[SOLVED] why does it seem like my opponents actions are instantaneous online

[hiro928]

this happens for a plethora of games, not just a few, but to take a few games as example, in WWE2K22 it seems like my opponents reverse every one of my moves without fail, but the button prompt for me to do a reversal is on screen for less than a second, then in games like Rainbow Six Siege, it seems like the only time i can get a kill is if the other guy doesn't see me, if he sees me, it seems like it's again, only for half a second, then i'm dead, i don't understand why this is? i don't think it's my internet, i've run speed tests and i'm getting about 450 Mbps down and 25 up with a ping of about 8 ms, what could be the issue?

 

[Ralston18]

Depending on where you live, where the opponent(s) live, and the host game servers etc., it likely will simply narrow down to the internet connections and paths between all involved.

Connections are not direct. All of your game play data (back and forth) goes through any number of servers ("hops") and that path can actually change on the fly going both ways.

All other things such as reaction times, computer specs, distances, etc,. being equal (which they actually are not) the one factor beyond your control is transmission rates, packet routes, dropped packets etc.

To get a sense of that run "tracert 8.8.8.8" (without quotes) via the Command Prompt.

You can also target other websites by changing 8.8.8.8 (Google) to the website's IP address. Some sites use multiple addresses.

Once beyond the 2nd or maybe 3rd hop there is little that you can do to improve things.

 

[Frag Maniac]

this happens for a plethora of games, not just a few, but to take a few games as example, in WWE2K22 it seems like my opponents reverse every one of my moves without fail, but the button prompt for me to do a reversal is on screen for less than a second, then in games like Rainbow Six Siege, it seems like the only time i can get a kill is if the other guy doesn't see me, if he sees me, it seems like it's again, only for half a second, then i'm dead, i don't understand why this is? i don't think it's my internet, i've run speed tests and i'm getting about 450 Mbps down and 25 up with a ping of about 8 ms, what could be the issue?

You need to test more than just your internet speed and ping separately. You need to check the ping while playing. It can vary according to what server you're on and how far away it is, and it's crucial to fast reaction time and accurate shots.

Most popular game browsers like Steam and many others have a feature where you can monitor the ping while playing. There are also many 3rd party apps that can do so, and some are free.

 

[hiro928]

Depending on where you live, where the opponent(s) live, and the host game servers etc., it likely will simply narrow down to the internet connections and paths between all involved.

Connections are not direct. All of your game play data (back and forth) goes through any number of servers ("hops") and that path can actually change on the fly going both ways.

All other things such as reaction times, computer specs, distances, etc,. being equal (which they actually are not) the one factor beyond your control is transmission rates, packet routes, dropped packets etc.

To get a sense of that run "tracert 8.8.8.8" (without quotes) via the Command Prompt.

You can also target other websites by changing 8.8.8.8 (Google) to the website's IP address. Some sites use multiple addresses.

Once beyond the 2nd or maybe 3rd hop there is little that you can do to improve things.

it just seems weird cause if this was happening with just one online game, i could understand, but every single competitive online game i own does this, for this to be happening over every single game, i feel it have to be something on my end, also i did the trace you suggested and i was getting anywhere from 15 to 20 ms

 

[hiro928]

You need to test more than just your internet speed and ping separately. You need to check the ping while playing. It can vary according to what server you're on and how far away it is, and it's crucial to fast reaction time and accurate shots.

Most popular game browsers like Steam and many others have a feature where you can monitor the ping while playing. There are also many 3rd party apps that can do so, and some are free.

like i said to Ralston it just seems weird cause if this was happening with just one online game, i could understand, but every single competitive online game i own does this, for this to be happening over every single game, i feel it have to be something on my end

 

[Frag Maniac]

it just seems weird cause if this was happening with just one online game, i could understand, but every single competitive online game i own does this, for this to be happening over every single game, i feel it have to be something on my end, also i did the trace you suggested and i was getting anywhere from 15 to 20 ms

If the speed test tool you're using is offered by your ISP (many do now), it will only show best case scenario. The ping monitoring game browsers and 3rd party tools do is done between you and the server you're actually gaming on. You can also use a tool called Ping Plotter to see the actual route between your PC and the closest terminal. For that it is best to use a URL that is close to you and commonly known, until you find best case scenario (local news stations, local libraries, etc).

If the shape of the route zigzags a lot, it's not a good sign, you want it to be as straight as possible, but best case scenario is typically a single dogleg bend. In all likelihood though, if you are averaging an 8ms ping with your tests, the ping route is not likely the problem. It IS possible however that the test you're using uses a server that skews the results, so test with Ping Plotter and use the method I suggested.

Ping Plotter used to have a version that could be used free indefinitely. Now you can only use it 2 weeks for free, but that should be enough time to determine if you have a bad ISP route. There's not much you can do about a bad ISP ping route though, other than change ISPs and hope it improves.

https://www.pingplotter.com/products/free.html

It seems the try it for 14 days free is only the full version. They still have a free version that's included in the download bundle!

 

[sizzling]

A lot of gaming online becomes predicting what the opponent will do and reacting, it has to be instinctive and that comes with lots of practice.

Other things like latency are very important. What monitor are you using? Are you using V-Sync? What fps are you achieving?

 

[hiro928]

A lot of gaming online becomes predicting what the opponent will do and reacting, it has to be instinctive and that comes with lots of practice.

Other things like latency are very important. What monitor are you using? Are you using V-Sync? What fps are you achieving?

Samsung 4K monitor, yes on V-Sync and 60 FPS

 

[Frag Maniac]

Samsung 4K monitor, yes on V-Sync and 60 FPS

Exact model of monitor would give us a better idea if input lag is part of your problem.

 

[hiro928]

Exact model of monitor would give us a better idea if input lag is part of your problem.

Samsung LU28R550UQNXZA, also i ran Ping Plotter choosing Google as my test since there is a data center close by and here were my results

 

[Frag Maniac]

like i said to Ralston it just seems weird cause if this was happening with just one online game, i could understand, but every single competitive online game i own does this, for this to be happening over every single game, i feel it have to be something on my end

We'll know more when you do more thorough ping monitoring and detail what exact display you're using, which can vary a lot in input lag. It may also help to monitor your ping route with Ping Plotter. These are all simple things to do.

 

[hotaru.hino]

Online games deploy some form of lag compensation. This can be in the form of artificial delay on your end to rolling back what happened when you receive it and recalculating the final result. Some games may do lag compensation poorly and this is what you're seeing.

This is a good read on the topic: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...g-games-use-delay-based-and-rollback-netcode/

 

[Eximo]

Not finding any reviews that actually measure the input lag on that panel. My guess would be this is closer to a TV panel than a bespoke monitor design given the price, so it may have significant input lag. Really nice gaming monitors can get that down below 20ms, most TVs in game mode sit around the 40ms mark, and can be up to 100ms (1/10th of a second) Coupled with a 60hz refresh rate at 16.67ms per frame, you could be seeing as much as a 2/3 frame gap between when you see something, plus your reaction time, on top of your ping.

 

[hiro928]

Not finding any reviews that actually measure the input lag on that panel. My guess would be this is closer to a TV panel than a bespoke monitor design given the price, so it may have significant input lag. Really nice gaming monitors can get that down below 20ms, most TVs in game mode sit around the 40ms mark, and can be up to 100ms (1/10th of a second) Coupled with a 60hz refresh rate at 16.67ms per frame, you could be seeing as much as a 2/3 frame gap between when you see something, plus your reaction time, on top of your ping.

are there any programs you can recommend that would judge the input lag?

 

[hiro928]

We'll know more when you do more thorough ping monitoring and detail what exact display you're using, which can vary a lot in input lag. It may also help to monitor your ping route with Ping Plotter. These are all simple things to do.

i let ping plotter run for a bit longer, this is what i ended up with here

 

[sizzling]

Samsung 4K monitor, yes on V-Sync and 60 FPS

Turn off v-sync, it adds noticeable input lag.

 

[Eximo]

are there any programs you can recommend that would judge the input lag?

No generally requires external hardware. If your phone/camera has a high speed mode that might help you get close to real value. Basically need to record your mouse click and how long it takes the monitor to show the result, that is input lag. But to do it milliseconds you'll need 1000FPS recording. 120 FPS recording can get you down to 8.33 ms intervals.

 

[drivinfast247]

this happens for a plethora of games, not just a few, but to take a few games as example, in WWE2K22 it seems like my opponents reverse every one of my moves without fail, but the button prompt for me to do a reversal is on screen for less than a second, then in games like Rainbow Six Siege, it seems like the only time i can get a kill is if the other guy doesn't see me, if he sees me, it seems like it's again, only for half a second, then i'm dead, i don't understand why this is? i don't think it's my internet, i've run speed tests and i'm getting about 450 Mbps down and 25 up with a ping of about 8 ms, what could be the issue?

Maybe the people you're playing against are better than you.

Keep playing and you'll get better.

 

[Rexer]

You need to test more than just your internet speed and ping separately. You need to check the ping while playing. It can vary according to what server you're on and how far away it is, and it's crucial to fast reaction time and accurate shots.

Most popular game browsers like Steam and many others have a feature where you can monitor the ping while playing. There are also many 3rd party apps that can do so, and some are free.

I live out in Polson Montana. Sure, we get internet out here. Rarely if ever are the graphs green or two digits. If I'm not well liked or too far away, I get kicked out of the game. I never win cowboy draws. In fps games, I plan my shot to shoot ahead of my victim, as fast as I see them. But that's the nature living too far away from game servers. Lol. Sometimes the challenge is fun.. . sometimes not. This one, ya gotta roll with the punches.

 

[Frag Maniac]

i let ping plotter run for a bit longer, this is what i ended up with here

Still doesn't look very good, especially the average. I just ran Google.com in Ping Plotter, which is definitely not usually the best case scenario URL, and I averaged mostly under 10ms. That was also with a pretty zigzaggy ping route.

I suggest trying other local URLs. Keep in mind you don't just want them to be nearby, but also not excessively high in traffic. Like I said, the main branch of my local public library was one of the best for me.

I also don't recall you coming back with any ping results WHILE gaming, which is perhaps most important. Until we see data like that, we won't know exactly what the problem is. So definitely check on that.

Also, we don't even know where you're located. If you're worried about detailing what city, at least tell us if it's a populated city area, or rural. Otherwise we have no way of knowing if traffic could be part of the problem.

As for your display, I've read a few reviews, one from a review site claiming it has 12ms input lag, one from a gamer saying it's mediocre at best and for casual gaming, and a YouTube reviewer whom said Apex plays fine on it but PUBG was input laggy. I have a 32" Panasonic IPS panel TV, and in Game Mode, at best I get about 33ms input lag, which is common with IPS panels. Definitely MAKE SURE you're in Game Mode though, as Game Mode uses little if any video processing, otherwise it will likely be MUCH higher.

What was said about anticipation and reaction times varying a lot is also true. At 64, I've long since lost the reflexes and dexterity needed for online play, and I know first hand it's common that many online gamers are very fast, especially in the more popular games. So that definitely could be part of the problem, if not most of it. Age usually does matter, but not everyone that's young is gifted with great reflexes and dexterity. It can be honed though, just make sure to take care of your eyes, wearing blue blocker glasses can help.

The odd thing about input lag in displays, the ones that are very low in it are either very cheap (TN), or very expensive (OLED). I'm personally waiting for OLED prices to drop, It's encouraging that they are now made in 42", but many things like COVID are still keeping prices high. Eventually they'll drop under $1000, and I hope when that happens, 4K TV broadcasts will be a thing too. However what one of the local TV station techs told me about that recently doesn't sound too encouraging.