Why all the AMD hate, guys?

[werxen]

Let us stop the fanboyism and acknowledge AMD's market strategy - the AVERAGE consumer not troubled by synthetic benchmark scores or maxing our Crysis. I see too much hate going on from both camps - let us make love not war. But in reality anyone who 'hates' AMD needs a friggin reality check. Intel will not be on top forever - anyone remember the Athlon series? People were sure AMD would lead the way forever after that.

 

[sighQ2]

Recompiling would require access to the source code. No software company gives away its most valuable asset for free 😉

Yes, thanks.

In the talk I had with the guy who did Hollywood movie renderings - think stuff like star wars, star trek, terminator, etc. - his company had proprietary software and compilers, etc. no expense was spared. It was all about time.

They thought long and hard right down to a deadline before switching from AMD.

(i saw a fresh boarder somewhere btw.) surprise
good comments.

 

[sighQ2]

Thx again cjl
Nice pictures. Looks pretty interesting.

Anything about Bernoulli in play there? That's about all I recall about flow and pressures.

 

[sighQ2]

Heres an interesting outlook on Intels abilities concerning gpus, LRB and netbooks:

GPU manufacturers, such as Nvidia and AMD, through its affiliate, ATI, are developing General Purpose GPUs and programming interfaces that
4
threaten Intel’s control over the computing platform. This General Purpose GPU computing (“GP GPU”) platform has the potential to marginalize Intel’s long-standing CPU-centric, x86-based strategy. Currently, both high-performance computing and mainstream applications and operating systems are beginning to adopt GP GPU computing functionality.
17.
GPUs also could facilitate new entry or expansion in the relevant CPU markets by other firms, such as Nvidia, AMD, or Via. The need for high-end microprocessors may be reduced as more computing tasks are handled by the GPU. Some OEMs could get equivalent performance at a cheaper cost by using a lower-end CPU with a GPU microprocessor.
18.
As it did in the CPU markets, Intel recognized the threat posed by GPUs and GP GPU computing and its technological inferiority in these markets and has taken a number of anticompetitive measures to combat it. These tactics include, among others, deception relating to competitors’ efforts to enable their GPUs to interoperate with Intel’s newest CPUs; adopting a new policy of denying interoperability for certain competitive GPUs; establishing various barriers to interoperability; degrading certain connections between GPUs and CPUs; making misleading statements to industry participants about the readiness of Intel’s GPUs; and unlawful bundling or tying of Intel’s GPUs with its CPUs resulting in below-cost pricing of relevant products.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/adjpro/d9341/091216intelcmpt.pdf

Of course, LRB is almost here, coming soon, IGPs have no effect on the markets, and lastly, Intel should charge more for the Atom chip seperately, compared to a SoC setup. Oh and Vista? We dont need no stinking Vista for our IGPs

Now, dont come after me for staing this, as this is the FTCs position regarding Intel

I thought I recognized this.

Your other (next) post links to [agner's blog].

agner showed up at AMDzone a couple weeks ago - they are having one amazing discussion on compilers and instruction sets. agner had to appear because some people did not quite get where he was coming from. It's a good read - especially if you can follow the tek talk. It's interesting even if you can't because it outlines the problems and illustrates spintel switching standards unprofessionally regarding instruction sets - keeping the competition off balance deliberately
- anti competitive -

agner's blog is on my todo list also.


here's the discussion with agner at the Zone.

http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=137269

 

[Chad Boga]

agner showed up at AMDzone a couple weeks ago - they are having one amazing discussion on compilers and instruction sets. agner had to appear because some people did not quite get where he was coming from.

That is because they are stupid, immature and insane.

- anti competitive -

Intel has no obligation to help out its competitors. Intel invested money in it's compiler efforts to benefit them, no one else.

Next I imagine there will be clowns complaining that Intel don't fab AMD's CPU's for them

 

[cjl]

Thx again cjl
Nice pictures. Looks pretty interesting.

Anything about Bernoulli in play there? That's about all I recall about flow and pressures.

Not really in this one - bernoulli has to do with incompressible flows (air can be assumed to be incompressible at low speeds, so any object moving less than mach 0.3 or so can use it). That's part of the reason the simulations take so long, is that you can't use any of those simple methods.

 

[sighQ2]

That is because they are stupid, immature and insane.

- anti competitive -

Intel has no obligation to help out its competitors. Intel invested money in it's compiler efforts to benefit them, no one else.

Next I imagine there will be clowns complaining that Intel don't fab AMD's CPU's for them

I am no longer a member there due to some admins personal psyche issues that came flying at me in a hidden section of the forum - I deleted my posts and announced my departure and reasons why; I bid them adieu and thanked them for a great learning experience. I learned a lot there; and offered what I could, when I could.

There are some brilliant people there. Some idiot fan boys here are just spreading fud - and they have no interest in learning AMD. Interesting, one can learn a lot of real truth about spintel there too. surprise.

Thanks for offering more than a one-liner cheapshot. What you mention about compilers is true; but the distortion that follows after those basics is the problem - and it is well known to many people. You could follow that link and learn about it if you want to. What you mention is only the beginning. I don't claim to understand all of it either; but I am willing to follow the truth. Through some forum discussions, people at the zone discover a lot of truths - it's a group effort. One technique they allow is adversarial discussion - some start as flame wars, and then resolve to useful info - this allows a view of both sides of the coin. But some are just there to flame; they get booted; but if they get real, they stay. It's not just a case of enforced loyalty to AMD. Indeed, some of the members are extremely critical of AMD; BUT they want improvement - they aren't just insulting, whining, and trying to run things into the ground. It's pretty real there; and the discussions were very informative for me - but one day I joined a political discussion - then I quit. Had to. I still lurk there sometimes - might join again; under a different name. Right now, I am content to read and learn - usually.


Thx for your comments.

 

[Chad Boga]

I am no longer a member there due to some admins personal psyche issues that came flying at me in a hidden section of the forum - I deleted my posts and announced my departure and reasons why; I bid them adieu and thanked them for a great learning experience. I learned a lot there; and offered what I could, when I could.

What was your username there? What you said rings a bell and I suspect I saw it unfolding.

There are some brilliant people there.

Who?

Interesting, one can learn a lot of real truth about spintel there too.

What's with the term "spintel", do you realise how hard it is to take anyone seriously if they are using terms like that?

One technique they allow is adversarial discussion - some start as flame wars, and then resolve to useful info - this allows a view of both sides of the coin.

LOL!!! They boot anyone who doesn't drink the green Kool Aid, that is why they booted Kaa.

Scientia made a fool of himself in being unable to overclock an i5-750 and when people tried to help him, they firstly got abused by Abinstein, and when they told him to back off, The Ghost used that as an excuse to ban them for trolling.

You can read more about them covering their arses here:

http://tinyurl.com/yek8sv4

http://tinyurl.com/ydudwfz

http://tinyurl.com/ya5sby2


EDIT : Let's see if TinyURL works

 

[cjl]

Chad: if you need to link to x c p u s, you could always use tinyurl. That works fine, and avoids the issue you discovered with your links there.

 

[yannifb]

Here's the current flow sim I'm doing - it's a rocket at mach 2.8 (note the CPU time readout):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/chris_lapanse/random crap/Supersonicflowsim.png

And the CPU usage:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/chris_lapanse/random crap/Solidworksflowsimulation.png

Huh... those do look like they would take a while. What i do is run particle collisions (like a proton of blank colliding with blank, basically simulating a supercollider) which takes a lot of power, but trust me if you found yourself a Stream/CUDA enabled program, you save yourself days. Oh and btw i was referring to an AMD Firestream computing card.

 

[Chad Boga]

Chad: if you need to link to x c p u s, you could always use tinyurl. That works fine, and avoids the issue you discovered with your links there.

Thanks a lot for that info.

 

[randomizer]

You can also use the xtremecpu.com domain. It was never added to the profanity filter.

 

[cjl]

Huh... those do look like they would take a while. What i do is run particle collisions (like a proton of blank colliding with blank, basically simulating a supercollider) which takes a lot of power, but trust me if you found yourself a Stream/CUDA enabled program, you save yourself days. Oh and btw i was referring to an AMD Firestream computing card.

Oh, I'd love it if they would incorporate that kind of thing into solidworks (or another flow simulation program that I can get for a reasonable cost). I'm hoping that perhaps next year's solidworks release will take advantage of DirectCompute for the simulations.

 

[randomizer]

What was your username there? What you said rings a bell and I suspect I saw it unfolding.

If i was to take a guess, I would say it started with Z. 😀

 

[Chad Boga]

If i was to take a guess, I would say it started with Z. 😀

Oh my GOD!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[jimmysmitty]

So youre saying that todays IGPs with lower clocks wont be bested by ones using 2 process changes, HKMG, higher clocks and 320 shaders?
Are you just slamming ATI here, or AMD?
You must think very little of ATIs abilities if you really believe this.
Or, is it more to the slam AMD at all costs thing?
You should sell your crap ATI card then, and dont look forwards to anything better, necause AMD bought them up, if thats the excuse you use.
As for casual gaming, what the people saying things like that dont understand is, this isnt good enough, and leaves the gap in gaming too wide for dev down the road, which is what Ive been saying all along, and have welcomed this "not gonna happen, not needed, they sell the most of both so why bother?" IGP thats coming, despite such successes, so again, why bother, especially, as you say, fusion wont make a difference anyways?

Wow thanks for twisting my words and putting words in my mouth. Not once did I ever say that ATIs GPUs were crap. What I said is that I have no faith in Fusion to take over as the low end GPUs. If you think a IGP will outdo a discrete GPU especially when the IGP will be next to the CPU and put under more heat restraints.

Do you need to keep pushing he same issue or something? Do you need to take my words so far out of context that they don't even relate?

I love my ATI GPU. I just wish that AMD didn't buy them so that they would work closer with game devs like they started to do before the buy out.

As for sigh2Q.......

I wounder where that money from Intel is. I mean it would be nice to get paid that well.......

 

[yomamafor1]

There are some brilliant people there. Some idiot fan boys here are just spreading fud - and they have no interest in learning AMD. Interesting, one can learn a lot of real truth about spintel there too. surprise.

There are no longer brilliant people there. The only one I would consider sane would be MU_Engineer, and even he doesn't post that much over there.

Thanks for offering more than a one-liner cheapshot. What you mention about compilers is true; but the distortion that follows after those basics is the problem - and it is well known to many people. You could follow that link and learn about it if you want to. What you mention is only the beginning. I don't claim to understand all of it either; but I am willing to follow the truth. Through some forum discussions, people at the zone discover a lot of truths - it's a group effort. One technique they allow is adversarial discussion - some start as flame wars, and then resolve to useful info - this allows a view of both sides of the coin. But some are just there to flame; they get booted; but if they get real, they stay. It's not just a case of enforced loyalty to AMD. Indeed, some of the members are extremely critical of AMD; BUT they want improvement - they aren't just insulting, whining, and trying to run things into the ground. It's pretty real there; and the discussions were very informative for me - but one day I joined a political discussion - then I quit. Had to. I still lurk there sometimes - might join again; under a different name. Right now, I am content to read and learn - usually.

LOL...useful group effort? The only group effort I've seen when I was there was their attempt to start flame wars, and attempt to disprove others' arguments by attacking them personally. And their conclusions from those so called "group effort" are often wrong and biased. One of conclusions from their "group effort" were that "i5 750 couldn't overclock above 3.2Ghz." A lot of people have gone to great length to prove them wrong, but of course, they're just "discovering the truth", according to you. I personally was banned immediately after I simply linked a review site that showed Intel's Core i7 trouncing Phenom II in almost every benchmarks.

Seriously, going to AMDzone to learn about the truth is the same as learning about a product from its advertisements.

 

[yomamafor1]

you mean when AMD have something to better Intel with.

Actually I was responding to one of our beloved, fact-oriented moderator and his relentless assault on how Intel IGPs sucks, and how people will switch to AMD platform in droves because they can no longer play Steam games on 4500HD.

So youre saying that todays IGPs with lower clocks wont be bested by ones using 2 process changes, HKMG, higher clocks and 320 shaders?

You completely misunderstood jimmy's point. His point was that Fusion from AMD will not bring a major change to the performance table, but rather provide a lower cost solution for OEM partners as well as consumers.

Secondly, please provide link to your claim that Fusion has 320 shaders. From what I've seen so far, most indications point to a RV710 core, which features 40 stream processors. Aside from that, given the fact that Fusion is going to be two dies sharing the same CPU package, it will be given a very strict TDP.

Are you just slamming ATI here, or AMD?
You must think very little of ATIs abilities if you really believe this.
Or, is it more to the slam AMD at all costs thing?
You should sell your crap ATI card then, and dont look forwards to anything better, necause AMD bought them up, if thats the excuse you use.
As for casual gaming, what the people saying things like that dont understand is, this isnt good enough, and leaves the gap in gaming too wide for dev down the road, which is what Ive been saying all along, and have welcomed this "not gonna happen, not needed, they sell the most of both so why bother?" IGP thats coming, despite such successes, so again, why bother, especially, as you say, fusion wont make a difference anyways?

Hmm.... the change of topic, the absolute misunderstanding of one's point... looks so familiar to me.

Oh yeh, they are the tactics used regularly by the "truth finders" on AMDzone.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

jimmy, read up on fusion before destroying its possibilites.

I know you like your ATI card, as do I, and was being sarcastic, and AMD buying them didnt ruin them, as the 5xxx series is AMDs decision, not ATIs, tho it is using mainly the R600 arch.

Have a lil faith man, heheh

Im thinking we will all be presently surprised by fusion, since it appears to have around your old cards perf, which is great for low end/entry level.

Dont confuse what Im saying by the early models which may appear, which is nothing more than what Intel is doing, speaking of which, if the early ATI IGPs are SoC, look at Intels models, and their ocing abilities. The clocks are way higher than before.

1 more year, and things will change for good, and for the good

 

[sighQ2]

There are no longer brilliant people there. The only one I would consider sane would be MU_Engineer, and even he doesn't post that much over there.




LOL...useful group effort? The only group effort I've seen when I was there was their attempt to start flame wars, and attempt to disprove others' arguments by attacking them personally. And their conclusions from those so called "group effort" are often wrong and biased. One of conclusions from their "group effort" were that "i5 750 couldn't overclock above 3.2Ghz." A lot of people have gone to great length to prove them wrong, but of course, they're just "discovering the truth", according to you. I personally was banned immediately after I simply linked a review site that showed Intel's Core i7 trouncing Phenom II in almost every benchmarks.

Seriously, going to AMDzone to learn about the truth is the same as learning about a product from its advertisements.

I have seen what you post here - lots, well, enough that I simply skim and see the usual nothing to say really - sorry if that offends but perpetual spin and cheerleading for spintel will never favourably impress me. However, I can reconsider and actually read your posts and take them seriously if you think I have misunderstood you. Do you think I should do that for future reference? Or perhaps you prefer to just discredit me instead? That's a popular sport with a lot of lameass morons here - many simply spew crap in all threads - the level of seriousness here is severely hampered by that. It can be exciting being at odds with people; but that's hardly what I call useful. I can't change people. The only one I can sometimes control is myself. Perhaps you are better than that. I try to be open-minded; but it's easier here, it often seems, to be at war with utter stupidity. I don't really think there's much to lose here; and possibly something to gain, unless the price is too high. I consider this to be a spintel paid site - and I hate spintel and love the AMD scene. That puts me on a pedestal in a site where mockery, minimization, general abuse and bs spin propaganda are supported by all the official publications, news articles, test reports, etc. as a starting point. I have nothing to lose here - that's what makes it interesting. AMD is merely patronized here generally. spintel is worshipped and it's all based on lies, misrepresentation, abuse, and especially a very subtle placation.

Your description of getting banned from the the zone is minimal and simplistic - you could support your comments by linking to the thread that caused you to be banned. Was it your intent to just defecate in the place and think that was cool? There's a lot that do the equivalent of that.

I liked the zone and made some serious contributions while I was there because I wanted to and I wanted to payback for what I was learning. And I wanted to support AMD. I became quite useful to a cause I willingly supported. But I was stepped on one day; and then banned for a week; and then returned and quit and deleted everything I could - my petty revenge. I should have been banned for numerous blatant other things but it was a personal political discussion that took me down - and this in a forum where it was ok to say anything, anything, anything - members only political - I went all esoteric on them, and they went crazy - so yeh, I know they are crazy - but it's not like the bs that's spoken here about them - what's said here is mere ignorance, and misrepresentation, and people playing cool.

It's not easy being an AMD supporter - the spintel marketing machine has a grip on people here that is like brainwash. To be an AMD fan, you have to want it, choose it. I suppose that's enough for people to see me as crazy. But I see it as extremely dangerous to support the terrorism of spintel and lay down like a good little sheep while they rape everything. I only do what I believe in; I have to be true to what I know is true. There is always more to learn. Perhaps you will be the next teacher; or through these blatant comments, I will learn something I have been pursuing a long time. I can only gain here; there is nothing to lose. There is nothing here that I need. But with real people, it is something different. Seems to me I recall something real about you, or at least having that impression. You are pretty outspoken too.

The comment you make about learning from ads is not the thing. I learned stuff at the zone about the inner world of processors, etc. etc. - and I thought I knew a lot already. Not so; I was often reduced to reading stuff that was so far over my head that I was googling for info just to establish the general drift of the topic. There are some very knowledgeable people there; and yes, MU Eng, is one of them. There are others. Some of them are high profile and subject to ridicule by the crows that live here. Some labelled insane can run circles around most of the participants here. Truth is like a pearl. Don't cast your pearls before swine. Cast garbage and they love it; it is food to them; and they know not what they are. And often, not who they are either.

Thanks for dropping in. I don't know why I post stuff about me; there's no respect here from too many. I guess I don't care what they think. At least, their world is not where I want to be - so I am not here in that sense. Petty minds see truth and marvel at it like some alien thing. It is relatively rare here; but not entirely absent. I can think of a handful of people here that are worthy of attention; the rest I struggle to remain open to the chance that they might wake up and discover their own ability to remember themselves for 5 seconds.

and then I pushed the submit button

 

[cjl]

SighQ2: People would take you a LOT more seriously if you stopped calling Intel "Spintel". It's pointless, and does not achieve anything except to show that you are mindlessly defending AMD. This may or may not actually be the case, but it is certainly how it appears in the tone of your posts, in no small part due to the "spintel" nonsense. AMD makes excellent processors, and I have even recommended them to friends. Intel does have the faster CPUs right now for heavy computation though, and that has been shown many times (with a variety of compilers). AMD makes a compelling case for anyone looking at CPUs below $150 or so, and have excellent gaming and general use CPUs, but you're current technique of defending them is not going to convince anyone.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

YMM it cant have 40 anyways, it has to have 80, and yes, these are for this year, not next year, when theyll truly be on chip

Thats described as per engine, meaning totally scalable IGPs. from what Ive read, BD will have 320.

Remember, theyre going from 55 to 28nm, thats 2 nodes, and at this point, its perf first, as costs are small, so while I recognize his point, it doesnt fit.

Seems youre using my posts to change the topic, and havnt addressed my points at all, and no, like I said, I got his point, and even said what hed say before he said it as proof, or, AMD buying ATI ruined it. Thus its failure, and then youre here telling me itll be 40 shaders, and guess who misunderstood who?

It has to be 80, since 16x5 is 80. AMD has said its based on the 5xxx series, and not the 3xxx series

So, look it up, and see what Im talking about, and how thingsll change, permanently

 

[sighQ2]

imho and repeated experience with jim smit, he indulges in placation, offering the small change to AMD, and the big bucks to spintel. That's the best of it; the worst of it is worse; but spin it is. general discreditation.

It is difficult to be here at times.

 

[amdfangirl]

There are no longer brilliant people there. The only one I would consider sane would be MU_Engineer, and even he doesn't post that much over there.

🙁

 

[Chad Boga]

It is difficult to be here at times.

Maybe increasing the dosage of your medication will help there.

Even though the idiot Mods banned you for what you supposedly said in that Politics forum, the truth is that they were keen to get rid of you because you were embarrassing them with your loopy posts in the main section.

They felt that your posts there were proof positive of how out of touch many AMDZone regulars were, and because they didn't feel they could ban you because you loved AMD too much, they found another reason to spare them the embarrassment you were causing.

In fact I am pretty sure at one point they thought you were an Intel troll trying to make AMD fanboys look bad, so ridiculous was the nonsense you were spouting.

When the creeps at AMDZone decide your love of AMD is unhealthy, then you know you have a problem.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

And thus my sarcastic post, which was totally misunderstood, as it was being accused of my misunderstnding what hed said.
If he likes ATI, why no more? And why would ATI change? P2 has done ok, but the 4 and 5xxx series have done very very well.
So why destroy something you like just because of its new parent company?
Theyve done better since they wer acquired.

Its times like this when I get accused of being a AMD fan that leaves me astounded, the irony is so thick at times.

The only preference I admit to is ATI, much like jimmy, but the similarities seems to end there, as my allegences end there, and go no further.

So, dont be fooled of my uplifting currently about AMD, which since theyve bought ATI, and since they need a boost, better infos etc, and just more business for competitions sake, Ive spent more than my share on them lately, and while I try to stop, its apparent it still needs to be done here.

I offer up infos on LRB, gpgpu, the lowering of the importance of the cpu etc and people just dont get it, but it seems LRB isnt here, the FTC sees my point, as does AMD, so does Intel with their highest increase in perf ever coming on their IGPs, tho we/they/ dont need them Im told etc.

You may not like what Im saying, either side, Im brutally honest, and make no qualms about it, and things like Phenom, Intels IGPs, LRBs mountain to climb to do common raster, with new drivers on a totally different design, with new driver teams writing the drivers, it isnt here. Doent mean I dont like LRB, or that Phenom had a few decent things going forwards etc, but I see where its going, and if that doesnt fit the current fanbase, I really dont care