Who's Got Game? Twelve Sub-$200 CPUs Compared

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I would very much enjoy reading an upgrade article. I guess I assumed upgrades were in the scope of this article since the 925 was tested and realize now it was my error thinking the 925 was the 920 and not an AM3 CPU. My apologies. You do a heck of a job producing the volume of information you do. Keep up the good work.
 
I have to point out something that I didn't see in all the comments I read with my apologies if it has in fact been stated already. If a person already has an AMD CPU, they're laughing all the way to the bank or are at least sitting pretty. The AMD upgrade path is still viable and would be the ultimate choice for any AM2+ or Athlon II/Sempron user. The reason is simple. You save $150-$200 simply by NOT BUYING A MOTHERBOARD OR RAM. I don't know how you managed to not at least mention that in the article but, here we are. I'm one of the lucky "laughing all the way to the bank" users because I was smart when I built my system. I have the MSI K9A2 Platinum motherboard so there's no reason at all to upgrade that. The AMD 790FX is still considered to be one of the pinnacle gaming chipsets and MSI boards are configured to hold up to 4 double-slot ATi cards in Quad-CrossfireX. Add to that the fact that I built my system when DDR2 was $10 per GB so I loaded my mobo with 8GB of OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2-800. There's still no need to upgrade that either. The crown jewel of the whole thing though, is the CPU. My CPU is the original Phenom II flagship, the X4 940 Black Edition. Since there is no difference at all in the architecture of the AM2+ and AM3 Phenom II (Deneb) CPUs. The only difference between them is the DDR3 memory controller in the AM3 CPUs. This means that my overclock ceiling is the same as the Phenom II X4 970 and because my CPU is a black edition, I will be able to match the 970 with ease. All in all, upgrading my CPU to match the second-highest performing CPU in your test will cost me the price of an overclock (which is of course, nothing). To be fair, after owning this CPU for almost 2 years, I haven't ever felt the need to overclock it yet. It still performs amazingly well and never slows anything down. Once I decide it has become too slow, which may be more than a year from now, I will overclock it and use the extra 800-1000MHz to bring it in line again. Once that proves to be too slow, then, and ONLY then, will I upgrade my CPU. You really have to offer alternative situations that don't fit nicely into this test. Oh well, at least I mentioned it now.
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]It seems that you're going out of your way to spin this a certain way. Why didn't you show the X3 455 vs. i3-2300 value proposition? Price is definitely considered: it's listed on the front page and the charts are listed in order of price. I don't personally go for absolute price/performance charts because they can mislead a little--often the lowest priced model will always have the best price/performance ratio, but that product can also have sub-par performance in some scenarios that is not reflected in that kind of chart. This is why i prefer to simply order the chart based on price as a relative indicator.Part of the reality of quickly changing prices, I'm afraid. Things are often written weeks before publication and we struggle to update them before publication to keep them relevant but the reality is the landscape changes quickly. I've updated the X6 price but there really isn't much difference to worry about.Um... I guess the stuff that doesn't make us over-sensationalize the minutia?[/citation]

now that the comment system seems to work, I can reply properly ... the price for X6 and i5 2400, it was not about the exact price but about the ordering ... in the chart and graphs X6 should have been at the tope given the original chart price, nothing more, nothing less.

about X3 vs 2100, cannot work with a simulated CPU. how do you know that the performance linearity will be the same ? what if not ? come back when you have a physical 2100 sample to test. then we can talks. but since you started it:

2100 - 151% of X3 price while delivering 135% performance. so still not that good.

anyway this discussion would not even start if you did do the proper graph I suggested.

 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]We've shown that the sub-$200 LGA 775 lineup doesn't have much to offer in the past, and let's face it, it's a dying platform. I dont' think anyone would recommend LGA 775 for a new system at this point. There's nowhere for it to go.[/citation]

but you did ignore the explaining part of my comment ... why ? given that the lga775 platform is quite popular (or was) then a direct comparison CPU would be good (since the phenoms are actualy direct competitors).
 


I'm not sure what you think I ignored. I think I've explained it well, you read my past few replies to other folks get an idea where this article is coming from and why it was structured so. If there's something you think isn't covered you're going to have to be a bit more specific.
 
[citation][nom]haplo602[/nom]but you did ignore the explaining part of my comment ... why ? given that the lga775 platform is quite popular (or was) then a direct comparison CPU would be good (since the phenoms are actualy direct competitors).[/citation]
Don does that already.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-overclocking-processor-recommendation,2866-5.html

As it probably could have been spelled out a little better and not clouded up with the inclusion of the x4 925 (under the upgrade guise) this is a new build comparasion where all builds would be subject to full platform cost. I wouldn't do a new 775 build unless I knew it would be a one and done or for a basic document PC.

 
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]Pentium 4 failed because of one thing - power use and heat.[/citation]

You forgot the third "one thing", inferior performance, and the fourth "one thing", price/performance ratio.

Get over it. Pentium 4 was a loser from introduction to obsolescence. You can throw in the Pentium D in there as well.

 
[citation][nom]Communism[/nom]My old ass E4300 (which I got at the time for CHEAPER than the current SB procs) OCed to 3.5 ghz trashes the dual-core SB procs that can't overclock[/citation]

So it's true... there is a link between Communism and drug induced delusions!
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]
We've shown that the sub-$200 LGA 775 lineup doesn't have much to offer in the past, and let's face it, it's a dying platform. I dont' think anyone would recommend LGA 775 for a new system at this point. There's nowhere for it to go.[/citation]

I would have liked to see a 775 and maybe a 920, simply because so many people (including me) are kicking around the idea of upgrading from one. If it were in here, I could compare the performance and see if it was worth it. As it is, I know how all the new cheap procs fall out, but I have no idea where my old Q9550 falls in.

Oh, yeah, comment system still funky. It pulled in an old quote several times, finally I just manually edited your comment into my reply.
 
By the way, great article, I strongly agree with the choice of 1920x1080 because these LCD's are available cheap now, anyone can put one on an economy build PC. Ditto the choice of the GTX 480, while not everyone can afford one now, we want to know what processor won't bottleneck when we get something at that performance level later.

I (and others) kept banging the upgrade comparison drum at another well-known tech site, until they started including a 8800GT and/or 9800GT and a Socket 775 9650 with most of their comparisons. There are still huge numbers of Q6600's out there gaming away, not everyone is going to replace them with high-end i7 CPU's if a cheap SB will do the job. My Q9550 can still game but I'd like to know where it falls in, and not just on a one-size-fits-all chart.

So, next time, please throw in some upgrade love, and test against some representative older platform that we can all relate to. We might not all own a Q6600/8800GT but we can all relate our systems to such a benchmark platform.
 
Wow! What a joke!

Just look at the ram used in the test and the video card. OCZ ram is garbage and the GTX400 series cards are know for MB compatibility problems that result in decrease performance. Bet the results would have been a-lot better for AMD if a GTX200 series card or Radion 5000/6000 series card was used in the tests...

Let's not forget about ATI! AMD is not just about processors!


Also, AMD's big problem is a lack of good high-end MBs and MBs that offer good memory compatibiliy. AMD needs to come out with a new MB design standard along with some new CPUs.

As for intel. intel CPUs and motherboards are getting a little too pricy...
 
Just look at the ram used in the test and the video card. OCZ ram is garbage and the GTX400 series cards are know for MB compatibility problems that result in decrease performance. Bet the results would have been a-lot better for AMD if a GTX200 series card or Radion 5000/6000 series card was used in the tests...

Are you suggesting that alternate RAM is going to magically provide a speed boost at the same latencies and clocks? That clock-for-clock, same latencies, OCZ ram will perform slower on a stable system? What proof do you have of this outrageous claim?

As for the graphics card, you're suggesting that a GTX 480 would magically decrease performance over, say, a vastly inferior GeForce GTX 280? Even though we can clearly see consistent benchmark results here, well within the expectations of performance and better than a GTX 280 would ever provide? You're suggesting a GTX 280 on an AMD platform would meet a GTX 480 on Intel? Once again, what kind of proof do you have?

I've been working intimately with RAM, motherboards, and graphics cards for years on a daily basis and your comments do not make sense.


Wow! What a joke!

Are you being sarcastic, or is your post the joke you're talking about? I honestly can't tell.

If you're joking I suppose the whole thing would make a little more sense.
But if that's the case it should be funny, shouldn't it? As it is, your post merely seems sad and misled.
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]I'm not sure what you think I ignored. I think I've explained it well, you read my past few replies to other folks get an idea where this article is coming from and why it was structured so. If there's something you think isn't covered you're going to have to be a bit more specific.[/citation]

if you note the time of my post and the time your forum had issues, you'd see I could NOT read your prior replies at that time.

anyway, the point is following:

1. Phenoms are "old" technology, yet they are the only thing AMD has available, thus comparing upgrade paths based on the articel is easy for the AMD camp (there was already a comment from another reader about this).

2. Intel has 2 (2.5 actualy) generations between lga775 and 1155 systems. Thus Intel users have to make a step more (look into benchmarks between Core2Duo and Qad and first gen Core i5/i3) to establish their current level of performance.

Cutting one AMD (or one simulated SB) and including a popular Core2Quad (8300 or 8400 maybe) would make the article much more usable.

I do not support the silly idea of buying a new lga775 based system today. SB is more cost and performance efficient.

Just as a side note, Anandtech Bench is a very usable tool for this. Tom's is lacking anything similar, thus your articles should be more complete 🙂 It is much easier to have a look at your article (which itself is good) then jump to AT and look up the missing bits in the Bench.
 


Seriously?
I'm sorry man, but I don't sit around logging forum issue timetables in order to cross-reference your reply... :)



I think I already replied to those points previously, so you can check them out above.

 
I haven't ever bought an AMD processor but I think I'm going AMD for my next build. Intel consistently makes changes that force me to buy an new motherboard. OFTEN TIMES THE SOCKET DOESN'T CHANGE but the new processors still don't work with the older motherboard. There was even a case where I bought the high end chipset (975 I believe it was) and it would not accept a newer dual core cpu WHILE THE CHEAPER CHIPSET (965) would! Yes if there is a significant change I would buy a newer motherboard (upgrading ram from DDR2 to DDR3 and now getting one of those great SSD at 500mb per second warrants SATA3) but not to just upgrade a cpu! I appreciate all comments, I may be missing something. I get the idea that AMD CPUs have better backwards compatability.
 

You forgot that Prescott ran at clocks similar to the current Intel CPUs. The top of the line P4 ran at 3.8 Ghz which is higher than the current CPUs stock speeds. So, don't say it had limited speeds. The architecture had very poor performance per clock ratio. In fact, my laptop's core 2 1.66Ghz happily outperformed my former desktop's P4 3Ghz. I estimated performance of my laptop's CPU at about 3.4Ghz of P4 based on my former desktop which is more than twice performance per clock. And current Intel CPUs are noticeably faster per clock than Core 2. There is very little from Prescott which targeted high clock rates but little performance per clock in current CPUs that farther increased performance per clock.
 
I reviewed the article that compared different generations of CPUs at same clock speed (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quad-core-cpu,2499-10.html), so I did the same using the THG’s Desktop CPU Charts 2010. I wanted to compare different CPUs and different architecture at same clock speed, but that was impossible without several motherboards and several CPUs so I used Cinebench 11.5 (single-threaded) benchmark already available at this site. I wanted to see how old my Core 2 Duo 8400 is. Since benchmark results are displayed in points, and I wanted to see how fast the core of each CPU is at same clock speed, I divided the clock speed (since benchmark is using only one core, and that’s the time when maximum turbo kicks in, I used the turbo frequency instead of the normal frequency if a CPU had Turbo) with points (I multiplied the points with 100, example; 0, 93 is just 93 and 1.15 is 115) and I got the frequency that is required to encode 1 point of the result. I could divide the points with frequency, which would give me the point per MHz, but decided against it cause it would result with a lot of decimal points, and the results would be messy. I used all available representatives of Phenom, Athlon, Core 2, Core i3, Core i5 and Core i7 families. Almost all families except Core i3 family had multiple CPUs, I used arithmetic mean to calculate average value per family of processors. I wanted to calculate architecture mean, but since the CPU families and architecture scaled nicely I decided against calculating the CPU architecture mean. I came up with some surprising results. If 2 families have the same architecture, if you want the most efficient family of CPUs (per core & per clock) you should subtract 1 of the name of more expensive family. More features do not mean more performance! Core i3 within the Clarksdale family is faster then Core i5, the same applies to Lynnfield family. I did not test the Gates family, but I can tell you right away, Bill always wins!

After dividing frequency with point and then adding all the numbers and dividing it with number of CPUs I came up with these results. Less is better, cause it means the CPU can score a point with less MHz, and that says it’s architecturally better.

Sandy Bridge Core i5 and Core i7 = 24, 86

Identical results in Core i5 and Core i7 family. No surprise there!

Bloomfield Core i7 = 29, 08

Just 4c CPU and memory controller, no wonder this architecture yields best results (if you don’t count Sandy Bridge, which is built a lot after Bloomfield’s moved in next door, but still, they can’t walk over the bridge 🙂.

Gulftown Core i7 = 29, 535

6c is a little too crowded I guess, but this CPU is for workstations and heavy multitasking, so more cores has a advantage over pure one core efficiency, and this generation of CPUs had a lot of new features, 32 nm saves the day in the case of Gulftown I guess…

Lynnfield Core i5 = 29, 76

Integrated PCIe controller, DMI interface, memory controller… simplicity of Gulftown wins!

Lynnfield Core i7 = 29, 915

Only a little faster uncore clock and hyper-threading yield worse results then Core i5 version of the Lynnfield architecture. Why? Simplicity wins! No hyper-threading means no additional code that slows down the execution… or something like that anyway. This Lynnfield brother has more aggressive Turbo and a few more options. Situation that resembles the situation of Clarksdale CPUs, except in that case, faster brother has no Turbo at all (but still does better then slower brother).

Clarksdale Core i3 = 30, 2

Only one CPU in this family was tested, so the results were clear. This is 32 nm chip, Lynnfield is 45 nm chip, so why did Lynnfield win? Lynnfield has no GPU in it, no AES-NI, and the faster Lynnfield has no hyper-threading. Simplicity wins! Still, this is a 32 nm chip that is almost as fast as Lynnfield CPUs per MHz, it handles excellent in games, should overclock better because it uses 32 nm process, and it costs less then Lynnfield counterpart. Multi-threading apart, perfect gaming solution!

Clarksdale Core i5 = 30, 76

Core i5 Clarksdale version has a lot more features implemented in the chip itself, Turbo is just one of the things that you have to pay the price for, AES-NI is a must have if you encrypt, and so on. 2 Clarksdale Core i5 chips were tested and they both have the same result, even though one has 900 MHz GPU frequency and one has 700 MHz frequency (just like tested Clarksdale Core i3).

Core 2 family = 32, 27

I used both core 2 duo and core 2 quad CPUs, cause their results were practically the same. My opinion is that my Core 2 Duo 8400 is still holding on. Recent article published on this site (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i3-gaming,2588-13.html) tested Clarksdale 2c CPU and AMD Radeon 5850 (I still miss ATI in the name of mighty Radeon), the Clarksdale 2c CPU was more then enough for Radeon, and with a bit of an overclocking I bet my Core 2 duo would hold it’s own since it reaches 5 GHz on air cooling on almost stock frequency.

Phenom II = 33, 01

Athlon II = 34, 1

In the article I first mentioned, the one that tested different CPUs, all with 4c and all on 2,8 GHz, the conclusion was that AMD was lagging at least 2 generation behind. Let’s do a little counting. Core 2, Bloomfield, and then came Lynnfield, Clarksdale, Gulftown, and now Sandy Bridge. Core 2 is one, Bloomfield and Lynnfield 2 since they both use 45 nm production process, Clarksdale and Gulftown 3, at 32 nm Intel starts to play hard ball, and now Sandy Bridge. That’s 4! They offer more cores per buck, high frequencies, low price, but the chip itself is going nowhere! They can keep pace with Core 2 Duo, they add a core practically for free, up the frequency, you can maybe unlock a dormant core, sometimes you can even overclock if you hit revision, stepping, changing of the tides, if Lord wishes to help you and so on, but still, Intel overclocks much better, and newest solution from AMD is still a lot slower clock per clock then my Core 2 Duo, and since most of the games don’t utilize more then 2 cores, if all CPUs on the market were produced by the AMD, I would be set for life!




 
You should only compare final prices of systems with same amount of RAM, same graphic card and same hard drive.Also, only AMD has real options under and around 100 $so you had to extend the limit to 200.No one really needs for gaming very powerful processors, AMD Athlon II 640 at 100$ covers every game in town with the appropriate graphic card.
 
lol @ AMD. AMD's get waxed by Intel's third string line up the 1156's, it gets worse for them when they go up against Intel's 1336 builds, and it's a total slaughter for AMD when they line up against Intel's latest line the 1155 Sandy Bridge. Maybe THG should start doing benchmarks of AMD vs Intel LGA 775 9650 😵
 

Actually they can. Plenty of peeps have turned on all the "optimizations" in the bios on an H67 board with a cpu like a 2500 and got it up to 3.8+ghz..then you have the "turbo boost" on top of that. AMD is only a good buy in regards to gaming for peeps on a super tight budget (welfare checks), or they live in a third world country that doesn't have access to Intel cpu's and boards. Benchmarks on any and every site all tell the same story.... AMD has been sucking wind since the release of the first LGA 775 core2duo.
 
I would have thought u would use Bad Company 2 as it tends to like more cores then most games
 
|That a dual-core Hyper-Threaded Sandy Bridge-based CPU can not only compete with, but also beat an AMD Phenom II X4 970 in the latest games is somewhat shocking"

How is this shocking at all considering the K10 is 2 generations behind Sandy Bridge? I think it's more shocking a Phenom can still sort of keep up with Intel's latest stuff despite being so far behind.
 
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