When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

In message <3f3g8qF5q7iiU1@individual.net> "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

>Jer wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> The half-dozen Vonage people that I know don't carry it around with
>> them, more because it requires a broadband interface, and those
>> don't grow on every street corner. I suppose if one were to plug
>> their VoIP adapter into a hotel internet connection, then one's
>> location could not be assured. But, broadband services are
>> delivered to a fixed location, and therefore are predictably
>> trackable for 911 location services.
>
>If you're there. I *do* take my adaptor with me when I go on holiday (my
>friends who I stay with have ADSL). I also know several people who use
>VoIP ATA's at work and take them home with them so they can work from home
>if they need to.
>
>Also you're making the dangerous assumption that the whole world is the
>USA and uses 911 for emergency access. We don't here in the UK and if I
>take my ATA to the US with me which country's emergency services would I
>get..? Which number would I dial, 911 or the UK's 999..?

Ideally both should be supported since 999 doesn't go anywhere else.


--
Microsoft: Putting the PR into proprietary.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

Hmm, that's going to be an interesting problem to solve, someone using
VoIP through an EV-DO card in a laptop while traveling. Some of us have been
smart enough to keep our plain old telephone service for precisely this
reason.

--
Thomas M. Goethe


"Williams" <c-williams3@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1116548095.728159.259910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Internet Phones Given 911 Deadline
> May 19, 2005
>
> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Internet phone providers were ordered Thursday to
> begin supplying reliable 911 emergency call service after regulators
> heard an anguished Florida woman describe how she was unable to summon
> help to save her dying infant daughter.
>
> The Federal Communication Commission gave companies 120 days to certify
> that their customers will be able to reach an emergency dispatcher when
> they call 911. Also, dispatchers must be able to tell where callers are
> located and the numbers from which they are calling.
>
> Her voice breaking, Cheryl Waller of Deltona, Fla., told the
> commissioners before their vote that ''120 days is seven days longer
> than my daughter lived.'' Julia Waller ''died at 113 days old because I
> can't reach an operator,'' she said.
>
> Waller said she got a recording when she used her Internet phone to
> call 911 after her daughter stopped breathing last March. By the time
> she was able to summon help with a neighbor's phone, the child was
> dead.
>
> FCC Chairman Kevin J. Martin, who began a push for the 911 rules soon
> after taking over the agency in March, said such situations are
> ''simply unacceptable.''
>
> ''Anyone who dials 911 has a reasonable expectation that he or she will
> be connected to an emergency operator,'' Martin said.
>
> Internet phone service, known as Voice over Internet Protocol, or VoIP,
> shifts calls from wires and switches, using computers and broadband
> connections to convert sounds into data and transmit them via the
> Internet.
>
> In many cases, subscribers use conventional phones hooked up to
> high-speed Internet lines.
>
> But unlike traditional phones, which have a fixed address that a 911
> operator can quickly call up, Internet phone service can be mobile.
> Someone with a laptop who signs up for service in Arizona, for example,
> may end up calling 911 for an emergency while on a trip to Boston.
>
> Roughly half the nation's estimated 1.5 million VoIP users are served
> by cable television companies that already provide full-blown 911
> capabilities because they only offer phone service to a fixed location.
>
> The FCC's order requires companies that allow customers to use their
> Internet phones anywhere there is an Internet connection to provide the
> same emergency capability.
>
> The order follow months of finger-pointing and bickering between VoIP
> carriers and the traditional local phone companies that own the network
> connections to the nation's nearly 6,200 ''public safety answer
> points.''
>
> The FCC order, approved by a 4-0 vote, requires local phone companies
> to provide access to their E-911 networks -- those that enable
> emergency operators to identify the location and telephone number of
> the caller -- to any telecommunications carrier.
>
> Just before the FCC issued its order, Vonage Holdings Corp., one of the
> largest VoIP carriers, said it had reached an agreement with BellSouth
> and SBC Communications to purchase E-911 services for its customers.
>
> BellSouth confirmed the deal. A spokesman for SBC said the arrangement
> has not been completed. Vonage reached a similar deal with Verizon last
> week.
>
> John Rego, Vonage's chief financial officer, said arrangements with the
> three companies will enable Vonage to provide E-911 capability to more
> than 75 percent of its customers. He said negotiations are continuing
> with Qwest Communications on a deal to cover the other 25 percent.
>
> ''We've been trying to get this access for a year,'' Rego said. ''We'll
> work as diligently as we can to make this happen in the next 120 days.
> If we don't get there, the FCC will at least be able to see we've made
> a very good faith effort.''
>
> Companies that fail to meet the 120-day deadline would be subject to
> the full range of FCC enforcement actions, including fines and
> cease-and-desist orders.
>
> Under the order, VoIP carriers must provide a way for customers to
> update their location and callback numbers when they travel. Failure to
> update that information would cause an emergency operator to assume the
> call was coming from the last registered location.
>
> The order also requires VoIP carriers to explain to their customers the
> capabilities and limitations of the emergency response service they are
> getting with their Internet phones. Connection to a 911 operator, for
> example, would not be possible for a VOIP customer if there is a power
> failure or loss of Internet connection.
>
> Internet phone service usually is cheaper than traditional service,
> ranging from $20 to $50 per month for an unlimited national calling
> plan. As a result, it has become a rapidly growing industry, something
> federal regulators said they did not want to slow.
>
> But, commissioner Jonathan Adelstein said, ''We cannot let our desire
> to see VoIP proliferate come at the cost of providing the best
> emergency services available today, nor can we afford to take any steps
> backward.''
>
> The order does not apply to other Internet-based providers, such as
> those that offer instant messaging or gaming services that contain
> voice components.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

>911 is one of those things in life where it's better to make no effort
>at all then to make the effort and get it wrong. If I dial 911 and say
>"Help! My house is on fire!" and the dispatchers says "Help is on the
>way, a fire truck will be there within 3 minutes", I'm probably not
>going to try to escape myself (since chances are I'm safer in my bedroom
>with a source of fresh oxygen then if I open the door and try to make it
>through a smoke+fire filled hallway -- It's not possible to attempt
>escape through the bedroom window)

There are lessons here. One is that if you call 911, TELL THEM
WHERE YOU WANT HELP (assuming, of course, that you are able to).
What type of help you want comes first, though.

Just because YOU are at a payphone outside a 7-11, that doesn't
mean that the guy trapped in an overturned car is there rather than
half a mile down the road. GPS is nice, but I bet it doesn't send
ALTITUDE over cell phones, so whether you're on the overpass or
underpass may affect how long it takes to get an ambulance to you,
even if GPS is accurate down to the millimeter. And if you're on
the side of the freeway, the GPS may not be able to tell whether
you're on the freeway or the access road (maps may not cover every
curve of the road, even if GPS is 100% accurate), so again it might
matter in getting an ambulance to you. It's also my observation
that GPS doesn't work too well inside high-rise office buildings,
(couldn't even see one satellite on the top floor) and even if it
manages to get close (oh, it's the OTHER tower!) it won't say what
floor.

I once got involved in trying to trace a harassing phone call (as
the recipient). According to phone company records, there were a
pile of phone booths several kilometers high at 1500 Eighth Street,
one of them being the phone in question. Actually these phones
were in dorms spread over a 5 block by 5 block area. Not all of
the dorms actually had street addresses that anyone knew about -
many of them were on private roads. The entire campus had their
phones at one address. This was well before E911, though. I hope
the records are now fixed so if someone needs to locate a phone for
reasons more important than harassing phone calls, the caller won't
die waiting.

>If the fire trucks show up where I was staying a week ago, I will still
>be standing around in my burning house waiting for help.

TELL THEM WHERE YOU ARE! This should also include what floor or
what room so they have some idea where you might be trapped if you
don't get out, even if they have the right street address.

>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
>does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
>need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.

Agreed here.

Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
heart attack, how do I get help for her?

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

In message <118qoia3odqc37@corp.supernews.com> gordon@hammy.burditt.org
(Gordon Burditt) wrote:

>>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
>>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
>>does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
>>need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.
>
>Agreed here.
>
>Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>heart attack, how do I get help for her?

My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
get you though to the right place. Maybe.

However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
an emergency themselves.


--
Microsoft: Putting the PR into proprietary.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

When you dial 911 will your call even go through is the instant question
and this decision is not a panacea. 911 was entirely developed around
traditional Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS). That service was
delivered over a pair of copper wires that went from a telephone Central
Office (CO) to the subscribers premise. It's voice signals were powered
from the CO's batteries which were recharged from motor generators
driven by the local electrical utility or by on sight generation when
utility power was unavailable. Since telephone service developed before
rather than after reliable public electrical power was available in many
communities the COs were all built to be self sufficient and the local
operating companies never changed that practice. None of the new comers
to the industry ever tried to imitate the level of reliability that the
LOCs achieved. Many of the disputes between the new comers and the LOCs
have been about how much access the new comers would have to the LOCs
resources rather than the LOCs subscribers. The LOCs have very good
reasons to fight against the new comers getting space in the exchanges,
access to exchange power, and use of exchange switching equipment at
bargain basement rates. All of the new comers attack the LOCs for
demanding full cost pricing including a profitable return on the LOCs
physical plant investments.

Mean while the rate of telephone service having exceeded 95% of all
households nation wide all of the nations major cities have abandoned
their once substantial investment in emergency communications systems
which allowed citizens to call for help without using the Switched
Telephone Network. The most familiar example of such systems was the
network of street fire alarm boxes that many cities maintained until the
seventies. The signals from those alarms traveled on dedicated wires,
over redundant pathways, with continuous supervision of the circuits
integrity. Such expensive but very reliable emergency reporting systems
only exist as a few remnants in a few places.

As competition puts more and more pressure on investment reliability of
service will go the way of the dodo. We may begin to see architects
designing watchtowers into new fire stations so the watchman can look
for the loom up of the fire within their service areas if the trend
continues.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

 

[Joseph]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:28:13 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>rick++ wrote:
>> InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to
>> implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because
>> there may not be location info.
>>
>
>
>Why wouldn't there be any location info? All anyone needs to do is the
>same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the
>database.

What if the 911 caller is unable or unsure of the address from which
they are reporting? That's what E911 is all about.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Gordon Burditt wrote:

> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>
> Gordon L. Burditt


Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in
this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain
that you have an emergency and need to speak to law enforcement for
medical assistance in your mother's location. They will make every
attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority and will stay on the
line until that happens. Operators have been providing this level of
service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these
circumstances.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

HorneTD wrote:
> When you dial 911 will your call even go through is the instant question
> and this decision is not a panacea. 911 was entirely developed around
> traditional Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS). That service was
> delivered over a pair of copper wires that went from a telephone Central
> Office (CO) to the subscribers premise. It's voice signals were powered
> from the CO's batteries which were recharged from motor generators
> driven by the local electrical utility or by on sight generation when
> utility power was unavailable. Since telephone service developed before
> rather than after reliable public electrical power was available in many
> communities the COs were all built to be self sufficient and the local
> operating companies never changed that practice. None of the new comers
> to the industry ever tried to imitate the level of reliability that the
> LOCs achieved. Many of the disputes between the new comers and the LOCs
> have been about how much access the new comers would have to the LOCs
> resources rather than the LOCs subscribers. The LOCs have very good
> reasons to fight against the new comers getting space in the exchanges,
> access to exchange power, and use of exchange switching equipment at
> bargain basement rates. All of the new comers attack the LOCs for
> demanding full cost pricing including a profitable return on the LOCs
> physical plant investments.

This was precisely the issue when AT&T started providing local exchange
service from inside the local CO. Their equipment was piggy-backed onto
the emergency power system, thereby deriving the same benefits as the
local carrier did. Without equitable pricing, AT&T was getting a cheap
ride on some very expensive investments by the local carrier.

>
> Mean while the rate of telephone service having exceeded 95% of all
> households nation wide all of the nations major cities have abandoned
> their once substantial investment in emergency communications systems
> which allowed citizens to call for help without using the Switched
> Telephone Network. The most familiar example of such systems was the
> network of street fire alarm boxes that many cities maintained until the
> seventies. The signals from those alarms traveled on dedicated wires,
> over redundant pathways, with continuous supervision of the circuits
> integrity. Such expensive but very reliable emergency reporting systems
> only exist as a few remnants in a few places.
>
> As competition puts more and more pressure on investment reliability of
> service will go the way of the dodo. We may begin to see architects
> designing watchtowers into new fire stations so the watchman can look
> for the loom up of the fire within their service areas if the trend
> continues.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

DevilsPGD wrote:

> In message <118qoia3odqc37@corp.supernews.com> gordon@hammy.burditt.org
> (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
>
>
>>>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
>>>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
>>>does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
>>>need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.
>>
>>Agreed here.
>>
>>Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>>had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>>phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>>heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>
>
> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
> get you though to the right place. Maybe.
>
> However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
> an emergency themselves.
>
>

Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing
chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the
guy in the US called for help?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Jer wrote:

> Gordon Burditt wrote:
>
>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>>
>> Gordon L. Burditt
>
>
>
> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in
> this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain
> that you have an emergency and need to speak to law enforcement for
> medical assistance in your mother's location. They will make every
> attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority and will stay on the
> line until that happens. Operators have been providing this level of
> service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these
> circumstances.
>

Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most
VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

In article <iQeje.4769$uR4.699@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, HorneTD <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
> That service was
>delivered over a pair of copper wires that went from a telephone Central
>Office (CO) to the subscribers premise. It's voice signals were powered
>from the CO's batteries which were recharged from motor generators
>driven by the local electrical utility or by on sight generation when
>utility power was unavailable.

Typically, the nominal -48Vdc power for the MTSO/CO is provided by a power
system that converts AC to DC. The batteries are only used in the event of a
power outage. They are connected via busbar so there is no transfer time.
Most critical sites also have one or more backup gen-sets to provide power
beyond the battery capacity.

You also need this in the remote/DLC cabinets and cell sites that may be
serving the end user. If the cell site or DLC dies, the end sub has no
service, regardless of the condition of the upstream MTSO or CO.

 

[Blue]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1115907369.571482.239900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
May 12, 2005
Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
combination of:

1. Current satellite location, or
2. Last satellite location, or
3. Cell tower triangulation location?

 

[Joseph]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:04:29 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>This was precisely the issue when AT&T started providing local exchange
>service from inside the local CO. Their equipment was piggy-backed onto
>the emergency power system, thereby deriving the same benefits as the
>local carrier did. Without equitable pricing, AT&T was getting a cheap
>ride on some very expensive investments by the local carrier.

For 98% of the US AT&T *was* the local carrier. AT&T had a major
investment in pretty much all the Bell companies with the exception of
SNET (Southern New England Telephone) and Cincinnati & Suburban Bell
Telephone. Except for the independents and except for GTE and Contel
Bell owned most of the infrastructure in the US and a partial interest
in Bell Canada in Ontario and Québec.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

In message <L5SdnTNqtIRMRhDfRVn-hw@comcast.com> Rick Merrill
<jaynehm@comcast.net> wrote:

>DevilsPGD wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
>> get you though to the right place. Maybe.
>>
>> However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
>> an emergency themselves.
>>
>>
>
>Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing
>chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the
>guy in the US called for help?

No actually, I don't...


--
Study reveals half the country has below-average intelligence.

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Rick Merrill wrote:
> Jer wrote:
>
>> Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>
>>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>>>
>>> Gordon L. Burditt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer...
>> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers,
>> explain that you have an emergency and need to speak to law
>> enforcement for medical assistance in your mother's location. They
>> will make every attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority
>> and will stay on the line until that happens. Operators have been
>> providing this level of service for many years and are glad to help
>> any way they can under these circumstances.
>>
>
> Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most
> VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.)


Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature?

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Joseph wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:28:13 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>
>
>>rick++ wrote:
>>
>>>InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to
>>>implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because
>>>there may not be location info.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Why wouldn't there be any location info? All anyone needs to do is the
>>same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the
>>database.
>
>
> What if the 911 caller is unable or unsure of the address from which
> they are reporting? That's what E911 is all about.
>

Well, yeah, there's that, and not all callers speak the same language as
the PSAP operator, not all callers are sober, and some callers are just
dumber than a bag of hammers and have no clue where the hell they are
until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location
info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But
there are other deal killers in the loop.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Rick Merrill wrote:
> DevilsPGD wrote:
>
>> In message <118qoia3odqc37@corp.supernews.com> gordon@hammy.burditt.org
>> (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
>>>> got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
>>>> does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
>>>> need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed here.
>>>
>>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>>
>>
>>
>> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
>> get you though to the right place. Maybe.
>>
>> However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
>> an emergency themselves.
>>
>>
>
> Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing
> chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the
> guy in the US called for help?


Yeah, I do, they both knew where the other was because they both
belonged to the same club. A no-brainer.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

Joseph wrote:
> On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:04:29 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>
>
>>This was precisely the issue when AT&T started providing local exchange
>>service from inside the local CO. Their equipment was piggy-backed onto
>>the emergency power system, thereby deriving the same benefits as the
>>local carrier did. Without equitable pricing, AT&T was getting a cheap
>>ride on some very expensive investments by the local carrier.
>
>
> For 98% of the US AT&T *was* the local carrier. AT&T had a major
> investment in pretty much all the Bell companies with the exception of
> SNET (Southern New England Telephone) and Cincinnati & Suburban Bell
> Telephone. Except for the independents and except for GTE and Contel
> Bell owned most of the infrastructure in the US and a partial interest
> in Bell Canada in Ontario and Québec.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>


Well, yeah, back when the RBOCs were owned by Ma Bell - pre-MFJ. But
that was then and this is now. AT&T was not a local carrier anywhere in
Texas, but they sure wanted to squirrel their way under SBC's sheets.
They eventually did in major urban service areas, and SBC wound up
taking several financial hits for the additional load on the power
infrastructure, in-building HVAC operating costs, etc. primarily because
AT&T usage fees were tied directly to their revenue stream. In most
places that wasn't much.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Blue wrote:
> "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
> news:1115907369.571482.239900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> May 12, 2005
> Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
>
> Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
> combination of:
>
> 1. Current satellite location, or
> 2. Last satellite location, or
> 3. Cell tower triangulation location?
>
>


Everything you ever wanted to know about TDOA...

http://www.trueposition.com

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Blue wrote:

> "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
> news:1115907369.571482.239900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> May 12, 2005
> Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
>
> Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
> combination of:
>
> 1. Current satellite location, or
> 2. Last satellite location, or
> 3. Cell tower triangulation location?
>
>

Only in cell phones. It would be a waste to put GPS in an ATA 🙂

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Blue wrote:
> "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
> news:1115907369.571482.239900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> May 12, 2005
> Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
>
> Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a

> combination of:
>
> 1. Current satellite location, or
> 2. Last satellite location, or
> 3. Cell tower triangulation location?

Besides the other technological info given...a little practicle tip in
the meantime. If one should ever be on a roadway and need to give E911
location information verbally, look around for a roadmarker. Many roads
have a small metal post with unique road grid number. Seems like every
1/4 to 1 mile or so.

Believe the primary use is by road maintanence crews. I'm not entirely
sure how quickly an emergency dispatcher could cross reference a road
sign, or what access they have to this kind of database??

I don't think it would take long for a county works department to
access this kind of info, during business hours.

-
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Jer wrote:
> Rick Merrill wrote:
>
>> Jer wrote:
>>
>>> Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>>>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>>>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>>>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>>>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>>>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>>>>
>>>> Gordon L. Burditt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer...
>>> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers,
>>> explain that you have an emergency and need to speak to law
>>> enforcement for medical assistance in your mother's location. They
>>> will make every attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority
>>> and will stay on the line until that happens. Operators have been
>>> providing this level of service for many years and are glad to help
>>> any way they can under these circumstances.
>>>
>>
>> Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most
>> VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.)
>
>
>
> Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature?
>

Nope.

Maybe have people at home on call for when you need to talk? mmmmm...

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

Rick Merrill wrote:
> Jer wrote:
>
>> Rick Merrill wrote:
>>
>>> Jer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
>>>>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
>>>>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>>>>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>>>>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>>>>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gordon L. Burditt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer...
>>>> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers,
>>>> explain that you have an emergency and need to speak to law
>>>> enforcement for medical assistance in your mother's location. They
>>>> will make every attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority
>>>> and will stay on the line until that happens. Operators have been
>>>> providing this level of service for many years and are glad to help
>>>> any way they can under these circumstances.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and
>>> most VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower
>>> costs.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature?
>>
>
> Nope.
>
> Maybe have people at home on call for when you need to talk? mmmmm...


Dayem! I smell another business opportunity. Woo Woo!

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Jer]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,comp.dcom.telecom.tech (More info?)

David L wrote:
>
> Blue wrote:
>
>>"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
>>news:1115907369.571482.239900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>May 12, 2005
>>Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
>>
>>Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
>
>
>>combination of:
>>
>>1. Current satellite location, or
>>2. Last satellite location, or
>>3. Cell tower triangulation location?
>
>
> Besides the other technological info given...a little practicle tip in
> the meantime. If one should ever be on a roadway and need to give E911
> location information verbally, look around for a roadmarker. Many roads
> have a small metal post with unique road grid number. Seems like every
> 1/4 to 1 mile or so.
>
> Believe the primary use is by road maintanence crews. I'm not entirely
> sure how quickly an emergency dispatcher could cross reference a road
> sign, or what access they have to this kind of database??
>
> I don't think it would take long for a county works department to
> access this kind of info, during business hours.
>
> -
> David
>


Here are a few tip references for the geographically-challenged, and
they would be well served to become familiar with how things are done,
especially if one is too embarrassed to stop and ask for directions.

To get started, there are two different methods currently deployed to
number interstate highway exits - mailpost marker system (most states)
and sequential numbering system (the few remaining states).

Some will just have to trust me on this, but take it from the Roadtrip
King, knowing this info has saved somebody's bacon many times, sometimes
even mine.

http://tinyurl.com/c4b85


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.cingular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip,misc.emerg-services (More info?)

Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>I'm also now wondering who's going to take the hit for hotels when a
>tenant plugs their internet phone into the wall jack. The hi-speed
>internet service at some hotels requires the tenant to occasionally
>re-certify their in-room internet service via an auth code provided by
>the front desk when necessary. And it's not always free.

So what? The technical issues of mapping a hotel connection to the hotel
and room number are trivial compared to, say, determining a cell phone's
location. Internet cafes, libraries, and all sorts of public access points
will have the same issue. I guess they'll either have to figure it out or
quit providing VoIP to those locations.

VoIP providers got into the business of providing public telephone service,
but they didn't bother providing the whole package and you see the results.
It's easy to undercut the other guys when you're allowed to skip the hard
parts. Well, now they can't, and it's about time. All the FCC is saying is
they have to quit being half-baked telephone companies and become real ones.