Why no Universal socket?

[whymeeeee97]

Is their any specific reason why each generation changes their socket? GPU are universal using the pci slot so why can't chip sockets be universal, or at least make it possible to remove the socket and replace it, just don't seem right to pay around 70-100 dollars to get a new motherboard.

 

[Ecky]

Lots of reasons. Haswell had an integrated voltage regulator, whereas Skylake relies on the motherboard for that. The power delivery systems are fundamentally different. Also, Skylake supports DDR4 while Haswell does not, and this requires different pins.

Although it might be possible to have a socket with plenty of extra pins to allow for these sorts of changes, I suspect it would be more of a mess to have different CPUs and chipsets that are incompatible with each other sharing a socket.

 

[amtseung]

GPU's don't technically have universal sockets. They chose to use them that way, but many devices that aren't Windows-based desktops don't use PCIe slots (Mac pro, anyone?).

CPU's don't have universal slots because then no one would make any money. The technology of the socket changes out of necessity for communication with the CPU.

It's like asking why we don't have a universal car. What if I don't want a 1967 VW bug? What if I want a Prius, or a Mercedes W211 E320 Bluetec stationwagon, or a friggin Porsche 918?

 

[Chugalug_]

^
Great explanation by Ecky.
Also as the architecture changes, the socket has to change to match the CPU's pin layout in order to actually be compatible.
Power delivery, memory compatibility standards and other factors change as technology evolves, therefore so must the socket and motherboard.

 

[Martell1977]

As an April Fool's joke, MSI made an advertisement about a "modular" motherboard. The funny part is, it was a very interesting and compelling prospect. Imagine being able to upgrade from Haswell to Skylake just by changing the CPU socket module or the CPU and RAM modules, while not having to replace the expansion slots. Of course this would change everything and they would likely make less money overall.

Just thought I mention it as Ecky answered your question.

 

[Gam3r01]

Didnt ASUS say they were trying to make that as well about a month later?
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-project-avalon-modular-motherboard,31928.html

 

[Martell1977]

Didnt ASUS say they were trying to make that as well about a month later?
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-project-avalon-modular-motherboard,31928.html

I apparently missed that article. It's a big step, but not yet as modular as what MSI had talked about. There are a lot of limitations to overcome, especially the fact that Intel limits PCIe lanes.

 

[Gam3r01]

It would be cool to see, but I dont expect myself to ever use a modular motherboard or a universal CPU socket.

 

[synphul]

They used to back in the socket 7 days. The socket 7 and super socket 7's were some of if not the most compatible sockets and people were able to use amd k2's, k3's, intel pentium's, cyrix and a few others. They were also backward compatible with socket 5 cpu's. Shortly after that intel went with slot 1/2 and amd went with slot A before going back to sockets and they've been separate ever since.

Within the same company it depends on their overall design. Cpu's change as time goes on, some try to integrate the voltage regulator and some leave it on the board, some integrate the memory controller and some leave it on the board. Integration of things is sometimes a means to advance, get certain aspects physically closer to the cpu cores and cache to reduce latency between them and improve an area of performance.

Intel cpu's have been essentially apu's since they went to the core i series and since then the integrated gpu has also made improvements and changed over time. As things change and progress they likely need to change the pin layout in order to make them function properly and it would be extremely difficult. Just as edo, ddr, ddr2, ddr3 and ddr4 ram all use different physical slots as their technology changed, power requirements changed etc.

When it comes to amd's am3+ they have a wider variety of cpu's that fit the same socket. They also defer graphics to the motherboard similar to the old design intel used to use with p4's and earlier cpu's where the basic gpu is on the motherboard rather than inside the cpu. Their apu's like the a6/a8/a10 on the other hand use the fm2+ socket which is configured differently necessitating a different socket and pin layout.

There's not really a need to upgrade cpu's (and therefor motherboards) all that often. Even though every 2 or 3 cpu releases (intel) seem to require a new board/socket it's not like it's needed every year or other year. Many times intel cpu's remain competitive and useful for 3, 4, 5yrs. If someone chooses a lower end cpu like a pentium g or i3 and feels the need for an upgrade there are i5's and i7's to consider. If already using an i5/i7 it's more likely that it will remain useful for 4-5yrs or better and by then it's probably time for a new motherboard anyway to take advantage of 5yrs or so worth of tech advancements.

The last time I upgraded to a 4th gen i5 and ddr3 ram. My previous board had older pcie slots, only 1 pcie x16 (pcie 2.0), only 1 rj45 jack, a handful of sata2 headers, an ide header, a floppy header, a handful of usb2.0 and 1.1 ports etc. If I'd been able to keep it and just replace the socket I'd still be using ddr2 ram, have little to no use for the ide or floppy headers, wouldn't have usb 3.0, m.2 support, the ability to run sli with two pcie 3.0 x16/x8 slots and a host of other features like dual rj45, improved audio codecs. I wouldn't be able to use the integrated video from the cpu since the board wasn't designed for that.

Basically by the time a new cpu becomes necessary it's time for a new motherboard and current tech features. The other upside is component replacement and availability. If I were still using ddr2 and a ram stick went bad (it's rare but it happens) I'd be trying to source harder to find and more expensive ram. Just browsing what's available on pcpartpicker, to grab an 8gb ddr2-800 ram kit would run between $135-200. If ddr3 or ddr4 ram fails that same 8gb ram kit runs between $35-40 and it's readily available. Saving money by hanging onto an older board indefinitely would end up costing more in other ways.

 

[Martell1977]

A modular motherboard has many possibilities, like saving money on the initial build. Say I only have the money for the essentials (CPU, RAM, GPU, PSU, MB and case), but the MB only has a single PCIe X16 3.0 slot and later I want to run Crossfire/SLI, I could just buy a spacer and PCIe slot module and conenct it in. Thus adding the slots I would need, but couldn't afford before. Same for RAM, can only afford 2 slots now, but later find I need want more but need 4 slots. I would just buy the 4 slot module later with the additional RAM.

Since PCIe standards don't get updated as fast as CPU sockets, it could save quite a bit by not having to replace certain parts for a while. PCIe 3.0 has been around for more than a few generations of CPU's. RAM and storage connections are the same situation(however, there are a lot of changed in storage connections lately, but I expect DDR4 to last at least several generations before DDR5 or something replaces it.).

 

[synphul]

I don't see a socketed pick your own parts board working very well. It wouldn't save much money since the traces already have to be baked into the board for all the various connections, dram, pcie, sata etc. Those initial traces are going to dictate how much of what you can add, if there's only enough traces for a single pcie slot you can't just slap another on there for sli/crossfire. It would have to be planned for and baked in from the start.

Doubtful those plastic pieces that make the actual socket of the various slots costs much at all. Not when you consider the copper in the traces, the gold plating, the laminating of the pcb itself with multiple layers, the various i/o on the back, the audio chip, the pch.

Assuming they left 'blanks' where pcie slots would exist on a current board. They would have to have all the traces ready to go and then what, some sort of hole to place an addon socket into? How would it fasten to the motherboard? It would have to line up with all the traces on the board and carry those connections perfectly to the pins that would be on the pcie socket. Or would there be a 'quick connect' type socket to plug a pcie slot into - and then plug the pcie card (gpu, ssd etc) into that? If they're going to put any sort of socket there why not just put the pcie slot in there that fits there in the first place, why have to plug something in just to plug something else into that.

Every time there's a socket/plug of some sort, there's power loss and potential signal loss. Not to mention traces have to match exactly for it to work properly. Consider ram and the difference in the pinout between ddr3 and ddr4. The same arrangement on the contacts along the edge of the ram meet up exactly with that corresponding layout in the ram slot which is tied to the traces which go to the cpu.

There's no way to just plop a ddr3 layout onto ddr4 trace arrangements, it would be like trying to plug an 8pin pcie power connector to the 4+4 cpu power socket. Even if the plastic wasn't keyed differently, assuming they fit together the wiring isn't in the same place. You'd have power to ground, negative to postive, all kinds of issues. Meaning once the traces are baked into the board to where the ram goes, it's only going to work with ddr3 or ddr4 so may as well include the corresponding receptacle.

A similar problem occurs with cpu's and all their pin arrangements. They're associated with very specific things, if a 6th gen cpu won't line up properly with every pin and land matching between socket and cpu when dropping it into a 4th gen socket, there's no way a 6th gen socket would be able to marry up with a board that has traces meant for the 4th gen. Motherboards already are modular, you get the board and add the components you need. Need a gpu? Add one. Need additional sata ports? Add an adapter card. Need only one stick of ram, 2 sticks, 4? Add as you see fit.

That doesn't even begin to tackle the issue of user error and losing things. Many people look for assistance when they've lost their alternate mounting backplates for cpu coolers or lost their extra cables that came with their modular psu. If it's stuck to the board it's one less thing for people to lose or install improperly.

Comparing a few similar motherboards for 6th gen intel, the z170 chipset. Comparing the asus z170-a, z170-p, z170-k and z170-e, some have additional audio ports. Some have 6 audio jacks, 5 jacks, 3 jacks. Different audio codecs. Different amount of usb3.0 type A, type C. Some have dvi-d and hdmi, others have those plus display port, another has dvi-d, dsub, display port and hdmi. Some have just one ps/2 port while others have 2. Some have 3 fan headers, 4 or 6. 4 sata connectors or 6. Those are only some of the differences and yet the price spread between those 4 boards is only $30. There just isn't a huge cost savings there.

Another example would be the asus b150m-a and b150m-k. One has 2 ram slots, the other has 4. The cost difference between them is $3 and the one with 4 slots is actually the cheaper board. In order to have a one size fits all board capable of being upgraded by the end user it would have to be their flagship board to begin with. Otherwise people wouldn't be able to progress from the most bare bones all the way up to the premium full featured board. That would make the base platform likely more expensive than a basic board costs now fully complete and ready to use.

 

[Chugalug_]

Whew, these essays!

 

[maxwellmelon]

also like said above socket 7 was compatible between many brands. but intel got there patients in line to help put an end to it. its just like there was an amd 486 and intel 486. the courts ruled that cpu numbers could not be protected. that is why intel went to names "Pentium" could be copyrighted/patented to where no one else could use it.

also the electronic internals of the cpu are actually very different between an intel and amd cpu even though they can run the same code and therefore require different function pins. and it would actually be a waste to design a socket with all the signal pins when a cpu might not use half of them which takes up space.

 

[Martell1977]

@synphul - There would have to be some new standards established to make these things posisble...which is why it's likely never to happen.

The CPU module would have to include a ceratin number of lanes and connections, which would make it the most expensive part, the rest you have to ahve standardized connections to use those lanes as needed. Like a PCIe slot, it wouldn't be a empty blank space necessarily, it could be designed to be an module/card that connected and "clipped" (for lack of a better word) onto the lend of the board, below the first PCIe slot.

For something like changing RAM from DDR3 to DDR4, that wouldn't be possible without changing the CPU module as the CPU has to support the change. Changing the type of RAM would be as easy as changing the number of RAM slots. But again, this is where certain standards would have to come in and Intel/AMD would have to be major players in the design.

It wouldn't be easy and the engineering would be a huge undertaking, but the possibilities are great. Want to upgrade from Haswell to Skylake and DDR4? Just replace the CPU and RAM modules and continue using the rest (PCIe, sound, USB, SATA, etc.). So long as support for something like PCIe3 remains, as it has for a while now, there would be no need to replace and pay for the entire board. When PCIe 4 comes out, it would require a much bigger upgrade, but once done the PCIe4 module would likely be around a while until PCIe5 came out and was widely adopted.

There would have to be upgrade ability levels, the lowest end probably wouldn't benefit from this much, but the upper end boards likely would.