[SOLVED] What is a good upgrade from a Gigabyte AB350 Gaming motherboard?

[Prestonater]

I have the motherboard stated above currently.

I just recently got an AMD Ryzen 3700x.

I know this board was not made for this core and thus may be struggling in some areas with performance. Don't get me wrong it works very well and is a significant improvement over my Ryzen 5 1600X but i personally think it could do more?

I'm unfamiliar with alot in terms of the nitty gritty in computers but have succesfully built my current rig and have my 3700X currently clocked to 4200Mhz. Any higher and the system just throws a bluescreen at my face instantly. Power for the cpu enters just over 100W on AMD master though i am unsure how reliable it is.

My rig is as follows:

Gigabyte AB350 Gaming (REV 1.X)
AMD Ryzen 3700X
16GB RAM 2400Mhz (two different models. No cover)
Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 250GB Storage
Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
A corsair 850WATT Power supply.

It's a bit of a thrown together system and would just like some guidance as to where to head next.

Thank you.

 

[Mr.Spock]

maybe the Asus X570 TUF Wifi?

 

[Prestonater]

maybe the Asus X570 TUF Wifi?

Yeah i was looking at that one.

Should i consider getting faster RAM aswell?

 

[WildCard999]

The memory could be problematic as well, Ryzen prefers fast memory in dual channel so changing your current to a 2x8gb kit @3200 could improve performance.

That being said, what errors do you see on the BSOD?

 

[Prestonater]

The memory could be problematic as well, Ryzen prefers fast memory in dual channel so changing your current to a 2x8gb kit @3200 could improve performance.

That being said, what errors do you see on the BSOD?

Just tried it with AMD master. Overclocked to 4300Mhz

Came back with an APC_INDEX_MISMATCH

Though there was one other error message from earlier trials. Can't remeber what it said but it was a long one.

 

[WildCard999]

Did you stress test the memory after overclocking?

I really doubt mismatched memory is running smoothly from 2400mhz to 4300mhz.

Or are you talking about the CPU?

 

[drea.drechsler]

I have the motherboard stated above currently.

I just recently got an AMD Ryzen 3700x.

I know this board was not made for this core and thus may be struggling in some areas with performance. Don't get me wrong it works very well and is a significant improvement over my Ryzen 5 1600X but i personally think it could do more?

I'm unfamiliar with alot in terms of the nitty gritty in computers but have succesfully built my current rig and have my 3700X currently clocked to 4200Mhz. Any higher and the system just throws a bluescreen at my face instantly. Power for the cpu enters just over 100W on AMD master though i am unsure how reliable it is.

My rig is as follows:

Gigabyte AB350 Gaming (REV 1.X)
AMD Ryzen 3700X
16GB RAM 2400Mhz (two different models. No cover)
Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 250GB Storage
Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
A corsair 850WATT Power supply.

It's a bit of a thrown together system and would just like some guidance as to where to head next.

Thank you.

I'd not change it unless you have other reasons to. To be sure, it's not really the best motherboard but it's got a decent enough VRM and with a relatively nicely heat sink on it that has quite a lot of finning to dissipate the heat with.

One thing to note, if you've locked the clocks of your CPU at 4200 you're actually hurting ultimate performance of your 3700X and very likely limiting it's life at the same time since it can never go into C6, deep sleep, and lower voltage. You really should operate that CPU at stock settings, voltage and clock multiplier in AUTO.

Go ahead and enable PBO, though. Also be sure to update your AMD chipset drivers to latest if you haven't and as well get the latest BIOS, if you haven't.

Money would be much better spent on getting some matched memory, 3200 or better. It may be an older B350 board but people are getting up to 3600 (and more) stable with ryzen 3000 on them. But it won't be just plug and play, you may have some tweaking to do using timings from the DRAM Calculator.

 

[Prestonater]

Did you stress test the memory after overclocking?

I really doubt mismatched memory is running smoothly from 2400mhz to 4300mhz.

Or are you talking about the CPU?

I'm talking about the CPU. Thats the message that appears when stress testing for a very small amount of time. I undestand its a silicon lottery and that just may be its top clock.

I'd not change it unless you have other reasons to. To be sure, it's not really the best motherboard but it's got a decent enough VRM and with a relatively nicely heat sink on it that has quite a lot of finning to dissipate the heat with.

One thing to note, if you've locked the clocks of your CPU at 4200 you're actually hurting ultimate performance of your 3700X and very likely limiting it's life at the same time since it can never go into C6, deep sleep, and lower voltage. You really should operate that CPU at stock settings, voltage and clock multiplier in AUTO.

Go ahead and enable PBO, though. Also be sure to update your AMD chipset drivers to latest if you haven't and as well get the latest BIOS, if you haven't.

Money would be much better spent on getting some matched memory, 3200 or better. It may be an older B350 board but people are getting up to 3600 (and more) stable with ryzen 3000 on them. But it won't be just plug and play, you may have some tweaking to do using timings from the DRAM Calculator.

To understand a few things you've said, Clocking this core isn't the best idea as it hurts long life performance. Whilst also not actually getting much better of an output from the clocking itself. As i understand points made in the middle paragraph.

Activating PBO? Is it the best way of getting performance whilst allowing the core to maintain most of it's other functions? Like C6; Deep sleep and lowering of the voltage? I have the latest BIOS but will need to update the AMD driver chip set.

Thank you.

 

[drea.drechsler]

....
Activating PBO? Is it the best way of getting performance whilst allowing the core to maintain most of it's other functions? Like C6; Deep sleep and lowering of the voltage? I have the latest BIOS but will need to update the AMD driver chip set.
...

Ryzen 3000 uses a boosting algorithm that's extremely well optimized for eeking the absolute most out of the chip. It boosts extremely high from low utilization, then as utilization increases it lowers the boost to keep temperature low and save the chip's lifetime. When most people lock clocks it's at a lower clock than the boosting algorithm gets on it's own. If you push it with higher voltage it can't lower clocks and voltage as utilization increases so heat increases tremendously and shortens life of the processor.

The boosting is called Performance Precision Boost (PB), PBO is Performance Precision Boosting Over-ride. It over-rides some of the parameters that limit how high and how long it will boost so it more readily hits the max clock (4.4Ghz for 3700X) stays at mid-level boosts longer (4.3-4.35Ghz) before dropping as load increases. It's the way to use the algorithm to assist, but not exactly overclock it.

Since boosting also depends on thermal headroom, better cooling helps. The stock cooler will work with the CPU in stock settings, but with this kind of boosting algorithm if the CPU raises temp more slowly the algorithm responds by dropping clocks less quickly as utilization increases.

It's not something you're likely to see with just looking at the clocks in a utility. You have to run an appropriate benchmark and see it's effects. The best is Cinebench20, run both the multi-thread and single-thread benchmark.

 

[Prestonater]

Ryzen 3000 uses a boosting algorithm that's extremely well optimized for eeking the absolute most out of the chip. It boosts extremely high from low utilization, then as utilization increases it lowers the boost to keep temperature low and save the chip's lifetime. When most people lock clocks it's at a lower clock than the boosting algorithm gets on it's own. If you push it with higher voltage it can't lower clocks as utilization increases so heat increases tremendously and shortens life of the processor.

The boosting is called Performance Boost (PB), PBO is Performance Boosting Over-ride. It over-rides some of the parameters that limit how high and how long it will boost, so it stays at mid-level boosts longer (like 4.3-4.35Ghz) before dropping as load increases. It's the way to use the algorithm to assist, but not exactly overclock it.

Ah I see. Will have to look into it.

So the base AUTO from bios i get on the AMD master is:

PPT is at 88W; TDC is at 60A and EDC is at 90A.

These are what AMD master shows at the default BIOS AUTO settings.

I'm still green when it comes to overclocking so what should i use or up to get better performance?

Thanks for the help and pointers so far. You have all been a great help.

Oh and what should i include? Cores and coltage control? Should i leave out additional control and memory or add them too? In AMD master that is.

EDIT: After a little bit of testing i have found out that my PPT will not boost over 88W. Could this be a limit of the board?

 

[drea.drechsler]

Ah I see. Will have to look into it.

So the base AUTO from bios i get on the AMD master is:

PPT is at 88W; TDC is at 60A and EDC is at 90A.

These are what AMD master shows at the default BIOS AUTO settings.

I'm still green when it comes to overclocking so what should i use or up to get better performance?

Thanks for the help and pointers so far. You have all been a great help.

Oh and what should i include? Cores and coltage control? Should i leave out additional control and memory or add them too? In AMD master that is.

I'm not really sure what you're asking....

First, I suggest doing your settings in BIOS, not RyzenMaster. The first thing to do is install your latest chipset driver, if you haven't. Get it from the AMD support site.

Hopefully you've done nothing in BIOS for overclocking...that's a good start. You have to set the following in your BIOS, under "CPU Features" or "AMD_CBS":

• Global C-state Control = Enabled
• Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle
• CPPC = Enabled
• CPPC Preferred Cores = Enabled
• AMD Cool'n'Quiet = Enabled
• PPC Adjustment = PState 0

Then set PBO to MANUAL or ENABLED to see the parameters. Even for your board, I'd just set all the parameters (PPT, EDC and TDC) to the highest number they'll take.

That's it. Now the CPU can tell the OS what it's best cores are, so the OS can use those preferentially when scheduling threads. Also, the boosting algorithm can let the CPU stretch out and not worry about power or current limits from the VRM.

 

[Prestonater]

I'm not really sure what you're asking....

First, I suggest doing your settings in BIOS, not RyzenMaster. The first thing to do is install your latest chipset driver, if you haven't. Get it from the AMD support site.

Hopefully you've done nothing in BIOS for overclocking...that's a good start. You have to set the following in your BIOS, under "CPU Features" or "AMD_CBS":

• Global C-state Control = Enabled
• Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle
• CPPC = Enabled
• CPPC Preferred Cores = Enabled
• AMD Cool'n'Quiet = Enabled
• PPC Adjustment = PState 0

Then set PBO to MANUAL or ENABLED to see the parameters. Even for your board, I'd just set all the parameters (PPT, EDC and TDC) to the highest number they'll take.

That's it. Now the CPU can tell the OS what it's best cores are, so the OS can use those preferentially when scheduling threads. Also, the boosting algorithm can let the CPU stretch out and not worry about power or current limits from the VRM.

OK i have been into the depths of the BIOS on this one.

Took a while to find the PBO settings. Manage to find it in two areas, (AMD_CBS and AMD_OVERCLOCKING). I set them both to manaul and input the same PPT, EDC and TDC values. Of which this bios is set to very high acceptance. Over 1000 on each setting. I didn't got that far. The problem i have now, After testing on manual, Is I have set one to enable and the other to motherboard and the PPT will go no higher than 88W. Even with manaul inputs. My guess is that the motherboard cannot got beyond a PPT of 88W and thus that is my limit.

With everything that you have said above put into practice my cpu clocks itself to 3900-3950 Mhz and never goes above 60 degrees celcius. So i guess everything is working as intended. No stupidly high temps and no blue screens.

Thank you for your help!

 

[drea.drechsler]

OK i have been into the depths of the BIOS on this one.

Took a while to find the PBO settings. Manage to find it in two areas, (AMD_CBS and AMD_OVERCLOCKING). I set them both to manaul and input the same PPT, EDC and TDC values. Of which this bios is set to very high acceptance. Over 1000 on each setting. I didn't got that far. The problem i have now, After testing on manual, Is I have set one to enable and the other to motherboard and the PPT will go no higher than 88W. Even with manaul inputs. My guess is that the motherboard cannot got beyond a PPT of 88W and thus that is my limit.

With everything that you have said above put into practice my cpu clocks itself to 3900-3950 Mhz and never goes above 60 degrees celcius. So i guess everything is working as intended. No stupidly high temps and no blue screens.

Thank you for your help!

I'm really not familiar with gigabyte bios so not sure why PBO settings might be in two places. When you put it in MOTHERBOARD it might just be limiting it to what AMD says a 'stock' 3700X is...ppt of 88w. I'd not worry about using a setting that lets you take all three to the max.

If you run what's considered a light bursty load you should be able to see it boosting to 4.4Ghz. I do that by running a defender virusscan, it seems to work pretty well. But the real test of it's performance is checking benchmarks. Best is cinebench20.

 

[Prestonater]

I'm really not familiar with gigabyte bios so not sure why PBO settings might be in two places. When you put it in MOTHERBOARD it might just be limiting it to what AMD says a 'stock' 3700X is...ppt of 88w. I'd not worry about using a setting that lets you take all three to the max.

If you run what's considered a light bursty load you should be able to see it boosting to 4.4Ghz. I do that by running a defender virusscan, it seems to work pretty well. But the real test of it's performance is checking benchmarks. Best is cinebench20.

Hmm, something isn't happy then. Running Cinebench20 it boosts to 3950Mhz maximum. won't go any higher. i have all settings on default except the ones you stated to change which shouldn't affect clocking capabilities. I may be barking up the wrong tree but the 88W power was also the same when i changed the settings manually.

I may have to look into the BIOS in more depth. see if something is stopping it from clocking higher, Though what that may be is currently beyond me. May also have to look into something that explains the gigabyte BIOS.

EDIT: So I did a little more digging and it turns out gigabyte have thier own setting for PPT on the BIOS aswell. So thats 3 areas in which i can change the PPT limits but the BIOS limit overrides AMD's. Putting it to 1000W allows the core to reach just over 100W in power and a new limit clock of 4200Mhz. It never gets to 4400 and it starts getting to around 71-72 degrees using Cinebench20. It also pumps 1.38-1.4 volts through it aswell. I'm thinking of just limiting it to 95 and call it a day there.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hmm, something isn't happy then. Running Cinebench20 it boosts to 3950Mhz maximum. won't go any higher. i have all settings on default except the ones you stated to change which shouldn't affect clocking capabilities. I may be barking up the wrong tree but the 88W power was also the same when i changed the settings manually.

I may have to look into the BIOS in more depth. see if something is stopping it from clocking higher, Though what that may be is currently beyond me. May also have to look into something that explains the gigabyte BIOS.

EDIT: So I did a little more digging and it turns out gigabyte have thier own setting for PPT on the BIOS aswell. So thats 3 areas in which i can change the PPT limits but the BIOS limit overrides AMD's. Putting it to 1000W allows the core to reach just over 100W in power and a new limit clock of 4200Mhz. It never gets to 4400 and it starts getting to around 71-72 degrees using Cinebench20. It also pumps 1.38-1.4 volts through it aswell. I'm thinking of just limiting it to 95 and call it a day there.

Since clocks will vary because of thermal loads you really can't tell much looking at them alone. What was the CB20 score, that's what matters.

Also. I was just watching an interesting video on PBO...it seems limiting the settings can be helpful due AMD's current implementation. Try just setting the three to no higher than 230...TDC, EDC and PPT.

The thing to remember. The 3700X's base clock is 3600, so with everything set up 'stock' (no PBO running) and running an extremely heavy, steady load (much like CB20) the clock speed will be in the 3600-3650 Mhz range. So, in your case, even 3950 is a significant improvement with PBO although I'm sure there's more to be had.

And one other thing: do not worry about the voltage going up when it boosts. It's normal, and by design, to raise voltage in light loads up to 1.5V. There's a lot of misunderstanding about voltage with Ryzen, so be careful.

 

[Prestonater]

Since clocks will vary because of thermal loads you really can't tell much looking at them alone. What was the CB20 score, that's what matters.

Also. I was just watching an interesting video on PBO...it seems limiting the settings can be helpful due AMD's current implementation. Try just setting the three to no higher than 230...TDC, EDC and PPT.

The thing to remember. The 3700X's base clock is 3600, so with everything set up 'stock' (no PBO running) and running an extremely heavy, steady load (much like CB20) the clock speed will be in the 3600-3650 Mhz range. So, in your case, even 3950 is a significant improvement with PBO although I'm sure there's more to be had.

And one other thing: do not worry about the voltage going up when it boosts. It's normal, and by design, to raise voltage in light loads up to 1.5V. There's a lot of misunderstanding about voltage with Ryzen, so be careful.

Right, my score in CB20 was 4701. Better than stock with no boosting at 4531. I'm managing to get it up to 4200Mhz with the PBO set as is. I will try limiting things tomorrow and see where I go from there.

Thank you for the infromation and support on this matter. you've been a great help.

EDIT: After some testing and research i have come to realise that I'm using a 4 pin power supply for my CPU. This may be the problem. I have lowered the PBO values and have seen a marginal increase in CB20 scores of about 100. I have now ordered an adaptor for an 8pin CPU connector that should hopefully sort things out.