Question Will an MSI Z270 A Pro light up with a good PSU and nothing else ?

[chmedly]

Nothing at all lights up on the motherboard.

This machine was running when I went to bed. In the morning it was off. Pushing the power button didn't turn it on. I removed all the video cards, RAM etc and hooked a different power supply to it. Nothing at all lights up on the motherboard. There is a set of debug lights on the motherboard and the manual suggests that various lights will indicate CPU etc problems but nothing at all lights up. I tested the original power supply with a paper clip and measure 5v and 12v coming up on an ATA connector. I've tried shorting directly at the power button header. No response from the motherboard.

It seems to me that if I have a good power supply and operational board, that I should see at least something lighting up on the motherboard when I push the power button - right ?

MSI support seems to want me to go back and check my work. Since then I've tried another CPU in the board and still no lights at all.

 

[Aeacus]

original power supply

Make and model (or part number) is?

with a paper clip and measure 5v and 12v coming up on an ATA connector

Paperclip test doesn't tell if PSU is good. All it does, is turning it on, without putting any load on it.

It's like when you turn the car on, but doesn't test drive it. Instead, you assume that the car drives fine, just because you got the engine running.

I should see at least something lighting up on the motherboard when I push the power button.

If the MoBo is dead (which it most likely is), there is no guarantee that you have to see any lights, when turning the PC on.

 

[DRagor]

It seems to me that if I have a good power supply and operational board, that I should see at least something lighting up on the motherboard when I push the power button. Is this true?

Depends on board - new models will not start without CPU for example. But Z270 is old enough to actually turn on with just PSU connected. If you get no signs of life there (assuming you have known working PSU) then it is reasonable to consider it dead board.

 

[Aeacus]

if I have a good power supply

And here's the question: IF you have good PSU. But if not, then what? Hence why i asked what PSU you have.

then it is reasonable to consider it dead board.

Yes. However, it is possible that it was the PSU that killed the MoBo (since most of the times, it's PSU that has killed MoBo) and even OP isn't sure that they have a good PSU.

So, when OP goes with new MoBo, but keeps using the same PSU, PSU can kill the new MoBo as well.

 

[chmedly]

Oh! New posts!

I'm not hovering over the machine at the moment and can't remember the brand/model of the PSU mounted in the case. But I DID grab a Corsair (RM 1000??) and plugged it into the ATX and CPU sockets on the motherboard just before I posted my OP. Now, that Corsair powder supply isn't or hasn't been tested in a long time so it could be faulty but seems unlikely that both powder supplies would give me the same nothingness. I'll grab a 3rd PSU in a few days and do one more test.

Thanks for the affirmation that the MOBO should do something when the power button is pressed!

 

[chmedly]

It's like when you turn the car on, but doesn't test drive it. Instead, you assume that the car drives fine, just because you got the engine running.

Well, in this case it does indeed seem like I can't even get the engine running. There is no sign of life whatsoever.

 

[Aeacus]

Well, in this case it does indeed seem like I can't even get the engine running. There is no sign of life whatsoever.

This applies to the PSU and paperclip test you did with it. Paperclip test doesn't show you that PSU is capable of powering the PC. All it does, is turning it on.

that the MOBO should do something

Neither I or DRagor said that MoBo "should" do anything when powered on. When MoBo works, it will light up. But if it doesn't, there is no guarantee that you have to see some lights on it turning on.
Sometimes, you'll get whole MoBo to light up, but you'd be either stuck in POST loop or there is no display at all. Other times, there is 0 life out of MoBo, despite being powered on. So, assuming that MoBo should always do something, is wrong.

Your best bet is to RMA the MoBo and for good measure, also replace the original (still unknown PSU to us), as well. Since chances are good, it was the PSU that fried the MoBo. Though, it could've been brownout, blackout or power spike as well, that happened in main electricity grid. In this case, UPS will prevent all issues that may come from electrical grid.

 

[chmedly]

Thank you for your insight. But I'm still a little confused about what that insight is.

When MoBo works, it will light up.

Ok, great! I got my answer.

Other times, there is 0 life out of MoBo, despite being powered on.

OR... maybe I don't have an answer??

I think that what you are trying to say is "With your particular model of motherboard, I don't honestly know if it will light up without a working CPU and RAM installed."

What I heard from DRagor was

But Z270 is old enough to actually turn on with just PSU connected.

I took that as a direct answer to my question. (And I got a chuckle out of the use of the word "old" to describe a computer built 5 years ago. I meant to direct my comment about affirmation toward their comment but, as is often the case, my words failed.

Again, I DO appreciate your comments. I wholeheartedly agree that a powder supply can be a tricky thing to troubleshoot (I haven't even heard any talk yet about making sure that I measure voltage at each individual rail) and that it's easy to assume too much. Which is why I wanted opinion about whether this board should at least light some LED or spin some fan when I apply power with or without a CPU and RAM installed. If I can confirm this is true, then I can take the step of verifying the powder supply. If the board won't light up without a CPU or RAM then I have more variables at play.

So, if I'm counting votes, it seems I have a single yes and single no. These cancel each other out? I suppose, as you said, the best thing to do is to send it back to MSI and see what they determine.

Lastly, I wanted to mention that I had 3 other computers running on that power circuit at the time that this machine failed. None of them appeared to restart or power off etc.

 

[DRagor]

The truth is this things vary by motherboard model. For example some of them had standby LED that would light up as soon as PSU is connected and turned on. Now, it does not mean the mobo works if it lights up, but on the other hand if the mobo has such LED and it does not light up that is the strong clue mobo might be dead. Don't know if your model has it or no.
Other trick was to connect single fan (usually to CPU header but should not matter). Once the board is turned on the fan should start up too (even if for a moment). Again, if it does not that's a clue for dead board.

A side note about calling board old: I would call only last generation as new, everything else is pretty much old. So now 12th gen is new, your 7th gen board is 5 generations old. In PC world 5 years is a lot.
And it is definitely not a matter of voting. All we do is give you a knowledge to do proper tests yourself to determine where the problem is since we can't touch and see your parts.

 

[Aeacus]

I see that there is confusion and i'll try to clear it up.

You said that MoBo should light up, regardless if it is working fine or is dead.

I sad that if MoBo is dead, there is no guarantee that it has to light up. It may light up, or it may not. Meaning that one should not expect their dead MoBo to light up.

And on the same note: when MoBo does light up, it doesn't mean it is working. There are plenty of builds out there, that light up, fans spin etc, but there is no display and/or users can't get past POST.

I hope this cleared the confusion.

Lastly, I wanted to mention that I had 3 other computers running on that power circuit at the time that this machine failed. None of them appeared to restart or power off etc.

Not all PSUs are created equal. For example, ATX PSU standard specifies that all PSUs should have at least 16ms of hold-up time (time the PSU is able to power the PC, without shutting the PC down). Now, cheaper/poorly made PSUs struggle to keep up with ATX PSU standard and their hold-up time may be 8ms, while on the other end, high quality PSUs, e.g my Seasonic SSR-650TD (review), has 35.3ms of hold-up time. More than twice what ATX PSU standard asks for.

So, when there was a tiny power loss, let's say 14ms, i could assume (since i don't know what PSUs you're using), that 3 out of 4 PSUs you have, have hold-up time 16ms or longer, while the one that failed, has hold-up time less. Hence why only one build, out of 4, shut down.

 

[chmedly]

I see that there is confusion and i'll try to clear it up.

You said that MoBo should light up, regardless if it is working fine or is dead.

You're right, there's definitely some confusion.

Here's what I wrote in my original post...

It seems to me that if I have a good power supply and operational board, that I should see at least something lighting up on the motherboard when I push the power button. Is this true?

I never intended to ask if a faulty motherboard should light up. Actually the opposite. I wanted to know IF I could confirm that the board is faulty without having to confirm that the CPU and RAM are not faulty.

This motherboard has Debug lights on it. It seems that I should see a light if the CPU, RAM or Display is not connected.

image of manual showing debug table

 

[Aeacus]

IF I could confirm that the board is faulty without having to confirm that the CPU and RAM are not faulty.

Without testing CPU and RAM in 2nd, compatible PC, you can not rule out CPU and/or RAM being dead as well.

Here, it is possible that whatever happened with your PC, it is likely that there was some issue with power/PSU, and if PSU caused your MoBo to die, you also need to consider that PSU is capable of frying everything it is connected to.

Also, i'm still wondering what that "original PSU" was/is. Though, you still haven't told us what it is. I wonder why?

This motherboard has Debug lights on it. It seems that I should see a light if the CPU, RAM or Display is not connected.

Yes, all MoBos have those debug LEDs. However, them showing false positive is also quite common.

For example:
CPU debug LED says that MoBo can't detect CPU or CPU is dead. But that doesn't mean that the issue is with CPU actually. What it means, is MoBo can't use CPU and the issue can be in the MoBo as well.

Of course, you don't see any debug LEDs, so, this doesn't help you. But it's something to keep in mind.

 

[chmedly]

Also, i'm still wondering what that "original PSU" was/is. Though, you still haven't told us what it is. I wonder why?

Because I'm trying to do too many things at once and haven't gotten to it yet.

But, I just wandered past the bone yard and took a quick pic of the PS. It's an ATNG ATA-800FB-B. Not sure if that's a turd or a badge. (I'm not a gamer) I think I have a couple more powder supplies I can test with in a couple days. I'll be sure to come back with some reports.

Btw, I didn't spec, build or buy this machine. It's kind of a hand me down. I've been using it mostly as a video editing machine for a couple months and was happy that the mobo could accept a 22110 NVMe drive that I added.

 

[Aeacus]

ATNG ATA-800FB-B

Based on the PSU industry expert, JonnyGuru, that PSU is similar to older Corsair CX series. He says "decent" about it.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...read.php?15499-ATNG-ATA-800FB-B-Good-Bad-Junk

Still, there have been several cases where Corsair CX has acted up and even fried some hardware.

With this, i'm leaning heavily towards PSU issue and i think the PSU was the one that blew your MoBo.

Btw, I didn't spec, build or buy this machine. It's kind of a hand me down.

Yes, but what stopped you to open it up and replace PSU with better quality unit? So that you can be safe that PC works for years to come. Or do you not know that the PSU is the most important component inside the PC?