Question WiFi Bridge + AP Routers with Unique SSID and PASSWORD?

[UltraFusion]

I have a modem/router connected to the Internet, and I have several wifi apps (eg. Security cameras, air condition, smart door lock, etc) connected to the router. Everything works great and we can remotely access these apps to control the devices – except of course if the modem/router or Internet goes down!

So I working on setting up a back up system. I have a neighbor very nearby that will allow me to connect to his router, in the event that I occasionally lose my internet connection.

I thought the solution would be very easy – namely set up a wifi extender connected to the neighbor’s wifi – and configure the output of the extender such that it’s SSID and password would mirror the (SSID/Password) of my router – so that if my router went off line, I could turn on the extender and it would broadcast the ‘usual’ SSID and Password, to which the wifi apps would connect to.

BUT it seems that although you can configure the extender to use the right SSID it cannot be set up to use the correct password – ie. An extender must use the same password as the host router it is extending, so it seems that idea won’t work.

My next idea is to use an old wifi router in bridge mode, so first of all I’m wondering if the router bridge, connected wirelessly to the neighbor’s wifi can be set up to use my usual SSIS –AND- password (or will it work exactly like a wifi extender?)

If the router bridge can have a unique SSID and password then I believe that should solve my problem – but if not then my idea would be to set up the bridge router with it’s own SSID and with the same (as req’d) password as the neighbor’s router. And then (here’s where it gets interesting) – connect another wifi router using a LAN cable to a 2nd router and then configure this 2nd router as an Access Point , which I “think” could be set up to have a unique SSID and password – that is, the SSID and password I need to use so my devices/apps will find the internet and enable my devices/apps to work.

Any and all advice on this would be greatly welcome.

 

[kanewolf]

I have a modem/router connected to the Internet, and I have several wifi apps (eg. Security cameras, air condition, smart door lock, etc) connected to the router. Everything works great and we can remotely access these apps to control the devices – except of course if the modem/router or Internet goes down!

So I working on setting up a back up system. I have a neighbor very nearby that will allow me to connect to his router, in the event that I occasionally lose my internet connection.

I thought the solution would be very easy – namely set up a wifi extender connected to the neighbor’s wifi – and configure the output of the extender such that it’s SSID and password would mirror the (SSID/Password) of my router – so that if my router went off line, I could turn on the extender and it would broadcast the ‘usual’ SSID and Password, to which the wifi apps would connect to.

BUT it seems that although you can configure the extender to use the right SSID it cannot be set up to use the correct password – ie. An extender must use the same password as the host router it is extending, so it seems that idea won’t work.

My next idea is to use an old wifi router in bridge mode, so first of all I’m wondering if the router bridge, connected wirelessly to the neighbor’s wifi can be set up to use my usual SSIS –AND- password (or will it work exactly like a wifi extender?)

If the router bridge can have a unique SSID and password then I believe that should solve my problem – but if not then my idea would be to set up the bridge router with it’s own SSID and with the same (as req’d) password as the neighbor’s router. And then (here’s where it gets interesting) – connect another wifi router using a LAN cable to a 2nd router and then configure this 2nd router as an Access Point , which I “think” could be set up to have a unique SSID and password – that is, the SSID and password I need to use so my devices/apps will find the internet and enable my devices/apps to work.

Any and all advice on this would be greatly welcome.

If you have a device you can use in bridge mode, then just connect the ethernet cable from that device to the wan on your current router. when your primary ISP id down. You don't have to change anything as long as the IP subnet of the bridge device and your LAN IP subnet are different. You will be running in double nat, but for most things it won't matter.

 

[UltraFusion]

Many thanks kanewolf. I think I got it... I'll need to play around with this to get my head around it.
A quick bit of background - this set up is for my condo in Mexico and I use my wifi network there to remotely monitor the temp and humidity and manage the AC accordingly, along with keeping an eye on the security cameras - so if the wifi craps out, I'm dead in the water. (and it can take 1-2 weeks or more to get the network working again).

Looks like your good idea would get me back on the air if I lose the fiber feed (which happens from time to time!) (and I'd arrange for a neighbor to plug in the LAN cable from the bridge to the WAN on the home router) but what if in the worst case my home router dies?

(As I hope my above question hopefully tries to ask) Can I connect a LAN cable from the bridge router to a 2nd router config'd as an AP and then have that unit broadcast the proper SSID and password that would allow the apps to find the Internet?

Appreciate your excellent advice.

 

[kanewolf]

Many thanks kanewolf. I think I got it... I'll need to play around with this to get my head around it.
A quick bit of background - this set up is for my condo in Mexico and I use my wifi network there to remotely monitor the temp and humidity and manage the AC accordingly, along with keeping an eye on the security cameras - so if the wifi craps out, I'm dead in the water. (and it can take 1-2 weeks or more to get the network working again).

Looks like your good idea would get me back on the air if I lose the fiber feed (which happens from time to time!) (and I'd arrange for a neighbor to plug in the LAN cable from the bridge to the WAN on the home router) but what if in the worst case my home router dies?

(As I hope my above question hopefully tries to ask) Can I connect a LAN cable from the bridge router to a 2nd router config'd as an AP and then have that unit broadcast the proper SSID and password that would allow the apps to find the Internet?

Appreciate your excellent advice.

You didn't explicitly say this was an unattended situation. I might suggest a router that supports a cellular backup. Asus routers support that capability.
Get a prepaid cell phone that allows USB tethering or a USB modem and configure it as the backup WAN. Alternatively, you could get another router that supports dual WAN with failover and use the neighbor WIFI. I think a dual WAN router is the best answer. Don't try to setup two parallel strings. That just confuses everything.

 

[UltraFusion]

Maybe this 'diagram' will help -

Neighbor’s <<wifi>> Wifi Extender -–LAN CABLE-– Router AP
Router

SSID: ABCD SSID: EFGH SSID: WXYZ
PW: 1234 PW: 1234 PW: 5678

As mentioned my wifi smart apps are config’d on the home router to connect to SSID WXYZ and PW 5678

 

[UltraFusion]

Thanks again - Hmmm I'm not at all familiar with a router with dual WAN with failover so I'll need to look into that.

Will study up on that and will probably have a few more questions with you., so hope you don't mind.

I'm learning lots!

 

[UltraFusion]

As I hit the books on the dual WAN router with failover 2 quick questions jumps into my head.
1) How would I connect the new Dual router into my existing network.? FYI the ISP' provides a Huawei fiber modem/ router.
2) How would I connect the dual WAN router to my neighbor's wifi?

Thanks much.

 

[faalin]

While not cheap i would recommend getting a Ubiquiti Dream Machine.

1 you will be able to monitor your network from anywhere in the world.
2 you can plug your fiber in as primary ISP and the bridge to your neighbor as secondary, if your primary every goes down it would then fail over to the bridge. Once the primary comes back up it would then switch back to it.

The dream machine also offers a NVR option for cameras, there is an app for your phone and also a weblink to watch them anywhere.

We run a Dream Machine at work with Fiber and Coax, loosing the fiber is a seamless switch over coax and no one even notices. Once a month i will pull the fiber connection and have it do a fail over just to make sure everything is still working. Other then a slight drop in our upload/download you cant even tell when it happens.

 

[kanewolf]

As I hit the books on the dual WAN router with failover 2 quick questions jumps into my head.
1) How would I connect the new Dual router into my existing network.? FYI the ISP' provides a Huawei fiber modem/ router.
2) How would I connect the dual WAN router to my neighbor's wifi?

Thanks much.

#1 You would ask your ISP for recommendations on "bring your own router" configuration. There may be a way to configure the Huawei as a modem only.
#2 You would use the bridge device as the second WAN source, just as I suggested swapping the WAN cable. (I would recommend using cellular, even though it is not free, just because you are completely in control) .

 

[kanewolf]

While not cheap i would recommend getting a Ubiquiti Dream Machine.

1 you will be able to monitor your network from anywhere in the world.
2 you can plug your fiber in as primary ISP and the bridge to your neighbor as secondary, if your primary every goes down it would then fail over to the bridge. Once the primary comes back up it would then switch back to it.

The dream machine also offers a NVR option for cameras, there is an app for your phone and also a weblink to watch them anywhere.

We run a Dream Machine at work with Fiber and Coax, loosing the fiber is a seamless switch over coax and no one even notices. Once a month i will pull the fiber connection and have it do a fail over just to make sure everything is still working. Other then a slight drop in our upload/download you cant even tell when it happens.

A UniFI Dream Machine is an example of a dual WAN capable router. I have a UniFI network at my house. I don't know that I would recommend it for an unattended, first UniFI network, situation. I had a house 1500 miles from me to monitor, and I chose an Asus router with Merlin firmware. Routers like the AC68U are bullet proof when connected with a good quality UPS.

 

[UltraFusion]

Oh, and also - it w/b semi unattended. If the wifi goes out after a day or so I can get my neighbor to chk the modem/router, reboot it, chk and advise on the LEDs and maybe in the future fire up and connect some kind of back up network configuration.

 

[UltraFusion]

Many special thanks again. Am going to study up your suggestions. Cheers.

However I haven't given up on thinking about the idea of using a wifi extender (connected to my neighbor) , then LAN cabled to a AP router which would then broadcast the SSID and PW that the smart apps are looking for. A bit clumsy maybe but could work adequately to provide emergency back up wifi until I can arrange to get my network fixed.
And s/b pretty easy to test out using a couple of 'old' routers...

Best reagrds.

 

[faalin]

Many special thanks again. Am going to study up your suggestions. Cheers.

However I haven't given up on thinking about the idea of using a wifi extender (connected to my neighbor) , then LAN cabled to a AP router which would then broadcast the SSID and PW that the smart apps are looking for. A bit clumsy maybe but could work adequately to provide emergency back up wifi until I can arrange to get my network fixed.
And s/b pretty easy to test out using a couple of 'old' routers...

Best reagrds.

Once your devices are attached to an AP they aren't going to switch to another unless the original AP is turned off forcing the devices to search for a new AP to connect to.

If you run something with a dual wan port, say a dream machine, my primary comes in as 184.170.x.x and the secondary is 10.1.x.x but once it passes thru the dream machine to the lan side it only sees 192.168.x.x. So no matter which ISP you're using all the devices stay the same.

You also have to look at your network and theirs, if say your network is 10.1.10.x coming from your modem and their network is 192.168.1.x your devices will have a field day switching between the two.

Heaven forbid if you're both running the same IP range say 192.168.1.x and then your fail your devices over to his network you will probably have a lot of ip conflicts, and depending on those issues could take down the network. Unless you guys get together and tell your networks.... his can only use 1-100 and yours are only 101-254. Once you loose your primary ISP and fail over to his network all your devices will be out of his network range causing his DHCP to assign all your devices new IP address, then when you switch all your devices back to your network your DHCP will then assign your devices all new IPs inside of your range.

 

[UltraFusion]

Great advice (and my head is starting to spin !! LOL). I get what you are saying so I'm going to think about a cell phone approach - no problem using a used android phone and setting up a (data plan) subscription, and then I guess configuring the phones mobile hot spot to have the needed SSID and password. Then when my home network fails I would have my neighbor switch off the modem/router, start up the (plugged in) cell phone with the mobile hotspot configuration. Think this would work?

So that I don't use a ton of data just sitting on the cell data network, I'd love to be able to set it up such that the cell phone is on a timer schedule that would allow me to check the wifi apps maybe twice a day for an hr or so (eg. morning and evening) -- if that would be possible ??? Gotta scratch my head on that one...

 

[UltraFusion]

Also I'm going to look into your idea for a dual WAN router, and get my ISP to help me use it in place of the Huawei integrated router - and then set up an router bridge connected to my neighbor which would be LAN cabled to the 2nd WAN input of the dual WAN router -- and then keep my fingers crossed ...!!

 

[UltraFusion]

Sounding more and more to me like the dual WAN router is the way to go !!

Can't thank you enough !!

 

[bill001g]

Dual wan "mostly" works. The big problem is what does "down" mean. Obviously if you unplug a ethernet cable it will switch but in most cases the ethernet that goes to a modem will stay up even if you unplug the fiber from the modem.

Many dual wan routers ping some internet ip to check. But how much loss is too much and you should switch. For example you will get some small loss to your neighbors house on wifi.

I have always used merlin on asus to do this but asus may have moved some of the dual wan features from merlin into the base software.

Be aware your wan ip is going to change. You applications need to tolerate this. If this was a web browser you would likely have to relog in and you likely get captchas. Hard to say what impact it will have in your case.

Lots and lots of details to worry about when you try to get fancy.

Note if you want to go crazy and run 2 vpn tunnels and run routing protocols you can get seemless switch over and even hide the IP address issue.

 

[UltraFusion]

Yikes - OK, I'm kinda following this but only narrowly averting info overload. I've thought of two other approaches to manage when my condo wifi network goes down. Not particularly very high tech or elegant but maybe a more sensible approach. 1) I'm going to find an IT guy (who speaks both Spanish and English) near the condo and, when necessary, pay him to manage getting the condo wifi back up and running asap and/or 2) use a wifi extender, connect it to my neighbor's wifi, and install a new /different air/cond remote control/monitor (only about $50) and set it up to talk with the neighbor's SSID/PW. That way when my wifi fails I'll at least be able to control the A/C and dehumidifier, until my network gets back on line.
Thanks again for helping me think my way though this process and teaching me a few of the (terrifying) intricacies of wifi routing ...
Cheers and very best.

 

[faalin]

This is the front half of our network rack at work. The top silver box is our Dream Machine SE, the red arrow points to our comcast line that comes from their modem, the yellow arrow is from Metronet that comes from their modem. Since having this setup, Metronet has only gone down once on their end for maintenance and the Dream Machine failed over to comcast right away. Once metronet came back up it switched back over. The third cable in that little corner is my LAN port the goes down to the next box which is a 8 port switch.

In your case you would plug your modem in to one of the ports ( lets say the Metronet port) and then the bridge to your neighbor into the other port ( Comcast port).

https://imgur.com/a/sNtWb19

View: https://imgur.com/a/sNtWb19