Question Which of these X470 boards are the best?

Need a motherboard for gaming.
Here are my options:
https://i.postimg.cc/7ZpJ2x9G/hmm.png

(I don't need RGB. Don't need Wifi. Don't need SLi.)

Need reliability, good VRMs, "future-proof" and easy use (No messing with BIOS and easy overclocking for future is a bonus).
Are you planning a Ryzen 3000 CPU? Then you don't really need a 12 or 16 core CPU either. Actually even an 8 core would be kind of overkill if gaming only is your use case... so why do you need an X470?

Many B450 boards will do a terrific job with 8 cores (some even 12). That leaves you with more budget to throw at the video card which will matter way more than the number of cores.
 
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hellzer

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You don't really need a 12 or 16 core CPU either... actually even an 8 core would be kind of overkill.

Why do you need an X470? Many B450 boards would do a terrific job with 8 core (some even 12) and leave you with more budget to throw at the video card.
I already have GTX 1080. And I am keeping that. I just want a motherboard that will serve me long years. Right now I have to change the motherboard and thats basically changing everything since I am getting AM4 board. But I would prefer to have a strong backbone in motherboard that will serve me well in case I decide to play with overclocking, performance and what not.

Also I was thinking of getting the 3700x with a stock cooler with an option for future overclocking with a custom cooler. And that's where good motherboard would matter?

Because if I decide in the future to use some newly released AMD CPU, the B450 motherboard might be a drag while x470 would be much safer choice, no?
Plus there is a chance B450 might not be compatible with new Ryzen 3000 series without requiring a BIOS update first. And I wouldn't be able to do that without having an older CPU. That is a risk I am not willing to take. Tell me if I am wrong.
 
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I already have GTX 1080. And I am keeping that. I just want a motherboard that will serve me long years. Right now I have to change the motherboard and thats basically changing everything since I am getting AM4 board. But I would prefer to have a strong backbone in motherboard that will serve me well in case I decide to play with overclocking, performance and what not.

Also I was thinking of getting the 3700x with a stock cooler with an option for future overclocking with a custom cooler. And that's where good motherboard would matter?
3700x sounds like a great choice... it would fit nicely on an Asus B450 Tuf PRO Gaming (not PLUS, avoid that one). Also, you being in the EU if that price list an indicator, look for the MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX (be sure it's the MAX). Both have decent VRM designs and large heatsinks for overclocking. They may help save some coin... maybe for a nice 240mm AIO or Noctua cooler.

You'll find the same issue of needing to make sure BIOS' is updated with any 400 series chipset board, but MSI's MAX line are all designed specifically for Ry3K so they already are. But even so, you'll almost certainly have to update from the shipping BIOS anyway.

Also, note that overclocking on Ry3K isn't what you might think it is: gains are minimal and usually not worth it. But there are ways to eek out a little more.
 
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stefanos50

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I already have GTX 1080. And I am keeping that. I just want a motherboard that will serve me long years. Right now I have to change the motherboard and thats basically changing everything since I am getting AM4 board. But I would prefer to have a strong backbone in motherboard that will serve me well in case I decide to play with overclocking, performance and what not.

Also I was thinking of getting the 3700x with a stock cooler with an option for future overclocking with a custom cooler. And that's where good motherboard would matter?

Because if I decide in the future to use some newly released AMD CPU, the B450 motherboard might be a drag while x470 would be much safer choice, no?
Plus there is a chance B450 might not be compatible with new Ryzen 3000 series without requiring a BIOS update first. And I wouldn't be able to do that without having an older CPU. That is a risk I am not willing to take. Tell me if I am wrong.
All the MSI motherboards that end with "MAX" are out of the box compatible with 3rd gen ryzen. From the motherboards you listed only the last two MSI Max models dont require a bios update all the others will do. Also 2020 will be the end of the AM4 platform anyway and no one knows if the new gen that AMD will release in 2020 will be supported from AM4. A B450 Tomahawk Max or Gaming Plus Max have good VRM's to run a 3900X or 3700X overclocked and you will save a lot.
 
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hellzer

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3700x sounds like a great choice... it would fit nicely on an Asus B450 Tuf PRO Gaming (not PLUS, avoid that one). Also, you being in the EU if that price list an indicator, look for the MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX (be sure it's the MAX). Both have decent VRM designs and large heatsinks for overclocking. They may help save some coin... maybe for a nice 240mm AIO or Noctua cooler.
I edited my last post sharing some concerns.
Let me know what do you think about that and also me getting X570 Aorus Elite?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/edit#gid=611478281
That would guarantee I don't need to do anything with the BIOS, right?

It looks as it has all bases covered there on the docsheet. Also would be a good fit in several years for even a better cpu? While 450's will be considered aged at that point.

EDIT:
Or better yet get x570 Aorus Elite board, put 3600 in there with a market cooler (since 3700x isnt any better for gaming than 3600) and wait for a CPU that would actually make quite a difference to 3600.

?
 
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I edited my last post sharing some concerns.
Let me know what do you think about that and also me getting X570 Aorus Elite?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/edit#gid=611478281
That would guarantee I don't need to do anything with the BIOS, right?

It looks as it has all bases covered there on the docsheet. Also would be a good fit in several years for even a better cpu? While 450's will be considered aged at that point.

EDIT:
Or better yet get board, put 3600 in there with a market cooler (since 3700x isnt any better for gaming than 3600) and wait for a CPU that would actually make quite a difference to 3600.

?
I edited my last too :) where I noted that any 400 series chipset board you need to make sure BIOS is an Ry3k compatible, but any MSI MAX series board is designed specifically for that so they all do. But ANY board will need it's shipping BIOS updated, even MAX, even X570 boards, to get the latest AGESA uCode updates included!

I think that x570 Aorus Elite will be extreme overkill for a 3600 LOL ! As stefanos50 noted: we can't be certain what level of support future Zen processors will enjoy on current AM4 platform. Nor for that matter what exactly future CPU's will give us and how it will help gaming.

But one thing that X570 will provide is PCIe gen 4 to peripherals....if they ever think of some way to leverage it to actually be beneficial to average users LOL
 

hellzer

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I edited my last too :) where I noted that any 400 series chipset board you need to make sure BIOS is an Ry3k compatible, but any MSI MAX series board is designed specifically for that so they all do. But ANY board will need it's shipping BIOS updated, even MAX, even X570 boards, to get the latest AGESA uCode updates included!

I think that x570 Aorus Elite will be extreme overkill for a 3600 LOL ! As stefanos50 noted: we can't be certain what level of support future Zen processors will enjoy on current AM4 platform. Nor for that matter what exactly future CPU's will give us and how it will help gaming.

But one thing that X570 will provide is PCIe gen 4 to peripherals....if they ever think of some way to leverage it to actually be beneficial to average users LOL
This is a headache lol. Anyways I also have to worry about coolers fitting in AM4 boards. Can you help me out with that? Apparently getting a cooler fit on AM4 is a lottery. Not sure I can expand on this thought. I been told the coolers I linked for recommendations that say support AM4 did not fit. Noctua's apparantly need AM4-SE or smth. Mugen 5 told to not fit without board having a backplate...
I no longer know which can fit or not.
Is it possible to save myself from all that?
 

stefanos50

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This is a headache lol. Anyways I also have to worry about coolers fitting in AM4 boards. Can you help me out with that? Apparently getting a cooler fit on AM4 is a lottery. Not sure I can expand on this thought. I been told the coolers I linked for recommendations that say support AM4 did not fit. Noctua's apparantly need AM4-SE or smth. Mugen 5 told to not fit without board having a backplate...
I no longer know which can fit or not.
Is it possible to save myself from all that?
I really dont get whats the problem with CPU coolers and AM4. So far i used about 6 cpu coolers with AM4 and had none problem with all of them. Also to note only the one had its own backplate all the others required the stock backplate or even the stock am4 brackets. Noctua SE-AM4 should be the best option not about fitting but noise/cooling performance. Every cooler that have in its specifications the AM4 then it SHOULD fit and work.
 
This is a headache lol. Anyways I also have to worry about coolers fitting in AM4 boards. Can you help me out with that? Apparently getting a cooler fit on AM4 is a lottery. Not sure I can expand on this thought. I been told the coolers I linked for recommendations that say support AM4 did not fit. Noctua's apparantly need AM4-SE or smth. Mugen 5 told to not fit without board having a backplate...
I no longer know which can fit or not.
Is it possible to save myself from all that?
My understanding is Noctua has AM4 kits for all their coolers. Not sure if it's free or cost of shipping or what https://noctua.at/en/nm-am4-mounting-kit

I'm not sure about Scythe coolers at all.

MOST AM4 cooler mounts use the AM4 backplate that comes with every motherboard because it's needed to mount the stock coolers. You may have to remove the 'clip' brackets to expose the mounting studs though.

To save yourself from the worry (at first).... don't overclock. Just use the CPU at full on stock settings while focusing on optimizing memory speed and timing. You'll get very good benefit from that as attaining a high IF speed helps the CPU over-all. And by not overclocking your CPU you can get by well enough with the stock cooler, they're all quite capable for the CPU they accompany so long as you don't overclock.
 
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hellzer

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My understanding is Noctua has AM4 kits for all their coolers. Not sure if it's free or cost of shipping or what https://noctua.at/en/nm-am4-mounting-kit

I'm not sure about Scythe coolers at all.

MOST AM4 cooler mounts use the AM4 backplate that comes with every motherboard because it's needed to mount the stock coolers. You may have to remove the 'clip' brackets to expose the mounting studs though.
https://pokde.net/system/pc/motherboard/gigabyte-x570-aorus-elite-preview-best-amd-x570-board-for-its-price/

x570 doesn't have a backplate? The picture is there. Apparently it doesn't have one, not sure if that's unusual?
"Over on the back of the GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Elite we see a mostly bare PCB. We have seen high end boards without backplates, so this is perfectly fine. "
 
https://pokde.net/system/pc/motherboard/gigabyte-x570-aorus-elite-preview-best-amd-x570-board-for-its-price/

x570 doesn't have a backplate? The picture is there. Apparently it doesn't have one, not sure if that's unusual?
"Over on the back of the GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Elite we see a mostly bare PCB. We have seen high end boards without backplates, so this is perfectly fine. "
I don't know who he is or what prompts those comments... but the front view of that board clearly shows the two AM4 plastic mounting clips which depends on the backplate to screw into. And AMD, to my knowledge, REQUIRES as part of licensing to ship a back plate compatible with the stock coolers.

You might be getting a bunch of FUD.
 

hellzer

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I really dont get whats the problem with CPU coolers and AM4. So far i used about 6 cpu coolers with AM4 and had none problem with all of them. Also to note only the one had its own backplate all the others required the stock backplate or even the stock am4 brackets. Noctua SE-AM4 should be the best option not about fitting but noise/cooling performance. Every cooler that have in its specifications the AM4 then it SHOULD fit and work.
The cooler you linked me doesn't fit in x570.
https://www.bequiet.com/en/motherboardcheck

Dark Rock Pro 4 - fits.
Dark Rock Pro 4 TR - doesn't.

That's what im talking about. Slippery slope.
 

dorsai

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If you want a solid AM4 board for today and tomorrow I'd hit youtube and check out hardwareunboxed videos on motherboard vrms...they test the boards and do actual thermal testing on the vrms...there are wildly different results and some boards you'd expect to do well are terrible while others are rock solid and can easily handle 12 cores.
 

DMAN999

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The fourth picture down on that review shows the CPU backplate on that MB:
View: https://imgur.com/nvy3LPw

The reviewer was talking about a backplate that would cover the entire MB, which I have Never had on any MB I have ever owned and I have been building PCs since the late 1980's.
 

hellzer

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The fourth picture down on that review shows the CPU backplate on that MB:
View: https://imgur.com/nvy3LPw

The reviewer was talking about a backplate that would cover the entire MB, which I have Never had on any MB I have ever owned and I have been building PCs since the late 1980's.
Ok, my bad. Thanks for clarifying that.
 

hellzer

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A lot of reviews can confuse you when they assume you have familarity with the hardware.
I was thinking of going with ASUS moba instead of Gigabyte. The QVL memory list for latter shows such low native speeds while ASUS has plenty of 3000 Mhz and above. A lot of matches from my local shop.
Apparently RAMs for Gigabyte motherboards need to be overclocked to reach their shown speeds. Do you happen to know anything about that?

You can check out yourself what I am talking about:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10/support#support-doc

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/TUF_GAMING_X570-PLUS/Memory_QVL_3rd_Gen_AMD_Ryzen_Processors_X570_0722.pdf

Current motherboards I am looking at right now:
https://www.1a.lt/p/asus-tuf-gaming-x570-plus/5rka?mtd=search&pos=regular&src=searchnode
and
https://www.1a.lt/p/gigabyte-x570-aorus-elite/5rjx?mtd=search&pos=regular&src=searchnode

I would prefer the Gigabyte but I can't find correct RAMS... :/
"Support for DDR4 3200(O.C.) / 2933 / 2667 / 2400 / 2133 MHz memory modules "
Correction (looked at the wrong generation CPU's lol):
"3rd Generation AMD Ryzen™ processors:
Support for DDR4 4000(O.C.) / 3866(O.C.) / 3800(O.C.) / 3733(O.C.) / 3600(O.C.) / 3466(O.C.) / 3400(O.C.) / 3333(O.C.) / 3300(O.C.) / 3200 / 2933 / 2667 / 2400 / 2133 MHz memory modules"


So picking any DDR4 with 3200 MHz should be fine? Even if it's not in the QVL list?

https://www.1a.lt/p/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16gb-3200mhz-ddr4-cl16-kit-of-2-cmk16gx4m2b3200c16r/2du?mtd=search&pos=regular&src=searchnode

Something like this would work fine? Could you check?
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10/support#support-doc


p.s. your feedback and help is very much appreciated. just so you know.
 
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DMAN999

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G.Skill has plenty of 3600 Mhz Ram kits listed as compatible with that Asus TUF X570-Plus MB:
https://www.gskill.com/configurator?page=2&cls=1529635169&adSearch2=Capacity§16GB (8GBx2),Tested_Speed§3600MHz,&manufacturer=1524725352&chipset=1562579476&model=1562637168

And it has good VRMs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

And it reviewed fairly well here (same MB but with Wifi):
The Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus Wi-Fi ($200) passed all of our tests with flying colors both at stock and when overclocked with PBO and manually. The feature set versus the similarly priced Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite has it as the preferred board between the two, even more so if you’re in need of integrated Wi-Fi and a USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C port on the back.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-tuf_gaming-x570_plus-wifi-motherboard,6273.html
 
...
Apparently RAMs for Gigabyte motherboards need to be overclocked to reach their shown speeds. Do you happen to know anything about that?
.....
Anything over DDR4's specifiied maximum memory speed is considered 'overclocking' even if it's rated at that speed by the DIMM MFR. That could be what that refers to.

The maximum DDR4 specified RAM speed is something like 2400Mtps and I think many mobo's will boot up with that as the default for any DIMM rated over 2400 (mine does). You'll have to enable XMP (DOCP on some boards) so the BIOS will load the SPD timings and enable the default rated speeds.

As far as picking memory on a QVL list.... QVL's are really almost useless, IMO. Firstly because mobo mfr don't keep them up to date for every AGESA version and also because DIMM mfr's change their product on their own schedules. It's very sketch, but I really believe going on reputation and recommendations is your best bet. One good thing: Ry3K's IMC is extremely robust and people are having excellent success getting rated memory speed.
 
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hellzer

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Both boards have good VRMs. And ASUS has plenty of RAMS available... I know.
However I chose (at least for now) to go with Gigabyte. And I did find RAMS (I will post my current setup of parts I chose so far down below) for the board, so that's good. I also need lower profile RAM just to spare myself potential troubles with big cooler. So I don't know about G.Skill. Not sure if I would even find any of them on QVL of Gigabyte.

Ok so few points on that from me why I am leaning towards Gigabyte Elite motherboard itself over ASUS TUF.
So Gigabyte AORUS Elite:
  1. Gigabyte is way faster on updating their BIOS, read on forums that ASUS is a bit slow on that.
  2. Gigabyte has 6 * 2 VRM phases and 1 power stage as opposed to ASUS 4 phases and 3 power stages. I read that more phases are better but that its possible to make ASUS compete with what they have if you are willing (or smth like that, again, I am roughly quoting here).
  3. Has BIOS flash.
That's pretty much it.

Now for the parts I've picked so far (would appreciate if someone could double check here if everything is okay):
https://i.postimg.cc/zvkSRqJY/setup-atm.png

GPU (GTX 1080), PSU (RM 650x) and SSD I already have.

p.s. I know the motherboard is an overkill for CPU but I am keeping it for future needs. Right now all 3000 ryzens seem to be performing similarly so I went with the cheapest one and I am keeping myself open for future upgrades without any hassle. Also it would be a shame to throw away stock cooler of 3700x and I would need an aftermarket one sooner or later anyways. So I will just get it now.
 
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hellzer

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Anything over DDR4's specifiied maximum memory speed is considered 'overclocking' even if it's rated at that speed by the DIMM MFR. That could be what that refers to.

The maximum DDR4 specified RAM speed is something like 2400Mtps and I think many mobo's will boot up with that as the default for any DIMM rated over 2400 (mine does). You'll have to enable XMP (DOCP on some boards) so the BIOS will load the SPD timings and enable the default rated speeds.

As far as picking memory on a QVL list.... QVL's are really almost useless, IMO. Firstly because mobo mfr don't keep them up to date for every AGESA version and also because DIMM mfr's change their product on their own schedules. It's very sketch, but I really believe going on reputation and recommendations is your best bet. One good thing: Ry3K's IMC is extremely robust and people are having excellent success getting rated memory speed.
I think I found everything without needing to OC any RAMS or mess with extra brackets or what not. The cooler also fits. If you want you can check and let me know what you think. I would appreciate a double check.
https://i.postimg.cc/zvkSRqJY/setup-atm.png

GPU (GTX 1080), PSU (RM 650x) and SSD I already have.

p.s. I know the motherboard is an overkill for CPU but I am keeping it for future needs. Right now all 3000 ryzens seem to be performing similarly so I went with the cheapest one and I am keeping myself open for future upgrades without any hassle. Also it would be a shame to throw away stock cooler of 3700x and I would need an aftermarket one sooner or later anyways. So I will just get it now.
 
....
Right now all 3000 ryzens seem to be performing similarly so I went with the cheapest one and I am keeping myself open for future upgrades without any hassle.
.....
I'm not sure what you mean by that... there's considerable difference in performance. It most depends on how you measure it and how you use it.

There are no benchmarks that can quantitatively express just how nice it is playing a heavily threaded game (RotTR in my case) with my 8 core /16 thread 3700x vs. when i play the same game with 2 cores disabled. There are absolutely no hesitations when suddenly explosions pop up, for instance, and arrows always track in the air to the target. But I'm sure that, with more threads at it's disposal, those annoying little housekeeping tasks Windows 10 is constantly doing in the background are much less of an issue. On second thought, maybe I'm wrong, maybe that's what the 1% lows value in reviews is all about.

But if you do any video encoding / rendering you'll defo appreciate having the extra threads working to get it done too.
 
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