everything sounded the same on my pc setup as well. Itunes was indistinguishable from jriver, all dacs sounded identical, hi-rez shmi-rez. Came across this software called Fidelizer and it completely changed my opinions about jriver and dacs. hi-rez - still mostly unimpressed.

 

[megalodon1992]

Thanks for the article! Next time please also try to test integrated mac mini dac, it is a device often used for htpc. Please continue with more tests like this; consider including portable iem into the test.