bunz_of_steel
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You heard it here first: Black Friday 2024 has arrived!
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bunz_of_steel
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neiroatopelcc
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[citation][nom]nelson_nel[/nom]I can't wait to buy Windows 7 and strip it down to a dummy terminal... haha[/citation]
you kinda already have that ! windows 2008 server can be installed in a very stripped version without all the gui stuff that isn't nessecary.
you kinda already have that ! windows 2008 server can be installed in a very stripped version without all the gui stuff that isn't nessecary.
neiroatopelcc
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[citation][nom]tenor77[/nom]I love how every article about Win 7 is going to have at least 1 comment how it's just a repackaged Vista, usually from someone who doesn't even have Vista lol.I don't either. Still on XP at work and home but I'm willing to give it a shot.[/citation]
I've had vista at home for 2 years now with various stones, and boulders, on the road. But overall I like it.
I like it enough that I'm even using it at work at the moment. Admittedly it wasn't a hard choice when I had to pick between vista 64 or xp 64 (6gb memory), but still I did pick vista. And it works fine at work. Not a single problem found so far - except for psinfo not running in the login script that is. 16bit stuff.
I've had vista at home for 2 years now with various stones, and boulders, on the road. But overall I like it.
I like it enough that I'm even using it at work at the moment. Admittedly it wasn't a hard choice when I had to pick between vista 64 or xp 64 (6gb memory), but still I did pick vista. And it works fine at work. Not a single problem found so far - except for psinfo not running in the login script that is. 16bit stuff.
grieve
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- Apr 19, 2004
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[citation][nom]MDillenbeck[/nom]The best feature will be the ability to strip down the OS to just the components you want. I also think this might make it more appealing for businesses.[/citation]
I agree, this is a great feature. Unfortunately it seems you have to install these with Windows 7 and remove them after the install is complete.
Just this weekend i was creating a new dual boot image Vista/XP and the first thing i do in XP is go into Services and disable almost 50 services.
I agree, this is a great feature. Unfortunately it seems you have to install these with Windows 7 and remove them after the install is complete.
Just this weekend i was creating a new dual boot image Vista/XP and the first thing i do in XP is go into Services and disable almost 50 services.
neiroatopelcc
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[citation][nom]grieve[/nom]I agree, this is a great feature. Unfortunately it seems you have to install these with Windows 7 and remove them after the install is complete.Just this weekend i was creating a new dual boot image Vista/XP and the first thing i do in XP is go into Services and disable almost 50 services.[/citation]
Well since these features are going to be removable, I don't see why nlite can't be adapted to removing them from the wim image files before the actual instal. So there'll possibly be a way around disabling stuff after it's been installed.
Well since these features are going to be removable, I don't see why nlite can't be adapted to removing them from the wim image files before the actual instal. So there'll possibly be a way around disabling stuff after it's been installed.
nekatreven
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- Feb 20, 2007
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[citation][nom]Nemo888[/nom]Vista was such a gold plated turd I don't see why anyone would ever pay money to own it. The "New" 7 has the same kernel as Vista and is full of even more disturbing and invasive DRM. The faster hardware would need an extra 40 watts of electricity just to run this flaming turd as fast as XP. We didn't need a new OS, let alone an unfinished broken pile of shiny crap.[/citation]
I'm going to assume you're a mac user because linux users usually act a little more...well...older than five years old.
"let alone an unfinished broken pile of shiny crap."
This confuses me though...cause I thought mac users liked shiny things.
I'm going to assume you're a mac user because linux users usually act a little more...well...older than five years old.
"let alone an unfinished broken pile of shiny crap."
This confuses me though...cause I thought mac users liked shiny things.
Q: Will it be Faster/Lighter on the same/equal hardware?
A: No, It will be slower and heavier in general for totally unjustifiable reasons like being prettier or having a few new but not better, totally non-essential features.
Q: Will it be more productive? Will I be able to accomplish every day tasks easier and with less clicks?
A: No, The same disadvantages that could be found when going from XP to Vista are present in Windows 7. Several things take more clicks and give a less productive workflow.
This is compound by being heavier and therefore slower in general on equal hardware.
Q: Is there any good reason to switch from XP?
A: DirectX 10 could be considered one reason. Graphics are noticeably improved in most cases.
Another might be x64 but it is currently very rare to find software that makes good use of it and at this point many are actaully running slower on x64. Hopefully this will be addressed as time goes on. MS not releasing a x86 version would have helped this a great deal but they decided not to do this.
The other thing about x64 is that you can have more than 3.5 Gb of RAM installed and used in your machine. Most users should never need more than 2 Gb in most cases though and thinking that more is better even if it's not being used is just ignorant.
Q: So what are we really being sold?
A: A heavier, less productive shinny new gimmick.
I really wish it weren't so but I'm not dumb enough to not see it for what it really is.
Most users are stuck with windows for many reasons. I just wish they would actaully improve the OS and not continue to make it worse.
Just to note.. I can't stand Apple in general let alone Macs.
A: No, It will be slower and heavier in general for totally unjustifiable reasons like being prettier or having a few new but not better, totally non-essential features.
Q: Will it be more productive? Will I be able to accomplish every day tasks easier and with less clicks?
A: No, The same disadvantages that could be found when going from XP to Vista are present in Windows 7. Several things take more clicks and give a less productive workflow.
This is compound by being heavier and therefore slower in general on equal hardware.
Q: Is there any good reason to switch from XP?
A: DirectX 10 could be considered one reason. Graphics are noticeably improved in most cases.
Another might be x64 but it is currently very rare to find software that makes good use of it and at this point many are actaully running slower on x64. Hopefully this will be addressed as time goes on. MS not releasing a x86 version would have helped this a great deal but they decided not to do this.
The other thing about x64 is that you can have more than 3.5 Gb of RAM installed and used in your machine. Most users should never need more than 2 Gb in most cases though and thinking that more is better even if it's not being used is just ignorant.
Q: So what are we really being sold?
A: A heavier, less productive shinny new gimmick.
I really wish it weren't so but I'm not dumb enough to not see it for what it really is.
Most users are stuck with windows for many reasons. I just wish they would actaully improve the OS and not continue to make it worse.
Just to note.. I can't stand Apple in general let alone Macs.
neiroatopelcc
Distinguished
- Oct 3, 2006
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[citation][nom]messa[/nom]Q: Will it be Faster/Lighter on the same/equal hardware?A: No, It will be slower and heavier in general for totally unjustifiable reasons like being prettier or having a few new but not better, totally non-essential features.Q: Will it be more productive? Will I be able to accomplish every day tasks easier and with less clicks?A: No, The same disadvantages that could be found when going from XP to Vista are present in Windows 7. Several things take more clicks and give a less productive workflow.This is compound by being heavier and therefore slower in general on equal hardware.Q: Is there any good reason to switch from XP?A: DirectX 10 could be considered one reason. Graphics are noticeably improved in most cases.Another might be x64 but it is currently very rare to find software that makes good use of it and at this point many are actaully running slower on x64. Hopefully this will be addressed as time goes on. MS not releasing a x86 version would have helped this a great deal but they decided not to do this.The other thing about x64 is that you can have more than 3.5 Gb of RAM installed and used in your machine. Most users should never need more than 2 Gb in most cases though and thinking that more is better even if it's not being used is just ignorant.Q: So what are we really being sold?A: A heavier, less productive shinny new gimmick.I really wish it weren't so but I'm not dumb enough to not see it for what it really is.Most users are stuck with windows for many reasons. I just wish they would actaully improve the OS and not continue to make it worse.Just to note.. I can't stand Apple in general let alone Macs.[/citation]
Ehh for how long have you been using computers? or at least how long have you been using windows 7?
Personally I haven't used it at all myself, but if there's something I've noticed, then it's that hardware requirements have generally been said to be LOWER than on vista. And the system being more responsive is something microsoft actually put a great deal of effort into, as far as I could read.
From a productivity standpoint you could potentially be right, if win7 is the same as vista. Vista is possibly the best OS ever for ignorant users, as it's intuitive and easy to use. But it's not practical in a working enviroment where you just need a job done, and actually know how to get it done.
There are serveral good reasons to switch from xp to win7. One being improved compatibility with windows 2000 software that didn't run properly on xp, another is the absense of 16 bit support which is a great way to make the system more stable. Also the fact that you point out with 64bit as only release type is actually a GOOD thing! It means hardware and software vendors only have to focus on a single system type, and thus more might be inclined to actually write drivers and patches for legacy stuff that might've not worked in vista. Also vista 32 was so buggy that it's probably good to leave it behind.
ps. your 2GB max needed claim is completely unrealistic! If you're running inventor 2009 on a system with only 2GB memory, and are using a local installation of the content database, you'll wish you hadn't listened to whomever said 2GB was enough. Even 3GB would be insufficient for that. And in general, anyone using serveral applications at once will be well served to have more than 2GB memory. Each 32bit application can address 2GB memory. Run 2 of those, and you're fucked. Also, if you're talking about games - remember that most directx applications require a local copy of some of the graphics memory, which means users with a 8800gtx (768mb) or the big modern cards with 1gb memory will find even 3GB is a bit on the low side. Especially if you're still running msn with it's shared folders service active, and have your p2p software and an internet explorer open as well.
Also, for server considerations 64bit is essential. As an example, Siemens has delivered us a system to control temperatures, airflow, lighting and all kinds of stuff. But apart from being absurdly incompetent, they've also decided to install one of the two servers on a discount siemens server running windows xp. So the database running on it will occassionally find itself with insufficient memory to run, and crashes. 2GB is NOT enough. When I built systems for people I always go for 4GB memory, and when I suggest laptops I have only two requirements (non-gaming laptops). 1) a dualcore cpu of either make. 2) 3GB memory or more.
And as for your last Q/A - that honestly only applies to OSX - every other os on the marked is purpose built for something other than looks.
Bottom line is, I don't really think you know what you're talking about. Windows 7 surely won't be perfect for everyone's needs, as no OS can accomplish that, but I don't believe anything you've claimed.
Ehh for how long have you been using computers? or at least how long have you been using windows 7?
Personally I haven't used it at all myself, but if there's something I've noticed, then it's that hardware requirements have generally been said to be LOWER than on vista. And the system being more responsive is something microsoft actually put a great deal of effort into, as far as I could read.
From a productivity standpoint you could potentially be right, if win7 is the same as vista. Vista is possibly the best OS ever for ignorant users, as it's intuitive and easy to use. But it's not practical in a working enviroment where you just need a job done, and actually know how to get it done.
There are serveral good reasons to switch from xp to win7. One being improved compatibility with windows 2000 software that didn't run properly on xp, another is the absense of 16 bit support which is a great way to make the system more stable. Also the fact that you point out with 64bit as only release type is actually a GOOD thing! It means hardware and software vendors only have to focus on a single system type, and thus more might be inclined to actually write drivers and patches for legacy stuff that might've not worked in vista. Also vista 32 was so buggy that it's probably good to leave it behind.
ps. your 2GB max needed claim is completely unrealistic! If you're running inventor 2009 on a system with only 2GB memory, and are using a local installation of the content database, you'll wish you hadn't listened to whomever said 2GB was enough. Even 3GB would be insufficient for that. And in general, anyone using serveral applications at once will be well served to have more than 2GB memory. Each 32bit application can address 2GB memory. Run 2 of those, and you're fucked. Also, if you're talking about games - remember that most directx applications require a local copy of some of the graphics memory, which means users with a 8800gtx (768mb) or the big modern cards with 1gb memory will find even 3GB is a bit on the low side. Especially if you're still running msn with it's shared folders service active, and have your p2p software and an internet explorer open as well.
Also, for server considerations 64bit is essential. As an example, Siemens has delivered us a system to control temperatures, airflow, lighting and all kinds of stuff. But apart from being absurdly incompetent, they've also decided to install one of the two servers on a discount siemens server running windows xp. So the database running on it will occassionally find itself with insufficient memory to run, and crashes. 2GB is NOT enough. When I built systems for people I always go for 4GB memory, and when I suggest laptops I have only two requirements (non-gaming laptops). 1) a dualcore cpu of either make. 2) 3GB memory or more.
And as for your last Q/A - that honestly only applies to OSX - every other os on the marked is purpose built for something other than looks.
Bottom line is, I don't really think you know what you're talking about. Windows 7 surely won't be perfect for everyone's needs, as no OS can accomplish that, but I don't believe anything you've claimed.
[citation][nom]neiroatopelcc[/nom]Ehh for how long have you been using computers? or at least how long have you been using windows 7? Personally I haven't used it at all myself, but if there's something I've noticed, then it's that hardware requirements have generally been said to be LOWER than on vista. And the system being more responsive is something microsoft actually put a great deal of effort into, as far as I could read.From a productivity standpoint you could potentially be right, if win7 is the same as vista. Vista is possibly the best OS ever for ignorant users, as it's intuitive and easy to use. But it's not practical in a working enviroment where you just need a job done, and actually know how to get it done.There are serveral good reasons to switch from xp to win7. One being improved compatibility with windows 2000 software that didn't run properly on xp, another is the absense of 16 bit support which is a great way to make the system more stable. Also the fact that you point out with 64bit as only release type is actually a GOOD thing! It means hardware and software vendors only have to focus on a single system type, and thus more might be inclined to actually write drivers and patches for legacy stuff that might've not worked in vista. Also vista 32 was so buggy that it's probably good to leave it behind.ps. your 2GB max needed claim is completely unrealistic! If you're running inventor 2009 on a system with only 2GB memory, and are using a local installation of the content database, you'll wish you hadn't listened to whomever said 2GB was enough. Even 3GB would be insufficient for that. And in general, anyone using serveral applications at once will be well served to have more than 2GB memory. Each 32bit application can address 2GB memory. Run 2 of those, and you're fucked. Also, if you're talking about games - remember that most directx applications require a local copy of some of the graphics memory, which means users with a 8800gtx (768mb) or the big modern cards with 1gb memory will find even 3GB is a bit on the low side. Especially if you're still running msn with it's shared folders service active, and have your p2p software and an internet explorer open as well. Also, for server considerations 64bit is essential. As an example, Siemens has delivered us a system to control temperatures, airflow, lighting and all kinds of stuff. But apart from being absurdly incompetent, they've also decided to install one of the two servers on a discount siemens server running windows xp. So the database running on it will occassionally find itself with insufficient memory to run, and crashes. 2GB is NOT enough. When I built systems for people I always go for 4GB memory, and when I suggest laptops I have only two requirements (non-gaming laptops). 1) a dualcore cpu of either make. 2) 3GB memory or more.And as for your last Q/A - that honestly only applies to OSX - every other os on the marked is purpose built for something other than looks. Bottom line is, I don't really think you know what you're talking about. Windows 7 surely won't be perfect for everyone's needs, as no OS can accomplish that, but I don't believe anything you've claimed.[/citation]
I'm a full time web developer and usually spend 12 hours or more a day on the computer.
First of all. You haven't used it and you're the expert?
Have you even looked at screenshots or benchmarks?
This is exactly the problem. You get all these people who don't think before they speak and have no real information to base their opinions on and that's how we get people saying that they can't wait for Win7.
Ignorance is contagious. Don't spread it around..
If you keep eating up what ever ms dishs out we're all going to end up paying for it in the end.
Second, I mentioned that it WOULD have been good if they had only released a x64 version but they are releasing both x64 and x86.
This is going to make the switch over to x64 drag it's feet even more.
(You didn't know that and you're telling me what's what??)
Third, I'm being unrealistic about Most users only needing 2Gb of RAM?
Do you think that "Most" users are using inventor?
Do you think that "Most" users are stupid enough to be running their P2P program and Browsing while playing their high demand games?
Fourth, I don't know about you but to me Linux x86 (CentOS) is essential for server configurations.. Not Windows at all.
I'm a full time web developer and usually spend 12 hours or more a day on the computer.
First of all. You haven't used it and you're the expert?
Have you even looked at screenshots or benchmarks?
This is exactly the problem. You get all these people who don't think before they speak and have no real information to base their opinions on and that's how we get people saying that they can't wait for Win7.
Ignorance is contagious. Don't spread it around..
If you keep eating up what ever ms dishs out we're all going to end up paying for it in the end.
Second, I mentioned that it WOULD have been good if they had only released a x64 version but they are releasing both x64 and x86.
This is going to make the switch over to x64 drag it's feet even more.
(You didn't know that and you're telling me what's what??)
Third, I'm being unrealistic about Most users only needing 2Gb of RAM?
Do you think that "Most" users are using inventor?
Do you think that "Most" users are stupid enough to be running their P2P program and Browsing while playing their high demand games?
Fourth, I don't know about you but to me Linux x86 (CentOS) is essential for server configurations.. Not Windows at all.
neiroatopelcc
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[citation][nom]messa[/nom]I'm a full time web developer and usually spend 12 hours or more a day on the computer.First of all. You haven't used it and you're the expert?Have you even looked at screenshots or benchmarks?This is exactly the problem. You get all these people who don't think before they speak and have no real information to base their opinions on and that's how we get people saying that they can't wait for Win7.Ignorance is contagious. Don't spread it around..If you keep eating up what ever ms dishs out we're all going to end up paying for it in the end.Second, I mentioned that it WOULD have been good if they had only released a x64 version but they are releasing both x64 and x86.This is going to make the switch over to x64 drag it's feet even more.(You didn't know that and you're telling me what's what??)Third, I'm being unrealistic about Most users only needing 2Gb of RAM?Do you think that "Most" users are using inventor?Do you think that "Most" users are stupid enough to be running their P2P program and Browsing while playing their high demand games?Fourth, I don't know about you but to me Linux x86 (CentOS) is essential for server configurations.. Not Windows at all.[/citation]
Me expert ? Not on windows 7 I am not. That is why I mentioned that I hadn't used it. But I have worked with windows since 3.11, and have had vista on my gaming computer since february 2007, so I know the basis which win 7 is based on. And therefore I know that 2GB is the absolute minimum, not the maximum.
And yes I do think that people are 'stupid enough' to run p2p, browsing and games at once. In fact everyone who has a system equivalent to the $625 rigs they build in thg marathons does that. Myself included. I always have my email open (owa), winamp, msn and sometimes a dc++ client.
As for benchmarks - vista is actually doing better in many gaming benchmarks than xp is, and vista was doing very badly in benchmarks in rc stages. So I don't give much value to such benchmarks before the rtm release.
And as for servers - The only server I have that runs centos is a firewall/dhcp/nat server that is experimental. Almost everything else at work runs on windows servers, except for the main firewall that is a linux. Appearently the windows isa didn't do well with 13 lan adapters (I wasn't involved in that server). In my world, linux is only useful for low footprint systems like printers, esx, nas, accesspoints and the like. And for network management where you can't use an isa server. Everything else you're better off with windows.
So I still think you don't actually know what you're talking about. But I suppose writing web apps isn't the same as digging into operating systems. I don't have any competences in web developments though, so I don't know how much or little you need to know about operating systems to do that job well. But I can't imagine it being crucial.
Me expert ? Not on windows 7 I am not. That is why I mentioned that I hadn't used it. But I have worked with windows since 3.11, and have had vista on my gaming computer since february 2007, so I know the basis which win 7 is based on. And therefore I know that 2GB is the absolute minimum, not the maximum.
And yes I do think that people are 'stupid enough' to run p2p, browsing and games at once. In fact everyone who has a system equivalent to the $625 rigs they build in thg marathons does that. Myself included. I always have my email open (owa), winamp, msn and sometimes a dc++ client.
As for benchmarks - vista is actually doing better in many gaming benchmarks than xp is, and vista was doing very badly in benchmarks in rc stages. So I don't give much value to such benchmarks before the rtm release.
And as for servers - The only server I have that runs centos is a firewall/dhcp/nat server that is experimental. Almost everything else at work runs on windows servers, except for the main firewall that is a linux. Appearently the windows isa didn't do well with 13 lan adapters (I wasn't involved in that server). In my world, linux is only useful for low footprint systems like printers, esx, nas, accesspoints and the like. And for network management where you can't use an isa server. Everything else you're better off with windows.
So I still think you don't actually know what you're talking about. But I suppose writing web apps isn't the same as digging into operating systems. I don't have any competences in web developments though, so I don't know how much or little you need to know about operating systems to do that job well. But I can't imagine it being crucial.
captaincharisma
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JonnyDough
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JonnyDough
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When will Microsoft give us a GAMING OS that doesn't have all the extra crap? You should be able to download extra stuff for free, and choose which type of installation you want and/or choices as you install. Why should we have to install a ton of extra crap? I believe the following list is a good start of what an average user wants:
Simple networking (and wireless)
Simple one click internet browsing
Fast boot times
Automatic energy saving features
Streamlined gaming with availability to all of the system's resources
Better built in security from hackers and viruses (the hardware industry needs to work more closely with software developers to build hardware security into systems)
Forget caching everything into ram. With SSDs and faster systems this won't matter much anyway, as SSDs work closer to the speed of RAM. I mean seriously, most basic programs don't need to be getting much larger any more either. So Microsoft, please go back to a thinner build more like Win95. Just design it smarter, not bigger. Not all features and graphical crap is really required by everyone. It's nice to have a pretty GUI, but not at the expense of speed. At least, not for me. I tend to turn everything off so that I can game at better frame rates.
Simple networking (and wireless)
Simple one click internet browsing
Fast boot times
Automatic energy saving features
Streamlined gaming with availability to all of the system's resources
Better built in security from hackers and viruses (the hardware industry needs to work more closely with software developers to build hardware security into systems)
Forget caching everything into ram. With SSDs and faster systems this won't matter much anyway, as SSDs work closer to the speed of RAM. I mean seriously, most basic programs don't need to be getting much larger any more either. So Microsoft, please go back to a thinner build more like Win95. Just design it smarter, not bigger. Not all features and graphical crap is really required by everyone. It's nice to have a pretty GUI, but not at the expense of speed. At least, not for me. I tend to turn everything off so that I can game at better frame rates.
squatchman
Distinguished
- Oct 31, 2008
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I always find the internet tough guy types that post on these threads to be amusing. As long as you understand that they have no idea what they're talking about then you can take away the same kind of mirth that I experience at these times.
Some food for thought:
All of the competition for the PC OS market is giving their product away.
People whined about the same exact issues surrounding Windows XP when it launched back in '01.
... and to the kid a few posts back complaining about the default background? Nobody is forcing you to look at a picture of the same fish for the rest of your life. Nut up and change it to a picture of the Killers or Slipknot or some other garbage band kids listen to these days.
Some food for thought:
All of the competition for the PC OS market is giving their product away.
People whined about the same exact issues surrounding Windows XP when it launched back in '01.
... and to the kid a few posts back complaining about the default background? Nobody is forcing you to look at a picture of the same fish for the rest of your life. Nut up and change it to a picture of the Killers or Slipknot or some other garbage band kids listen to these days.
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