Where to invest in my current system

[hatebreeder]

So originally i had a thread to review parts i had selected for a new upgrade however on multiple sites i am being told i am wasting my money. So i started this to list my entire system and get input on if there are any places i could get some performance increase or invest money that would be worth it. I primarily play FPS games and do some photoshop. Please, any input is appreciated. I was so ready to hit the button my last cart however it appears i would have blown a bunch of money for nothing. HEEEELLLPP!!!!

CPU: Intel Core i7-940 Bloomfield 2.93GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601940

Mobo: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

Ram: 2 x CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
12GB total

GPU: 2 x GIGABYTE GV-R697OC-2GD Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 in crossfire

PSU: Corsair 1k watt modular

Boot/Primary games drive: Corsair Force Series GT CSSD-F120GBGT-BK 2.5" 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Storage: 2 WD Velociraptor 150gb in raid 0

Case: Antec 1200 V3

Keyboard: razer black widow mechanical

Mouse: Logitech G9

Monitor: just ordered asus 120hz 27"

Headset: Plantronics dsp 500

 

[nix327]

and here is a comparison of i7 940 and i5 3570k which would be more ideal for gaming
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/46?vs=701

 

[hatebreeder]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm really really glad i posted this thread. I'm gonna hold off and see what the new gen cpu's are like in 2013. In the meantime, last question re: ssd's.


i currently have :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233191

if i was to get a 2nd and put in raid 0 would that be faster than getting one bigger ssd or not? I am looking at either getting a 2nd ssd or getting just another 250gb one.

 

[Praxeology]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm really really glad i posted this thread. I'm gonna hold off and see what the new gen cpu's are like in 2013. In the meantime, last question re: ssd's.


i currently have :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233191

if i was to get a 2nd and put in raid 0 would that be faster than getting one bigger ssd or not? I am looking at either getting a 2nd ssd or getting just another 250gb one.

Great first buy picking the Corsair SSD line. You probably love it. Back when that was the best SSD on the market, pre samsung 840 basically, all of these SSD did not have trim support in raid. I know their force 3 series does, and the new vertex/samsung 840 does. So raiding them is a no go really though it would be substantially faster. In reality though, what more do you need? You probably boot windows in 10-20s. It takes you longer to type your password in when your hands are all cold from the winter lol. There might be a firmware update that now supports raid and trimm on these older drives since the new ones, but verify it. My ranked game in league just started, so as to your question specifically,

Yes it is faster then buying a newer one, much faster. Make sure you a raid card or a motherboard capable of raid 0. It is faster but will poop out on you if one dies. Meaning you lose data and must reformat back on to one. And if you already have data on that, I think you'd have to reformat either way to set up raid.

Getting a new one would be the samsung 840 pro, and that runs @ 269.99 for the 256GB. I'd wait personally unless you can verify the raid 0 on the older drives got firmware updates that support trim in raid like the new ones do. GL!

 

[hatebreeder]

Great first buy picking the Corsair SSD line. You probably love it. Back when that was the best SSD on the market, pre samsung 840 basically, all of these SSD did not have trim support in raid. I know their force 3 series does, and the new vertex/samsung 840 does. So raiding them is a no go really though it would be substantially faster. In reality though, what more do you need? You probably boot windows in 10-20s. It takes you longer to type your password in when your hands are all cold from the winter lol. There might be a firmware update that now supports raid and trimm on these older drives since the new ones, but verify it. My ranked game in league just started, so as to your question specifically,

Yes it is faster then buying a newer one, much faster. Make sure you a raid card or a motherboard capable of raid 0. It is faster but will poop out on you if one dies. Meaning you lose data and must reformat back on to one. And if you already have data on that, I think you'd have to reformat either way to set up raid.

Getting a new one would be the samsung 840 pro, and that runs @ 269.99 for the 256GB. I'd wait personally unless you can verify the raid 0 on the older drives got firmware updates that support trim in raid like the new ones do. GL!

most of that went over my head.

 

[Praxeology]

most of that went over my head.

Over time your SSD gets worn down through constant deleting, and writing of files. Like installing software, and then uninstalling software. SSD store data in blocks of memory, tons and tons of blocks of memory. These blocks, when filled up, need to be erased to write new stuff in them. This constant erasing/writing eventually kills the block. Kill enough blocks and boom, paperweight. Or some kind of magic like that. TRIM is a command for SSD that windows 7 has built into that manages what blocks are getting data written in them, and whats blocks aren't. Essentially instead of going to block a (which has data on it, erasing it, and then writing some new stuff) trim command says forget a, it would be more efficient to just write this new data you requested over in block h, which has no data on it. It guides the writing/deleting cycle on the SSD memory blocks to last the longest. Write into unused blocks, before deleting. This helps with SSD lifespan. When you raided SSD in the past, trim wouldn't work. That has been fixed, and I just looked at the newegg link and it says supports raid so you should be good to go. My only question is did it always support raid or is it from a firmware update. Meaning the one you have right now, might not support raid without a firmware update. The new one you might buy will, but yours might not without a firmware update. Its like flashing a bios. A new processor comes out you want to upgrade to. Your ASUS motherboard supports it with a bio update to version 2281. But your bio version is 2280. If your friend was buying your exact motherboard he wouldn't need to update, because ASUS updated their product to bio 2281 for all new buyers of the motherboard you have. Your board will require you to manual update before you can get that new processor installed. Does that make sense?

 

[hatebreeder]

Over time your SSD gets worn down through constant deleting, and writing of files. Like installing software, and then uninstalling software. SSD store data in blocks of memory, tons and tons of blocks of memory. These blocks, when filled up, need to be erased to write new stuff in them. This constant erasing/writing eventually kills the block. Kill enough blocks and boom, paperweight. Or some kind of magic like that. TRIM is a command for SSD that windows 7 has built into that manages what blocks are getting data written in them, and whats blocks aren't. Essentially instead of going to block a (which has data on it, erasing it, and then writing some new stuff) trim command says forget a, it would be more efficient to just write this new data you requested over in block h, which has no data on it. It guides the writing/deleting cycle on the SSD memory blocks to last the longest. Write into unused blocks, before deleting. This helps with SSD lifespan. When you raided SSD in the past, trim wouldn't work. That has been fixed, and I just looked at the newegg link and it says supports raid so you should be good to go. My only question is did it always support raid or is it from a firmware update. Meaning the one you have right now, might not support raid without a firmware update. The new one you might buy will, but yours might not without a firmware update. Its like flashing a bios. A new processor comes out you want to upgrade to. Your ASUS motherboard supports it with a bio update to version 2281. But your bio version is 2280. If your friend was buying your exact motherboard he wouldn't need to update, because ASUS updated their product to bio 2281 for all new buyers of the motherboard you have. Your board will require you to manual update before you can get that new processor installed. Does that make sense?

i totally get how SSDs work and how trim works to an extent.

Let me make sure i get the rest of it:
The only way to raid two SSD's and have it be beneficial is if both drives support the trim command. However my MOBO would need to support trim as well.
I get that the new SSD is trim enabled out of the box and my old one may be however it may need a firmware update first to support trim.
My mobo needs a firmware update to support trim.


Lets say i can get all that done. How does trim work? is it just a setting i check in drive management or something like that or is it something i have to do periodically similar to defragging?

 

[Praxeology]

i totally get how SSDs work and how trim works to an extent.

Let me make sure i get the rest of it:
The only way to raid two SSD's and have it be beneficial is if both drives support the trim command. However my MOBO would need to support trim as well.
I get that the new SSD is trim enabled out of the box and my old one may be however it may need a firmware update first to support trim.
My mobo needs a firmware update to support trim.


Lets say i can get all that done. How does trim work? is it just a setting i check in drive management or something like that or is it something i have to do periodically similar to defragging?

The only way to raid two SSD and have trim support on both of them* is if trim is supported in RAID. That new one is, I am unsure if your older one does because the support for trim in raid is fairly recent as in like 2 months recent. Your motherboard on the other hand has nothing to do with trim, as its more software/firmware related to the hardware in question IE SSD. So,

you get that new SSD and trim is enabled out of the box as windows enables it. Your old one right now has trim working just fine. The question is, when you combine the new one, which supports trim in raid, to the old one which might not support it in raid, will you have trim working on both drives. Worst case scenario, your older drive does not support trim in raid configuration, and needs a firmware update. Best case scenario it does. Your motherboard has nothing to do with it though, outside of the fact that you can not raid any HDD or SSD without a raid controller through PCI slots, or through integrated raid controllers. So step 1, link me your mobo or just link it yourself, and check for raid 1-10 in spec sheet. Step 2, figure out what firmware version you have help here and step 3 is to get in contact with corsair support / forums / google to ask this question: I have an older Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD and I am looking to purchase a second one. The newer one comes with raid support and I am not sure the original Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD I bought did. Did it always support raid or did that feature come later through a firmware update... ETC that should get the ball rolling in a forum/support ticket with people hopefully more knowledgeable than myself. Get your questions answered and you are good to go. Keep in mind that most people don't care about these things. They were raiding long before raid support and don't really care lol so you might have trouble getting the question answered. I personally am using 1 240GB SSD because at the time there was no trim support + raid 0 has possibility of data loss if 1 drive fails. Since I don't do backups, I just settled for one. And going back to your first question is it faster to get a bigger one or a raid 0 120gb + 120 gb, it is much faster in raid. Essentially double on specs, and pretty much double in real world. I read some reviews of the GT newegg link you sent and people who bought two report Avg Read is 935mbs. and Write is 950mbs, essentially double. Anyway, GL with all that and let me know if you can find an answer through google/support/what ever.

-Prax

 

[hatebreeder]

The only way to raid two SSD and have trim support on both of them* is if trim is supported in RAID. That new one is, I am unsure if your older one does because the support for trim in raid is fairly recent as in like 2 months recent. Your motherboard on the other hand has nothing to do with trim, as its more software/firmware related to the hardware in question IE SSD. So,

you get that new SSD and trim is enabled out of the box as windows enables it. Your old one right now has trim working just fine. The question is, when you combine the new one, which supports trim in raid, to the old one which might not support it in raid, will you have trim working on both drives. Worst case scenario, your older drive does not support trim in raid configuration, and needs a firmware update. Best case scenario it does. Your motherboard has nothing to do with it though, outside of the fact that you can not raid any HDD or SSD without a raid controller through PCI slots, or through integrated raid controllers. So step 1, link me your mobo or just link it yourself, and check for raid 1-10 in spec sheet. Step 2, figure out what firmware version you have help here and step 3 is to get in contact with corsair support / forums / google to ask this question: I have an older Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD and I am looking to purchase a second one. The newer one comes with raid support and I am not sure the original Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD I bought did. Did it always support raid or did that feature come later through a firmware update... ETC that should get the ball rolling in a forum/support ticket with people hopefully more knowledgeable than myself. Get your questions answered and you are good to go. Keep in mind that most people don't care about these things. They were raiding long before raid support and don't really care lol so you might have trouble getting the question answered. I personally am using 1 240GB SSD because at the time there was no trim support + raid 0 has possibility of data loss if 1 drive fails. Since I don't do backups, I just settled for one. And going back to your first question is it faster to get a bigger one or a raid 0 120gb + 120 gb, it is much faster in raid. Essentially double on specs, and pretty much double in real world. I read some reviews of the GT newegg link you sent and people who bought two report Avg Read is 935mbs. and Write is 950mbs, essentially double. Anyway, GL with all that and let me know if you can find an answer through google/support/what ever.


The older one was purchased in December 2011 so I'm sure its gonna need the firmware update if there is one available for it.

Here is my mobo and what i found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365
(SATA RAID 0/1/5/10)

As far as my current sdd and firmware version. i went to that page whoever its in german or something. I have started a new thread in the corsair forums, will report back asap. thanks again!

 

[Praxeology]

The only way to raid two SSD and have trim support on both of them* is if trim is supported in RAID. That new one is, I am unsure if your older one does because the support for trim in raid is fairly recent as in like 2 months recent. Your motherboard on the other hand has nothing to do with trim, as its more software/firmware related to the hardware in question IE SSD. So,

you get that new SSD and trim is enabled out of the box as windows enables it. Your old one right now has trim working just fine. The question is, when you combine the new one, which supports trim in raid, to the old one which might not support it in raid, will you have trim working on both drives. Worst case scenario, your older drive does not support trim in raid configuration, and needs a firmware update. Best case scenario it does. Your motherboard has nothing to do with it though, outside of the fact that you can not raid any HDD or SSD without a raid controller through PCI slots, or through integrated raid controllers. So step 1, link me your mobo or just link it yourself, and check for raid 1-10 in spec sheet. Step 2, figure out what firmware version you have help here and step 3 is to get in contact with corsair support / forums / google to ask this question: I have an older Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD and I am looking to purchase a second one. The newer one comes with raid support and I am not sure the original Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD I bought did. Did it always support raid or did that feature come later through a firmware update... ETC that should get the ball rolling in a forum/support ticket with people hopefully more knowledgeable than myself. Get your questions answered and you are good to go. Keep in mind that most people don't care about these things. They were raiding long before raid support and don't really care lol so you might have trouble getting the question answered. I personally am using 1 240GB SSD because at the time there was no trim support + raid 0 has possibility of data loss if 1 drive fails. Since I don't do backups, I just settled for one. And going back to your first question is it faster to get a bigger one or a raid 0 120gb + 120 gb, it is much faster in raid. Essentially double on specs, and pretty much double in real world. I read some reviews of the GT newegg link you sent and people who bought two report Avg Read is 935mbs. and Write is 950mbs, essentially double. Anyway, GL with all that and let me know if you can find an answer through google/support/what ever.


The older one was purchased in December 2011 so I'm sure its gonna need the firmware update if there is one available for it.

Here is my mobo and what i found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365
(SATA RAID 0/1/5/10)

As far as my current sdd and firmware version. i went to that page whoever its in german or something. I have started a new thread in the corsair forums, will report back asap. thanks again!

Alright, you had my hardware brain dripping for information so I started googling it in the middle of my next generation episode (Almost done with the series finally,) and it turns out that I was wrong. Raid 0 Trim is supported ONLY with the intel series 7 motherboard chipsets! Meaning your mobo is running the x58 series = intel series 5 chipset. You would need a z77/h77 etc, something in the 7s in order to do this. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSo if you do raid 0 these things trim support won't be possible. Here is a good discussion on it to clear you up on the question, raid or don't raid without trim. http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162502 Boy its hard to find specific answers on this topic, no one knows ***.

Edit* http://www.tomshardware.com/news/TRIM-RST-RAID-0-SSD-7-series,16898.html Finally something! Just got to get the right words. That comes up with "intel series 7 raid 0 trim support. Should be a good read, as are all the other tabs I got open lol. But finding out that series 7 was the pickle.

Edit 2* The interwebs are fast at work and have trim raid up on some 6k series chipsets @ http://www.anandtech.com/show/6477/trim-raid0-ssd-arrays-work-with-intel-6series-motherboards-too

Edit 3* http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294743-32-trim-raid-chipset Third post has an interesting idea for none trim support. Leave your comp on once a week overnight and let garbage cleaner do the work while you are sleeping to make up for the lack of trim. Not sure how well that would actually work but an interesting thought.

Final Thoughts: I really don't have anything else to add, I just finishing reading all my tabs and everything I got above pretty much explains it. Z68/P67 can support raid + trim with a little tweaking through the anandtech guide. The Intel 7 series chipsets combined with Intel's software RST: Rapid Storage Technology Versions 11.0+ allow you to take any SSD, raid them together, and still run trim. Apparently the issue was the Chipset not being able to properly communicate with the SSD regarding the trim command from windows. Through some Intel computer magic, if you have a board that can support it, download the software, and you should be up and running with trim support as I understand it. I truly believe this is /thread, I have beaten it to a dead horse.

Back to the next gen episode, hope you learned something, I know I did,

-Praxeology!

 

[hatebreeder]

here is what i got for answers:

1.) how do i find out if my old one is trim enabled.

2.) if it's not, do i just update to the newest firmware version and it will be?


Answers:
1. All Force drives support TRIM.

2. Update the firmware BEFORE it's in RAID.

 

[Praxeology]

here is what i got for answers:

1.) how do i find out if my old one is trim enabled.

2.) if it's not, do i just update to the newest firmware version and it will be?


Answers:
1. All Force drives support TRIM.

2. Update the firmware BEFORE it's in RAID.

There is a CMD command you can run in windows to check for sure, but rest assured its running. Windows 7 detects SSD and turns it on. Don't defrag and turn off windows indexing features and you're good to go. Read that above post and it should explain the problem.

TL;DR version, you do not have access to trim in raid without having a newer motherboard with an z77 chipset. Without it, your raid config will have to rely on garbage collector and will probably be fine without trim anyway. Here is a source to be 100percent sure if you'd like, though read the last post http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprohardware/thread/d06e1cb5-d518-447e-b3d6-db2d580899cb

 

[hatebreeder]

Makes sense for the most part. sorry i didn't see you replied before my last post. I may just buy a bigger ssd and run just that and give my girl this ssd when i upgrade my mobo,chip,ram in the future. I appreciate your help a lot man.

 

[Praxeology]

Makes sense for the most part. sorry i didn't see you replied before my last post. I may just buy a bigger ssd and run just that and give my girl this ssd when i upgrade my mobo,chip,ram in the future. I appreciate your help a lot man.

NP, that sounds like the best plan. You got maybe another 6 month wait before we can set you up a has build on 1150, and then you can get raid 0 working properly with trim, assuming it works for the new 1150/ new chipset that will come with it. Always with the changes lol.