Which upgrade path?

nickwhi · Oct 3, 2004

Should I go the 64 bit path or stick with 32 bit computing?

I will be upgrading my processor and mainboard in the next few weeks. I have a limited budget and would like some useful guidance. Should I opt for the old faithful athlon xp 3200 with 400fsb or go for a slightly more expensive athlon 64 939 pin 3000 and suitable mainboard?

I do a lot of video encoding and play a few of the latest games occasionally.

Thanks

Nick

DonnieDarko · Oct 3, 2004

You can get a athlon64 2800+ and a msi k8n platium mobo for cheaper, plus you'll get about the same proformance(athlon64 2800+ benches about the same as a xp 3200+) and have 64 bit for the future. or you can get a a64 3000+ and still save come out cheaper than if you went with a xp 3200+.
edit: I didn't read your post in full, i mentioned s754. YOu can go with s939 and it will be more expensive. If you decide to go s939, wait a few months till the nforce4 chipset.

Watch out for the bloody Fanboys!

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Addicted, finally.Edited by DonnieDarko on 10/03/04 09:16 AM.

Mr5oh · Oct 3, 2004

Whats the rest of your system look like?

In my opinion the 3200XP is still slightly overpriced, dropping down to the 2800XP+ would save you a little money. The socket 939 might be a better choice for you, as it will deffaintly be upgradeable in the near furture. With the 3200+ you are pretty much maxed out. At least with the 939 you can always uprade the CPU again.

Performance will be about the same either way.

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El_Jefe_77 · Oct 3, 2004

I am going to disagree here. The 754 socket has the 3700, a 2.4 with 1 mb cache on it. it SMOKES! it is too expensive at the moment, but it will be around for cheaper when anyone might need it.
And thats not saying a 2.6 or 2.8 isnt comming out for the slot, if it does, no gain in 939 to justify more expensive ram, mobo, and chip.
put 50 dollars more in a video card and gain a lot more power instead of the socket.

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SO, my recommendation is that if budget is tight, go get a athlon 64 3000+, a little easier, 3200+. I am going Kv8 Pro, and theres probably a board thats cheaper than 100 dollars even. Remember, a 3.0 northwood Intel is very fast, your 3200 64 single channel will be outperforming it! I think thats a solid purchase!

Another good point that swayed me permanently is the lack of need/pressure to get pairs of memory. I am getting a 512 chip to start the system, then, I am going to add a 1 gig chip when prices fall, cant do that on your 939, always worrying about which is better, faster ram, more ram, cant go more without ripping out old, and its better to have only 2 banks filled when you OC, so you might have to rip out the old pricey ram to get more, etc etc cash flow is too high for this socket...
blech

Edited by el_jefe_77 on 10/03/04 11:59 AM.

Dalixam2 · Oct 3, 2004

I have kind of the same question, so I'm asking here instead of starting a new thread

I too don't know if I should get the 3200+ or the 64 2800+ (with 128 KB L1 / 512 KB L2). There's also the 64 3000+ with 128 KB L1 / 512 KB L2 which is only slighty more expensive.

I've also seen the 64 3200+ ((with 128 KB L1 / 512 KB L2) in-a-box for only slighly more. (Like $6 - Odd). Would that be a better buy?

My reasons for not going 64 is that it'll be around a year before Windows XP is out in a 64 bit version and it'll probably be around another 6 months before there are 64 bit drivers for hardware and such. Am I incorrect?

I was also concerned how well a 64 CPU handled 32 programs, but someone mentioned it was about the same as the Athlon 3200+.

Finally, will the 64 bit Windows be able to run 32 bit games and programs or do you have to have a dual install with an "old" Windows?

trooper11 · Oct 3, 2004

well with the possibility of dual core on s939, plus 90nm parts, i have to say s939 seems to be the better choice for long term use.

my suggestion would be to consider getting a 90nm athlon 64 3000+ for s939. you can get that for $170 and then pick out a board like the abit av8 for $107 or msi k8n neo2 for $135 depending on what features and how much youd like to spend.

i just think if you have the budget, these new parts make going to s939 easier to take and last longer in the long run. s754 would work and would still be a great systme, but i just think s939 would be a longer investment

SoDNighthawk · Oct 3, 2004

As yet we have no 64 bit Operating system so stay in the fastest CPU you can at 32 bit. This makes the last AMD XP line affordable but the Intel line has some great 32 bit CPU's that now wont break the bank roll.

Always hard when it comes to building a faster typewriter because you feel the pang of why should I drop 2 or 3 grand into a typewriter.

Well if you online game and have a little self respect you at least want to have a system that can compete and it makes a big difference between an elite player and a bad player if you have good hardware.

However I have had very little luck with Intel CPU's gaming and I don't understand why really they should by all accounts work better but they don't.

I have fast reflexes in fact I had them tested after a spinal injury and that was 20 some years ago but my right side was 20% faster then normal tests and my injured left side was now lowered was equal to normal peoples reflexes.

What I am getting at is most people don't move as fast or as controlled as I can and in computer games like Day Of Defeat they have a in game mouse sensitivity of 4. or 5. so they can target without pushing the crosshair all over the screen but they adjust their Yaw so they can turn in a circle fast.

I don't even bother with that I use a mouse sensitivity of 14.03000 and I can still shoot the eye out of a guy at 200 yards in game and run around the map through all the terrain with no problems.

I can't find optical mice that can keep up to my in game mouse speed they are to slow optically. The best one I have found to date is the Logitech standard 2 button wheel mouse and it can keep up to my game movements but I do not get any extra buttons with it.

Ok end of point here is, Intel CPU's are slow they do not allow me to move around in game correctly. Not so with AMD CPU's for some reason they have a faster response time.

It doesn't matter what graphics cards I use I can still set DoD into Developer mode in game and set fps_max to infinity on both AMD and Intel CPU's and get frame rates as high as 250 fps in game and yet both machines look like they are performing the same but they are not the Intel CPU is not up to the task.

As a rule I generally win every map I play on for both flag caps and kills and this is on 32 player servers with 16 guys on each team fighting it out.

I know Intel by spec should be better my skills show AMD is better and I have fast reflexes that Intel cannot keep up with.

We could

CPU spec's and MOB frequency's until we are blue in the face and argue numbers and benchmarks but I am giving an honest 20 years working with computers and online graphics applications such as games and if you want a CPU that delivers get a high end AMD system.

GOD LOVES CANADA

quagmire · Oct 3, 2004

However I have had very little luck with Intel CPU's gaming and I don't understand why really they should by all accounts work better but they don't.

just about everyone agrees intel is for video editins and amd is for gaming, thats pretty much agreed on even by the most hardcore fanboys

SoDNighthawk · Oct 3, 2004

I know it is agreed on but by the numbers it is wacked and out of spec.

GOD LOVES CANADA

pat · Oct 4, 2004

AMD64 are not just 64 bits cpu, they are great 32 bits CPU with 64 bits extension.... Dont listen to SOD...He mostly type long post that means almost nothing...I'm currently writing this with WinXP 64bitd beta. OK, I dont have all the drivers yet, but I still have XP pro as my main OS. Bual boot is good. I'm testing xp64 to know it a lot better when it'll be available.

Ok, video encoding is faster with Intel, but not that much. Just as gaming is faster on Amd, but not that much (well, sometime by that much). I would go with faster socket 754 than slower socket 939 for your budget as dual channel doesnt really benefit to A64 and higher mhz help for video encoding. But you wont go wrong with fast intel too. But they are more expensive too.

What I recommend ? Soltek k8an2e-gr socket 754 mobo with the faster a64 your budget allow. 1 gigs of RAM (no need to be expensive dual channel RAM or low latency RAM...plain good RAM will do as the on-die memory controller on A64 are very efficient. Get a fast SATA HDD (or 2 to set-up a raid array) and you'll be happy. That mostly the system I have here and while doing video encoding, I simply get out of the house to come back when my batch is done... Dont have time to waste to check a video being encoded, IMHO...so the minutes or 2 it takes more than the Intel is not really a big thing!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

pat · Oct 4, 2004

upgrading for long term is not good imho. New feature and performance are always added to motherboard and you end up upgrading both CPU and mobo. So that dont really matter. When dual core will be there with fantastik mobo, I'll get them, but not before.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

RichPLS · Oct 4, 2004

t doesn't matter what graphics cards I use I can still set DoD into Developer mode in game and set fps_max to infinity on both AMD and Intel CPU's and get frame rates as high as 250 fps in game and yet both machines look like they are performing the same but they are not the Intel CPU is not up to the task.

What do you mean set DoD into Developer mode?

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trooper11 · Oct 4, 2004

i never said it was the onyl reason you should upgrade, but come on, for people that dont upgrade for features every year or two, they may lieka platform that allows them to get boosts in speed for a longer period then another. right now s754 and s939 are mroe equal then ever and the big difference are really small ones, one of those being how far youll be able to lean on the system. i still use systems that are well past thier prime by just upgrading say the cpu or ram, so i do weigh that when i buy something.

SoDNighthawk · Oct 4, 2004

I knew that would get someone's attention 😉

Developer mode is used when a person is Developing maps for DoD/Half Life or Counter Strike.

If you want to try Developer mode your self type "developer 1" in the game console.

You will then start to see different information available plus you can use the fps_max setting to allow your computer to push as much fps as the system hardware is capable of. In some cases depending on where you are looking in the game your fps can peak past 800 fps.

Drawback with Developer mode is unless you have 4 plus Gig's of system hardware memory installed later you will notice in yellow text in your console that particlefxman has run out of available memory.

I still will get that message after about an hour even with 4 gigs of system ram.

Purely for map and sprite development and administrator actions. There are other uses once in developer mode that I cannot share with you but enjoy messing around with Developer and fps_max to see how many fps your computer can generate.

GOD LOVES CANADA

SoDNighthawk · Oct 4, 2004

pat you dumb [-peep-] we all know a 64 bit CPU is also a 32 bit CPU. Go [-peep-] your sister you red neck HERE'S YOUR SIGN!!

Got I hate people that are so cowardly they only want to tow the party line or say what is already apparent.

I was explaining to the guy why I choose AMD and not why he should choose AMD, but also if he games not to use Intel.

Intel sucks ass for games we all know it and I was showing him a few examples why. Sorry all to hell I did not state all the standard bandwidth tests and Benchmarks you stick in the mud nepotism's cling to like a life line in the middle of the ocean on a life raft.

Next time use your primary account to try and flame someone you chicken [-peep-].

How do you like me now ?

GOD LOVES CANADA

pat · Oct 4, 2004

As you said...
"As yet we have no 64 bit Operating system so stay in the fastest CPU you can at 32 bit. This makes the last AMD XP line affordable but the Intel line has some great 32 bit CPU's that now wont break the bank roll."
and
"pat you dumb [-peep-] we all know a 64 bit CPU is also a 32 bit CPU."

The fastest CPU are no more 32 bits..they are 64 bits efficiently running 32 bits apps...So, he is still better with an A64 2800+ than a XP 3200+. Unless he want to go with Intel. I did the switch to an A64 3000+ and I dont regret my 2.4 Ghz overclocked mobile 2500+.

Oh... that part:

"I was explaining to the guy why I choose AMD and not why he should choose AMD, but also if he games not to use Intel."

With that:
"I have fast reflexes in fact I had them tested after a spinal injury and that was 20 some years ago but my right side was 20% faster then normal tests and my injured left side was now lowered was equal to normal peoples reflexes.

What I am getting at is most people don't move as fast or as controlled as I can and in computer games like Day Of Defeat they have a in game mouse sensitivity of 4. or 5. so they can target without pushing the crosshair all over the screen but they adjust their Yaw so they can turn in a circle fast.

I don't even bother with that I use a mouse sensitivity of 14.03000 and I can still shoot the eye out of a guy at 200 yards in game and run around the map through all the terrain with no problems.

I can't find optical mice that can keep up to my in game mouse speed they are to slow optically. The best one I have found to date is the Logitech standard 2 button wheel mouse and it can keep up to my game movements but I do not get any extra buttons with it."

You are telling that guy how good you are with your superman reflex that sadly went to only human on one side of your brain after a spinal injury and eagle eyes with your fantastic mouse.. bla bla bla. Completly useless part of your post

I did not flame at you or even insult you, as you did with me. And this is the same account I have sinse I first register in december 28, 2000.. I might not have more post than you, but I do have a life outside my computer...

How do I like you now? Well, as soon as I'll press continue, then I'll forget you 'til your next useless post.

Oh..I'm not chicken..I'm libra!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

darko21 · Oct 4, 2004

""pat you dumb [-peep-] we all know a 64 bit CPU is also a 32 bit CPU. Go [-peep-] your sister you red neck HERE'S YOUR SIGN!!""

What counts is how fast a 64 bit cpu runs 32 bit software, and in this case all cpu's are not = Take the latest and greatest Itainium and compare to the fx55 (should be out very very soon) fact is no comparison at all.

Ahhh but yes alass all x86 64 bit cpu's should run x86 32 bit just fine. Just like the amd64 does.

When the heck will we see winxp-64 anyway?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

ChipDeath · Oct 4, 2004

pat, it's just not worth the effort. You should check out some of his sterling contributions in the OTHER forum.

Back on topic, I agree with the main opinions here:
- Go with 754 if you need the computer NOW, there is really not much advantage to 939.
- don't worry about future CPU compatibility, as you'll almost certainly want to replace the motherboard by the time CPU replacing time comes around. That's certainly been the case for me, even though my last 3 systems have all been socket A. (KT133/Athlon 800, KT333/XP2000+, current Nforce2 rig)

---
Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x10 (~2Ghz), 1.4 Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @418/742

Cybercraig · Oct 5, 2004

I do a lot of video encoding and play a few of the latest games occasionally.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...........................

I can play any game out there just fine. Intel still has an advantage with video-encoding. Don't let these guys make you think you will be "crippled" with a P4-3.0C or a 3.2C and a good video card. I'm already assuming you will have at least a gb of ram. In reality, a mobile XP on an NF7-S clocked at 2.375ghz will match performance with an A64-3000, all other things being equal. If you are really limited on funds that would be a decent choice.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot

Edited by Cybercraig on 10/04/04 11:29 PM.

coylter · Oct 5, 2004

Pel-heaseeeee
The a64 2800 bench much more like a p4 3ghz than any other so called xp 3200 in gaming and like a 2.8ghz elsewhere....
a64 2800 > p4 3ghz > xp3200
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Spitfire_x86 · Oct 5, 2004

Get A64 3000+ (socket 754)

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Which upgrade path?

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