Given that DDR4-3200 is being used by both users of INTEL and Threadripper systems and that the same RAM modules can be used in both platforms, why for some companies, they have one product line especially for Threadripper systems? Can't those memory modules be used in INTEL systems as well?
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Why some companies have a product line for Threadripper systems even the same DDR4-3200 modules can be used in INTEL system?
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FD2Raptor
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Yes. The actual answer is probably both in optimization and compatibility testing.
Since for example a quirk of the memory controller of Intel Skylake/Kabylake/Coffeelake CPU is that it performs better with 4 ranks of memory bank, which is achievable by 2x dual rank DIMMs or 4x single rank DIMMs; i.e. all else being equal, a two DIMMs 3200 CL15 kit dual rank kit will have greater memory bandwidth (reads: better performance) compare to a two DIMMs 3200 CL15 single rank kit on these Intel CPU.
Since for example a quirk of the memory controller of Intel Skylake/Kabylake/Coffeelake CPU is that it performs better with 4 ranks of memory bank, which is achievable by 2x dual rank DIMMs or 4x single rank DIMMs; i.e. all else being equal, a two DIMMs 3200 CL15 kit dual rank kit will have greater memory bandwidth (reads: better performance) compare to a two DIMMs 3200 CL15 single rank kit on these Intel CPU.
So in reality they are the same? In other words, even if I am not sure if I will switch between INTEL and Threadripper platforms within the next four years, I just buy any DDR4-3200 modules and they will be compatible? Do I have to worry about latency? Sometimes they have options of Dual Channel Kit, Quad Channel Kit and Dual/Quad Channel Kit. If I choose Dual Channel in case I use Intel 8700K now, will there be performance drop or compatibility issue if I use the same RAM modules when I upgrade to Quad Channel systems (INTEL or Threadripper)? Alternatively, if I buy Quad Channel modules for future proof, what will happen if I put them in a dual channel 8700K system now?
- Oct 6, 2014
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That is not really true. The memory controller is built into the intel chips and most run better in dual channel mode using 2 sticks and putting less stress on the controller.
The higher end chips that use quad channel boards get better performance using 4 sticks.
FD2Raptor
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In most case, there should be no issue switching between Intel and AMD platforms with regards to memory compatibility.
The DIMM itself play a really minor part when you're going to change the entire platform so there's no real appreciable difference specifically to just the DIMM itself.
If you buy a Quad channel kit and put them into a Dual channel platform then it'll just running as a dual channel with two DIMMs per channel. The single rank/dual rank bandwidth difference does apply since the 8700k is Coffeelake, so if the Dual-Channel kit is single rank DIMM, there'll be increased memory bandwidth going with 4 DIMMs; if the Dual-channel kit is dual-ranked then there'll be no difference between 2 DIMMs and 4 DIMMs on Coffeelake. Not enough testing so far on AMD platform to tell about its quirks, if any is present.
@Zerk: Seriously why are you even trying to argue against the numbers here:
The single rank Ripjaws V runs 3200 @ CL15 vs the Team Dark runs 3200 @ CL16.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/g.skill-ripjaws-v-ddr4-3200-c16-16gb-dual-channel-kit,5483-2.html
- Oct 6, 2014
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FD2Raptor :
In most case, there should be no issue switching between Intel and AMD platforms with regards to memory compatibility.
The DIMM itself play a really minor part when you're going to change the entire platform so there's no real appreciable difference specifically to just the DIMM itself.
If you buy a Quad channel kit and put them into a Dual channel platform then it'll just running as a dual channel with two DIMMs per channel. The single rank/dual rank bandwidth difference does apply since the 8700k is Coffeelake, so if the Dual-Channel kit is single rank DIMM, there'll be increased memory bandwidth going with 4 DIMMs; if the Dual-channel kit is dual-ranked then there'll be no difference between 2 DIMMs and 4 DIMMs on Coffeelake. Not enough testing so far on AMD platform to tell about its quirks, if any is present.
@Zerk: Seriously why are you even trying to argue against the numbers here:
The single rank Ripjaws V runs 3200 @ CL15 vs the Team Dark runs 3200 @ CL16.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/g.skill-ripjaws-v-ddr4-3200-c16-16gb-dual-channel-kit,5483-2.html
I think you need to do some research on single and dual rank memory.
It's the stick of memory itself and has nothing to do with 2 sticks or 4 sticks.
Your link means nothing about what we said.
FD2Raptor
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You're only digging a deeper hole for yourself at this point:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gskill-trident-z-rgb-32gb-ddr4-3600,5076-2.html
Two TridentZ Quad Kit 3200 CL14/15 roughly in the same ball park as the Team Dark kit 3200 CL16 settings while the Xtreem single rank kit falter.
Some minor differences from platform update from the Z170 to the more current platform, Z270 in the TridentZ review vs Z370 on the RipjawsV reviews.
- Aug 24, 2012
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Gentlemen, you've both been here long enough to know better. Just answer the question asked and minimize the infighting.
- Dec 26, 2012
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It's a compatability thing. When Ryzen first dropped, good luck getting anything to OC, or even sometimes work other that Samsung B-die, basically the high speed g-skill RipJaws V c14 and Trident-Z c14, FlareX and Patriot elite. Could they be used on Intel? Absolutely, but for the most part anything above 2666 is next to useless spending. Not enough gains. So a 3600/4000 32/64Gb kit is going to be aimed specifically at threadrippers, especially if it's a full quad kit and not 2x dual channel set.
Yes there's a ram bios difference between a full quad and 2x duals, you can use duals on anything but 2x duals does not equal the bandwidth of 1x quad and a quad won't work right on a non TR4/Xxx board.
So there are ram differences, and some ram is going to be pushed more towards one or the other, but the enthusiast class boards can get a little more specific.
Yes there's a ram bios difference between a full quad and 2x duals, you can use duals on anything but 2x duals does not equal the bandwidth of 1x quad and a quad won't work right on a non TR4/Xxx board.
So there are ram differences, and some ram is going to be pushed more towards one or the other, but the enthusiast class boards can get a little more specific.
- Dec 26, 2012
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True quad channel ram uses slightly different controls to just dual channel ram because it's got to deal with all 4 ram sticks simultaneously as 1 unit with double the bandwidth of 4x (2x kits) of dual channel. So even though theres 4 slots on most mobo's cpu/mobo restrictions have a hard time even accepting quad channel ram, but run just fine with 2kits of dual channel. The TR4/Xxx can run single/dual or quad with no restrictions but run far better with at least 4 slots populated.
With the size of ddr4 dual channel bandwidth, there's not much (if any) real advantage to true quad channel as very little can actually fill dual, so performance is basically the same for either 2x2 or 1x4. However, there is one slight difference. Because it's very hard to get 4x rams factory certified, you'll pay through the nose for it. And, if 1x stick fails, you'll pretty much have to replace all 4 sticks, you'd need to find 1x quad channel stick that'd work. With dual channel, you can far easier replace 1 or 2x sticks without much issue as almost all ram nowadays is dual channel capable.
Absolutely yes. Decide first, AMD or Intel. Then decide on needs, absolutely must haves and stuff you can live without. Knowing both those, you can then determine the cpu. Knowing the cpu + n/mh/clw will aim you at mobo's. After that comes everything else.
With the size of ddr4 dual channel bandwidth, there's not much (if any) real advantage to true quad channel as very little can actually fill dual, so performance is basically the same for either 2x2 or 1x4. However, there is one slight difference. Because it's very hard to get 4x rams factory certified, you'll pay through the nose for it. And, if 1x stick fails, you'll pretty much have to replace all 4 sticks, you'd need to find 1x quad channel stick that'd work. With dual channel, you can far easier replace 1 or 2x sticks without much issue as almost all ram nowadays is dual channel capable.
Absolutely yes. Decide first, AMD or Intel. Then decide on needs, absolutely must haves and stuff you can live without. Knowing both those, you can then determine the cpu. Knowing the cpu + n/mh/clw will aim you at mobo's. After that comes everything else.
Hello Karadjgne, in case of going for the Intel i9-7900X and the WS X299 SAGE motherboard, what RAM modules do you recommend? I know I will need at least 32GB at the beginning. May need to upgrade to 64GB later. Don't know if I will need 128GB. If I buy 32GB (16GBx2) now, do I have to worry about buying another 32GB with possible "different bins" later? What about latency?
It seems that most people use G.Skill Ripjaws, Triden Z RGB, Corsair Ballastic, Vengenance, Dominator Platinum, etc. Different people use different speeds. In the case of G. Skill Triden Z, most use DDR4-3200 RGB version. Strangly speaking, the manual does not list 3200 but 2400, 2666, 3600 and others.
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/Socket2066/WS_X299_SAGE/Manual/E14028_WS_X299_SAGE_UM_V2_WEB.pdf?_ga=2.259423439.435600446.1523725088-932830197.1519525979
It seems that most people use G.Skill Ripjaws, Triden Z RGB, Corsair Ballastic, Vengenance, Dominator Platinum, etc. Different people use different speeds. In the case of G. Skill Triden Z, most use DDR4-3200 RGB version. Strangly speaking, the manual does not list 3200 but 2400, 2666, 3600 and others.
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/Socket2066/WS_X299_SAGE/Manual/E14028_WS_X299_SAGE_UM_V2_WEB.pdf?_ga=2.259423439.435600446.1523725088-932830197.1519525979
- Dec 26, 2012
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With x299 you'll find you'd be better off if just using 2 kits of 16x2 to start with. The enthusiast class stuff likes at least half it's ram slots filled, 4.
So go with 3600. Although you might need some little OC to get that stable.
The popularity of the Trident-Z/RipJaws V is 2-fold. The Cas 14/15 uses Samsung B-die, which for a time was basically the only ram OEM that would OC to 3200 on the Ryzen boards, Crucial would generally get to 2933 and SkHynix was lucky to work at all. The RipJaws was also amongst the cheapest 3200 available. The Trident-Z has full RGB unlike many that are single led coloring and looks pretty cool. And still wasn't as expensive as some other plain sticks. So between the price/aesthetics, performance and ability, G-skill cleaned house at 3200.
The Corsair lpx is now popular again since bug fixes and microcode updates have basically cured the SkHynix issues.
So go with 3600. Although you might need some little OC to get that stable.
The popularity of the Trident-Z/RipJaws V is 2-fold. The Cas 14/15 uses Samsung B-die, which for a time was basically the only ram OEM that would OC to 3200 on the Ryzen boards, Crucial would generally get to 2933 and SkHynix was lucky to work at all. The RipJaws was also amongst the cheapest 3200 available. The Trident-Z has full RGB unlike many that are single led coloring and looks pretty cool. And still wasn't as expensive as some other plain sticks. So between the price/aesthetics, performance and ability, G-skill cleaned house at 3200.
The Corsair lpx is now popular again since bug fixes and microcode updates have basically cured the SkHynix issues.
Thanks. If I go for the 3600 that might need some little OC, how to do it? 10 years ago, I had a ASUS motherboard, I just pressed a virtual button in the ASUS control button on screen and it automatically did the OC. Not sure about overclocking if I run Linux.
Getting two kits of 16x2 is to enable quad channels performance. Do I have to worry if they are from the same bin if I buy one 16x2 kit first?
As for the Trident-Z with RGB, what latency and CL should I choose if I go for DDR4-3600? Should I choose Dual, Quad or Dual/Quad version? Will I be able to use the same RAM modules if I switch to Threadripper or upgrade to another Intel platform in less than 5 years? Don't know if those motherboards will be compatible with 3600 speed.
Getting two kits of 16x2 is to enable quad channels performance. Do I have to worry if they are from the same bin if I buy one 16x2 kit first?
As for the Trident-Z with RGB, what latency and CL should I choose if I go for DDR4-3600? Should I choose Dual, Quad or Dual/Quad version? Will I be able to use the same RAM modules if I switch to Threadripper or upgrade to another Intel platform in less than 5 years? Don't know if those motherboards will be compatible with 3600 speed.
- Dec 26, 2012
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OC is done manually in the bios, do not use software or the fancy looking OC Genie button. They tend to have adverse affects since they mess with the BCLK (buss clock) which affects everything from the ram to ssd transmission to pcie.
Unless you can get consecutive serial numbered ram (almost impossible) the chances of 2 kits at the same store, on the same shelf, next to each other, being from the same batch are remote at best, which is why it's always advisable to buy the full set of ram you want in 1 kit. That's factory tested to work. 2x kits is pot luck, but with 8 slots, unless you really want to spend over the top cash for a full 8 stick kit, you'll be buying at least 2x kits anyways. All you'll need to decide is gamble on quad channel or 4x sticks of dual channel.
Nobody has a clue what'll happen in 5 years from now. 5 years ago ppl were begging AMD for something even slightly better than the FX, little knowing a 40% IPC increase was coming with Ryzen. 5 years ago, ppl resisted i7's as they cost too much and were useless for gaming, i5's were cheaper and did the same job. Not so today. So it's all supposition as to what will be or what could be in the future.
Unless you can get consecutive serial numbered ram (almost impossible) the chances of 2 kits at the same store, on the same shelf, next to each other, being from the same batch are remote at best, which is why it's always advisable to buy the full set of ram you want in 1 kit. That's factory tested to work. 2x kits is pot luck, but with 8 slots, unless you really want to spend over the top cash for a full 8 stick kit, you'll be buying at least 2x kits anyways. All you'll need to decide is gamble on quad channel or 4x sticks of dual channel.
Nobody has a clue what'll happen in 5 years from now. 5 years ago ppl were begging AMD for something even slightly better than the FX, little knowing a 40% IPC increase was coming with Ryzen. 5 years ago, ppl resisted i7's as they cost too much and were useless for gaming, i5's were cheaper and did the same job. Not so today. So it's all supposition as to what will be or what could be in the future.
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