Question Why is my pc doing this?

[muhtasimfaiyaz]

I have been experiencing persistent issues with my PC that seem to be related to power supply and UPS overload. Here’s a detailed account of the problem:

The issue began while I was playing sons of the forest on max settings. After approximately 4-5 hours of gameplay, my UPS emitted a continuous sound, which I later realized indicated overloading.
Shortly after the sound began, my PC started restarting every 20-30 minutes until it eventually shut down. Despite setting the HDD turn-off option to 0 in power plan settings, the problem persisted.
I left the PC off for about an hour. When attempting to power it on again, it did not start. However, the next morning, the PC powered on successfully and ran normally for 2-3 days under minimal load, with no further issues from the UPS.

Recent Incident: While playing stray on max settings, the UPS once again beeping. After the noise started, I checked the temperature, usage, and power draw of the CPU and GPU, all of which were within normal ranges. Despite this, the PC did not turn on after shutting it down. I verified that all connections were secure.

Then I tried plugging the PC directly and it still did not turn on. So I let it be and tried turning it on again after 3/4 hours and my pc turned on both with/ without ups. Now after shutting it down, it doesn't turn on immediately, rather after 1/2 hours and sometimes it just doesn't.

note : the mobo's RGB lighting and the wired keyboard received power throughout this period, both today and the the day of the first incident. The reason I mentioned the games is that my PC didn't react this way the other times I played them. I did play valorant in between the incidents and it ran just fine.

what could be the issue and how should I attempt to fix it?

System Specifications:
- r5 5600
- rx 6700 XT
-16 GB 3200 MHz
- ASUS Strix B450-F
- MSI 650AGF 80+ Gold
- 2K 144Hz
- 1200VA ups

 

[Aeacus]

1200VA ups

UPS make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the UPS is, and was the UPS bought new or used/refurbished?

 

[muhtasimfaiyaz]

UPS make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the UPS is, and was the UPS bought new or used/refurbished?

this is the model i believe, purchased it brand new about 4 years ago. If the issue is with my ups, why isn't my pc turning on even with direct power from the wall socket?
im so confused what to change rn :'0

 

[Aeacus]

this is the model i believe

Holy hell.... square wave output.

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

As of what has happened;
My guess, your square wave output UPS has damaged your PSU, since it outputs the worst/dirtiest quality of electricity, damaging your (otherwise decent) PSU. Hence why PC has trouble powering on, even when bypassing UPS and plugging it directly to the mains.

Fixes:
Only fix is component replacement. Meaning new, good quality PSU. And if you don't want to kill new PSU as well, then new, true/pure sine wave (e.g with line-interactive topology) UPS as well.

Power delivery is a serious business and you can not cheap out on said hardware. That, besides PSU, also includes UPS.
E.g you didn't cheap out on PSU and got yourself relatively decent unit (it does have issues, like low hold-up time and very poor EMI filtering but otherwise has tight voltage regulation and decent ripple). So, my question is: Why you didn't cheap out on PSU? E.g why not get Apevia Prestige?
And 2nd question too: Why you DID cheap out on UPS?


Good PSUs to go for, are: Seasonic Focus/Vertex/PRIME, Corsair RMx/RMi/HXi/AXi, Super Flower Leadex Gold/Platinum/Titanium.
(3x PCs i have, are also powered by Seasonic. I have 2x PRIME TX-650 units and 1x Focus PX-550 unit. Full specs with pics in my sig.)


As far as UPS goes;
When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your current (and probably new PSU too) is 650W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. Depending on the monitor size, they use between 23W to 52W. For more accurate power consumption, i need to know your monitor make and model so i can look up it's power consumption. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Good UPS brands to go for are CyberPower, TrippLite and APC. While there are other UPS brands as well, those three are the best out there.
Note: The more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.

For your build, ~1200VA/750W UPS would do just fine.
E.g CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD (1350VA/880W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive, AVR),
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1350PFCLCD-Sinewave-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19M

This, CP1350PFCLCD, is actually the very same UPS i'm planning to buy, to replace my two CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive, AVR) UPSes out, since mine are already 6 years old. CP1350PFCLCD is actually the successor of CP1300EPFCLCD.

 

[muhtasimfaiyaz]

Holy hell.... square wave output.

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

As of what has happened;
My guess, your square wave output UPS has damaged your PSU, since it outputs the worst/dirtiest quality of electricity, damaging your (otherwise decent) PSU. Hence why PC has trouble powering on, even when bypassing UPS and plugging it directly to the mains.

Fixes:
Only fix is component replacement. Meaning new, good quality PSU. And if you don't want to kill new PSU as well, then new, true/pure sine wave (e.g with line-interactive topology) UPS as well.

Power delivery is a serious business and you can not cheap out on said hardware. That, besides PSU, also includes UPS.
E.g you didn't cheap out on PSU and got yourself relatively decent unit (it does have issues, like low hold-up time and very poor EMI filtering but otherwise has tight voltage regulation and decent ripple). So, my question is: Why you didn't cheap out on PSU? E.g why not get Apevia Prestige?
And 2nd question too: Why you DID cheap out on UPS?


Good PSUs to go for, are: Seasonic Focus/Vertex/PRIME, Corsair RMx/RMi/HXi/AXi, Super Flower Leadex Gold/Platinum/Titanium.
(3x PCs i have, are also powered by Seasonic. I have 2x PRIME TX-650 units and 1x Focus PX-550 unit. Full specs with pics in my sig.)


As far as UPS goes;
When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your current (and probably new PSU too) is 650W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. Depending on the monitor size, they use between 23W to 52W. For more accurate power consumption, i need to know your monitor make and model so i can look up it's power consumption. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Good UPS brands to go for are CyberPower, TrippLite and APC. While there are other UPS brands as well, those three are the best out there.
Note: The more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.

For your build, ~1200VA/750W UPS would do just fine.
E.g CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD (1350VA/880W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive, AVR),
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1350PFCLCD-Sinewave-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19M

This, CP1350PFCLCD, is actually the very same UPS i'm planning to buy, to replace my two CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive, AVR) UPSes out, since mine are already 6 years old. CP1350PFCLCD is actually the successor of CP1300EPFCLCD.

If there was an award for detailed explanations, I'd have given it to you already. Thanks man🫡
I still have 7 years warranty left for my psu, will try to claim that. However if that goes south, the psus you mentioned aren't available in my region, so can I follow A tier products according to this ?
Also I'll look out for active PFCs, as the best ups of 1200VA that I could find was of power guard and apollo, both of which are of simulated sine wave :'0